wisdom on Epic powers (snipe/aoe)

[DarknessEternal]

What is the conventional wisdom, or just your personal opinion, on when a snipe or targeted AoE from the Epic pool should be used?

 

They conflict with the Assassin's charge accrual, so when do people like to use them?

[Omega-202]

AoEs (BL and FB) work well as openers in group play to get the 50% crit from Hide or as a follow-up to AS in target rich environments, again to take advantage of the crit boost from the Hide proc in AS.  But they're also pretty quick, so slotting them in mid chain usually doesn't ruin your stack building.  If I'm teaming and surrounded, I often just hit my AoE on cooldown.

 

Snipes are quick enough that they can be used mid chain and usually not ruin stack building, or they can be used after AS to utilize the re-Hide proc, unless your primary has a better attack to utilize it.  

 

Both work great to tag runners.  

Edited June 30, 2021 by Omega-202

[tidge]

I can offer my attitude; I can't say if it is 'conventional' or 'wise'. My attitude is based on the primary/secondary combinations that I've chosen. Mileage may vary with other choices.

 

My Stalkers (and Scrappers) ALWAYS take a Snipe. The Snipe serves a few different purposes for my playstyle:

• I almost always have the Kismet +Accuracy (really +ToHit) piece in Hide; Hide is almost always toggled on; the +6% from the piece boosts the (Fast) Snipe damage (there is a cap of the boost from +ToHit which is otherwise easy to reach but not easy to maintain - from team buffs, Build Up, etc.) Slow snipes don't get a bonus from +ToHit.
• The extra ranged attack is a useful part of the attack chain, especially if debuffed enemies begin to scatter.

I rarely open with the Snipe; as a matter of practicality: the nerf to the range of Fast Snipes has limited the utility of the Snipes for me. Some enemies run VERY FAR, VERY FAST so I would use the Snipe to tag those runners. I also used to use the (Fast) Snipe on the NEXT enemy spawn not just to 'ping' a target but to keep me from going into Hide 'too quickly' if I was worried about DPA with the Assassin's Strike.

 

My Stalkers have never taken an Epic/Patron AoE power. To the first order, I am focused on the melee performance of my Stalkers. I can believe that there are circumstances of play and concepts of characters that would lend themselves to some sort of AoE. I can also appreciate that players coming from other ATs may really miss not having MOAR AoE.

 

Finally, for my own approach and builds for Stalkers/Scrappers it is typically the case that I have any 'extra' slots that can be invested in an Epic/Patron AoE. As a practical matter: for those AT if I have ANY extra enhancement slots above the level 35 power (when I typically take the Snipe) those slots will be used in Defense or Resistance powers for mules or set bonuses.

[Bopper]

19 minutes ago, tidge said:

My Stalkers have never taken an Epic/Patron AoE power

I would recommend trying out an AoE (like Ball Lightning). The 5% chance to recharge build up has a chance to trigger on all enemies hit. So if you hit 10 targets, you're looking at 40% chance to recharge your build up. Between my Ball Lightning and Power Crash, I can frequently get two stacks of build up going and help mow down trash

[DarknessEternal]

Can ATOs go in epic powers?

[Rathulfr]

Just now, DarknessEternal said:

Can ATOs go in epic powers?

 

AFAIK, no, I think they can only be slotted in an AT's primary or secondary powers.  But I could be wrong, as I'm not familiar with every ATO nor every Epic pool power.

 

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, DarknessEternal said:

Can ATOs go in epic powers?

No, but the Build Up proc is a global proc.  Slot it in a primary power and it adds the proc chance to every one of your attacks.  

 

I can confirm what Bopper said.  Hitting a group with BL and a primary AoE in quick succession is basically a guaranteed BU recharge.  You can get some absurd BU up time that way, basically approaching perma BU (which also means high uptime on your Gaussian's proc slotted in BU) sometimes having double BU plus a Gaussians active at once.  

Edited June 30, 2021 by Omega-202

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

I would recommend trying out an AoE (like Ball Lightning). The 5% chance to recharge build up has a chance to trigger on all enemies hit. So if you hit 10 targets, you're looking at 40% chance to recharge your build up. Between my Ball Lightning and Power Crash, I can frequently get two stacks of build up going and help mow down trash

 

With an appropriate character concept, I will always consider such things. As I wrote, after level 35 my Stalker builds are usually really tight for slots, and I (as at matter of personal preference) dislike having 'too many' attacks, balanced against having as smooth as possible attack chains across almost all levels. There is certainly a lot of fun content at 40+, but I'm not likely to go out of my way to %proc on an Epic AoE ranged attack just because I can.... even if 

 

Obviously I'm not required to invest many slots in something like Ball Lightning (perhaps not even Accuracy), but if my melee AT character is going to be throwing attacks, I would prefer the game to display damage.  Otherwise, I'm more likely to make power choices and slot investments that scale to much lower content than for which such a Patron power would be available.

 

Having written all that, I definitely have a character concept that could fit with more Epic/Patron AoE so I'm not taking it off the table.

[drbuzzard]

I've come to be pretty fond of exploding shuriken. The pool has an endurance boost power, and the DPAS of exploding shuriken is amazing for an AOE. It would be a good attack if it were single target even. 

[Hew]

14 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

I've come to be pretty fond of exploding shuriken. The pool has an endurance boost power, and the DPAS of exploding shuriken is amazing for an AOE. It would be a good attack if it were single target even. 

I have actually become fond of this, and like it more than the "meta" zapp/bl, or moonbeam.

[SwitchFade]

For most stalker primary sets, if you plan on min/maxing, epic attacks will lower DPS, generally. Most stalker primaries, with 170% recharge will have an attack chain that yields highest DPA with the attacks from the primary. 

 

That said, with recharge at 140% or lower, an epic snipe can increase DPS slightly, give some range flexibility and you may just find it fun.

Edited July 8, 2021 by SwitchFade