How the "Proc" IOs work now?

[Omnicron]

I see where it says something like "This effect will activate roughly 2 times per minute". I don't recall this from when the game was live. So how does this work?

 

I remember I used to make "Proctrops", adding a ton of proc effects to my caltrops, which boosted their damage significantly against clustered foes. Will this no longer work like I want it to?

[Blastit]

Proc IOs now have their specific chance to proc adjusted depending on the cooldown of the power, so that they will average out to one proc per so-and-so period of time regardless of how you use it. They no longer hugely benefit quickly recharging attacks or rain-style powers. For better and for worse.

[Gobbledygook]

What about things like the Performance Shifter Proc? Does that still work as it used to?

[Riverdusk]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

[Chance Jackson]

Proc IOs now have their specific chance to proc adjusted depending on the cooldown of the power, so that they will average out to one proc per so-and-so period of time regardless of how you use it. They no longer hugely benefit quickly recharging attacks or rain-style powers. For better and for worse.

isi t worthless to put these in caltrops now?

[Gobbledygook]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

 

Yeah, I see what you were trying to do there, and I appreciate it, but I have no concept of math, soooo, yeah,lol.

[Clave Dark 5]

Proc IOs now have their specific chance to proc adjusted depending on the cooldown of the power, so that they will average out to one proc per so-and-so period of time regardless of how you use it. They no longer hugely benefit quickly recharging attacks or rain-style powers. For better and for worse.

isi t worthless to put these in caltrops now?

From what I was skimming on the wiki, it seems so, if that change has made it over to Homecoming's live.  Which is a crying shame for caltrops enthusiasts such as myself.

[Marshal_General]

I hope this doesn't dash my plan to put several damage procs into my cone immobilize for my controller.

[Omnicron]

Proc IOs now have their specific chance to proc adjusted depending on the cooldown of the power, so that they will average out to one proc per so-and-so period of time regardless of how you use it. They no longer hugely benefit quickly recharging attacks or rain-style powers. For better and for worse.

isi t worthless to put these in caltrops now?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. None of the documentation I've seen really spells out how it behaves in a pseudopet like caltrops or rain of fire and such. However, it's reasonable to assume the proc chance on those powers is based on the frequency at which the pseudopet pulses its attack rather than the cooldown of the power itself (as it if were an auto-power or a toggle as opposed to a click) and you'd have to account for the AoE factor, which means you need the radius of the power. I don't know where to find that information for caltrops, but it looks about the same as most PBAoE powers, 15 feet, which means it has an "area factor" of 2.25. So in other words, if you have more than 2 guys in your caltrops patch, your proc is going to overperform compared to a single target power. If you're able to pack really impressive numbers of enemies into your caltrops, your proc is going to massively overperform.

[Omnicron]

I did some testing with thorntrops today. Slotted 3 different procs in it: Positron's Energy Damage, Annihilation's -Res and Impeded Swiftness' Smashing Damage.

 

Results were interesting.

 

So as to whether it calculates like a click or like an auto-power in terms of the proc algorithm: it seems to be both, kind of. When you toss out the caltrops initially you get one very high chance to get a proc right away on the first tick of the power, probably based on the cooldown of caltrops. Subsequent ticks of caltrops damage CAN proc as well, but the chance seems to be quite low, likely based on the time between caltrop's damage ticks.

 

I've concluded caltrops and power like it are good choices for proc powers based on my testing, espectially if you like to use it on hordes of enemies.

[jslfrombx]

I wanted to make my own proc thread but there is this one, I might as well use it, sorry if this feel like highjacking the thread. So I tried using some proc in my power last night and result was VERY disappointing, so either I completely didn't understand the proc per minute explanation on the wiki or I am missing a parameter somewhere.

 

The power I tested on is soul storm on the ghost widow patron pool, it's a single target mag 3 hold, i slotted with the Hold proc from the devastation set for single target damage power. The idea was that with a mag 3 on the power and a mag 2 on the proc it would one tap hold boss until my demon prince can switch target and cast his own hold power on the boss, the two of us can keep a boss held forever, so it was just a safeguard , you know for the time you open a door and face yourself 3 meters away from a boss.

on paper it seemed like a nice idea since the proc has a 3 ppm and soul storm has a base cooldown of 32 sec, so should be 100% chance to proc.

 

 

After dying countless time I can say, it doesn't work, almost never work to hold boss, at first I thought that maybe the proc hold and innate hold of the power don't stack, and I was quite pissed if such a rules exist it is not stated everywhere, until it did works once, then not again .

 

i'd say it hold a boss for 8 sec(the duration of the proc) about 10% of the times, so now I am super confused as to what's happening, do the proc have their own accuracy check maybe?  Or is it because soul storm is a dot so it screw up te proc chance math ?If anyone has any idea of what's happening, i'd like to knw

[Omnicron]

I wanted to make my own proc thread but there is this one, I might as well use it, sorry if this feel like highjacking the thread. So I tried using some proc in my power last night and result was VERY disappointing, so either I completely didn't understand the proc per minute explanation on the wiki or I am missing a parameter somewhere.

 

The power I tested on is soul storm on the ghost widow patron pool, it's a single target mag 3 hold, i slotted with the Hold proc from the devastation set for single target damage power. The idea was that with a mag 3 on the power and a mag 2 on the proc it would one tap hold boss until my demon prince can switch target and cast his own hold power on the boss, the two of us can keep a boss held forever, so it was just a safeguard , you know for the time you open a door and face yourself 3 meters away from a boss.

on paper it seemed like a nice idea since the proc has a 3 ppm and soul storm has a base cooldown of 32 sec, so should be 100% chance to proc.

 

 

After dying countless time I can say, it doesn't work, almost never work to hold boss, at first I thought that maybe the proc hold and innate hold of the power don't stack, and I was quite pissed if such a rules exist it is not stated everywhere, until it did works once, then not again .

 

i'd say it hold a boss for 8 sec(the duration of the proc) about 10% of the times, so now I am super confused as to what's happening, do the proc have their own accuracy check maybe?  Or is it because soul storm is a dot so it screw up te proc chance math ?If anyone has any idea of what's happening, i'd like to knw

 

The proc should show up in your combat menu when it goes off, did you check to see if it was triggering? Is mag 5 enough to hold a boss? I know on my dominator a mag 3 immobilize and a mag 2 immobilize often don't do the trick.

[Mr. Vee]

Have you tried the lockdown chance for +2 mag hold one? Might be worth a test to see if it works any better. Presumably it would only try to proc on the hold rather than the dots, though I'm just guessing. I'm as if not more clueless than the next noob on the new proc stuff.

[KelvinKole]

I'snt there also internal cooldowns on the proc? Meaning when it does go off there is a period of suppression where it can't trigger again even if the power it is slotted in has recahrged?

 

I thought that was the way Force Feedback worked, but an seeking confirmation and that one and others.

[kingsmidgens]

I do not believe there's an internal cooldown.  Let's say a Stalker for instance instantly recharges their buildup, which has the Boost Up proc in it.  You'll two-stack Boost Up, by using Build Up two times in a row.  This can happen in roughly 2 seconds, so if there is an internal CD it's much shorter than other sort of timers that I am aware of.

 

In fact- I recall when the Overwhelming Force proc came out (KB->KD one) it was essentially broken in Bonfire, as that checked so frequently for KB that enemies would be knocked down again BEFORE they hit the ground.  That was, as I recall, sort of the inspiration for PPM, as they quickly nerfed it for a lot of powers and took a pass at others.  They had just fixed certain proc interactions with other psuedopets, like ice patch caltrops.  They only noticed that when Reactive was applying a DoT tick immediately upon application, and had an obscene proc rate on Pseudopets, ignoring their intended global stack limit, as fresh applications immediately did damage - and did was capable of an absurd amount of damage.

[Rumors]

I have a question along these lines, how does this work in AoE powers?  Especially long cooldown ones, like Rad Emission EMP Pulse or blaster nukes?  Will it roll against all the mobs?  Only roll up to the 1-2 or whatever per minute?  Or will only one lucky victim get procced?

[kingsmidgens]

I have a question along these lines, how does this work in AoE powers?

Debuffs/damage are nerfed considerably. 

 

They're balanced to where I believe on average you may get more procs total, but since you're not always hitting Max targets, the overall effectiveness is essentially reduced.. Especially when you're on that one final stubborn boss or AV.  Essentially, the proc rate considers the amount of targets you could hit, not how many you do hit.

 

Buffs I believe do not differentiate between AoE or not and go exclusively on recharge and animation times.

[jslfrombx]

Damn, I had completly forgotten the lockdown set existed, I usually dismiss it because it used to be a really low proc chance,but with ppm mechanics and since soul storm is a patron power it has such a long recharge that even a 2ppm proc should have a 100% chance to activate, i'll try it as soon as I can buy one, hopefully should be much more reliable. Thanks a lot for reminding me.

 

 

[Chance Jackson]

I wanted to make my own proc thread but there is this one, I might as well use it, sorry if this feel like highjacking the thread. So I tried using some proc in my power last night and result was VERY disappointing, so either I completely didn't understand the proc per minute explanation on the wiki or I am missing a parameter somewhere.

 

The power I tested on is soul storm on the ghost widow patron pool, it's a single target mag 3 hold, i slotted with the Hold proc from the devastation set for single target damage power. The idea was that with a mag 3 on the power and a mag 2 on the proc it would one tap hold boss until my demon prince can switch target and cast his own hold power on the boss, the two of us can keep a boss held forever, so it was just a safeguard , you know for the time you open a door and face yourself 3 meters away from a boss.

on paper it seemed like a nice idea since the proc has a 3 ppm and soul storm has a base cooldown of 32 sec, so should be 100% chance to proc.

 

 

After dying countless time I can say, it doesn't work, almost never work to hold boss, at first I thought that maybe the proc hold and innate hold of the power don't stack, and I was quite pissed if such a rules exist it is not stated everywhere, until it did works once, then not again .

 

i'd say it hold a boss for 8 sec(the duration of the proc) about 10% of the times, so now I am super confused as to what's happening, do the proc have their own accuracy check maybe?  Or is it because soul storm is a dot so it screw up te proc chance math ?If anyone has any idea of what's happening, i'd like to knw

i24 nerfed PPM procs in 2 ways:

-90% cap on proc chance

-Modified recharge lowers proc chance(iirc Paragon Studios said they would change this to only work against slotted recharge)

 

Back in I22/23 when ppl were just figuring out what you could do with PPMs there was great experimentation I remember independently realizing I could pack the PPP Hold with 2 hold Procs to hold EBs for about 8 seconds & the chance for buildup proc which had a greater than 51% chance of going off in those holds, it was awesome but  "illusion of progress" is the only kind allowed in MMO game design it too had to be nerfed.

 

That said I hope Leandro/Homecoming team ditch the PPM nerfs & restore the choice between PPM & traditional Procs.