Win the War on Rikti

[A Cat]

5 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

I am deeply offended that you don't count the Primal Devouring Earth as a global threat! In fact, in my interpretation of lore bible readings, the Hydra may have actually sprang out of first-round attempts to make the Devouring Earth, making them likely as old as the Rikti and Freakshow. The Hydra head eerily mirrors the descriptions of early Hamidon in his crucible, discovering the Devouring process for the first time.

Wait. I thought the hydra were from another alternate dimension? You get a badge for going there in one of Tina's missions iirc. 

 

Nvm glacierpeak beat me to it

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by A Cat

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

To what extent do you want to take that, though? I mean, if  we start that line of thinking for an advanced, high-tech enemy proven to have biotech and portal technology, why are we still seeing Hellions and Skulls 20-plus issues later? They're not even portrayed as a national threat (like you can imply, say, the Family is - clear out one group, others from Miami move in to keep the business going) much less the level of the Rikti. One or two good concentrated sweeps from all the heroes should clear that right out.

That's one of the weirdnesses that comes from trying to have a storyline and a persistent world and accommodate having a constant stream of new players and new toons.  I mean, "I've" wiped out Chernobog half a dozen times now...  In a single player game, he can stay gone.  In an MMO, what does the individual who came into the game a year after me fight?  You can't infinitely generate new content.

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

That's one of the weirdnesses that comes from trying to have a storyline and a persistent world and accommodate having a constant stream of new players and new toons.  I mean, "I've" wiped out Chernobog half a dozen times now...  In a single player game, he can stay gone.  In an MMO, what does the individual who came into the game a year after me fight?  You can't infinitely generate new content.

Yeah this. I've only seen that type of thing occur with the Aaron Thiery and Matt Hasby arcs, where the player's choices remain in their game, but are not seen in other players unless they agree to take part in "their world."

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

I've only seen that type of thing occur with the Aaron Thiery and Matt Hasby arcs, where the player's choices remain in their game, but are not seen in other players unless they agree to take part in "their world."

That tech was a late introduction to the game...  Who knows where it could have gone or on how large a scale it could/would have been implemented.

[aethereal]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

To what extent do you want to take that, though? I mean, if  we start that line of thinking for an advanced, high-tech enemy proven to have biotech and portal technology, why are we still seeing Hellions and Skulls 20-plus issues later? They're not even portrayed as a national threat (like you can imply, say, the Family is - clear out one group, others from Miami move in to keep the business going) much less the level of the Rikti. One or two good concentrated sweeps from all the heroes should clear that right out.

 

That doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief at all?  I mean, what does it mean " clear all that out" for gangs?  Presumably they get put into the justice system, some of them get back out immediately, some of them serve relatively short sentences and get back out, and they continue to recruit new recruits.

 

Obviously there's a level of artifice necessary for an MMO in how ominipresent the gangs are and how there are multiple violent crimes going on every block of the city 24/7, but the idea of it being impossible to stamp out gangs that can offer their recruits supernatural powers doesn't bother me.

 

And, to be clear, having some Rikti around doesn't bother me either.  It's having this downed mothership in the middle of a US city for 20 years that feels kinda ridiculous.

[Greycat]

11 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

That doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief at all?  I mean, what does it mean " clear all that out" for gangs?  Presumably they get put into the justice system, some of them get back out immediately, some of them serve relatively short sentences and get back out, and they continue to recruit new recruits.

 

Obviously there's a level of artifice necessary for an MMO in how ominipresent the gangs are and how there are multiple violent crimes going on every block of the city 24/7, but the idea of it being impossible to stamp out gangs that can offer their recruits supernatural powers doesn't bother me.

 

And, to be clear, having some Rikti around doesn't bother me either.  It's having this downed mothership in the middle of a US city for 20 years that feels kinda ridiculous.

 

... ok, let's ask this. Why does *that* bother you and not:

 

- Boomtown barely having cranes in it to start reconstruction after just as long? If nothing else (since straightening buildings require time, inspections and money) the *rubble* should be cleared out by now.

- The Hollows still being The Hollows (and yeah, I know, they wanted to have ... part of orenbanga erupt into it, which... *cringe*)

- Arachnos - which you can either view as a foreign army or a terrorist group - having a significant armed presence, including time and supplies to build significant bases in *multiple* points in a US city (Atlas, Faultline, Siren's Call) - and yes, the flip side, Longbow being in Nerva and invading Mercy (though the Isles could frankly label them as terrorists)

 

Of all these, honestly the Rikti mothership still being there is probably the least bothersome. It's a technologically superior (at a baseline) armed group, they've set up defenses and have had shielding around it the full time, they have teleportation technology (and so can bring in supplies, deal with medical issues and the like) - they'd be a much harder nut to crack than "US armed forces + metas vs Arachnos invasion."

 

I'm quite honestly curious where your (and anyone else's) lines are on those.  Of all of them, Arachnos having anything besides an embassy, maybe a company fronting a warehouse that operations are run out of, in sovereign US soil bugs me the most.

[aethereal]

11 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

... ok, let's ask this. Why does *that* bother you and not:

 

- Boomtown barely having cranes in it to start reconstruction after just as long? If nothing else (since straightening buildings require time, inspections and money) the *rubble* should be cleared out by now.

 

That bothers me, but Boomtown also just kind disappears in my experience in the game.  You're reminded that Boomtown exists at all maybe once every three months of playtime.

 

11 minutes ago, Greycat said:

- The Hollows still being The Hollows (and yeah, I know, they wanted to have ... part of orenbanga erupt into it, which... *cringe*)

 

Pretty much the same, maybe it's a little more prominent than Boomtown.

 

11 minutes ago, Greycat said:

- Arachnos - which you can either view as a foreign army or a terrorist group - having a significant armed presence, including time and supplies to build significant bases in *multiple* points in a US city (Atlas, Faultline, Siren's Call) - and yes, the flip side, Longbow being in Nerva and invading Mercy (though the Isles could frankly label them as terrorists)

 

This definitely bothers me!  It'd be on my list to fix, albeit below the RWZ.  However, Arachnos just seems like more of a credible threat than the Rikti to me.  I mean, just to start with, Arachnos mobs are much more dangerous than Rikti mobs.  We also see the many, developed Arachnos supervillains backing up their armed forces.

 

But I think more so, again, the Arachnos bases can kinda disappear into the game experience.  Like, you don't really have to think about the Faultline base once you're no longer dealing with the Faultline arcs.  Siren's Call is like probably the least important zone in the game.  But MSRs happen all the time.  Vanguard is a very prominent organization in the end-game, and its raison d'etre is dealing with the Rikti.  You are personally invited to try (apparently fruitlessly, for decades) to win the war against the Rikti and beat the mothership.  The RWZ zone is just vastly more prominent than Siren's Call.  And at least some of the Arachnos activity is more recent than the Mothership's interminable liminal state.

[Piecemeal]

8 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

This interpretation conflicts with what the in game lore describes for the Hydra's origin. Tina Macintyre's Hydra Multidimensional exploration badge story arc says:

 

"After months of effort, some Portal Corporation techs have managed to isolate the dimension the Hydra comes from."

 

Dr. Steven Sheridan tells us their method of communication in the same arc after completing that mission from Tina:

"Mighty interesting, Character. Mighty interesting indeed. I'll tell you one thing: these Hydra Men aren't the simple blobs of protoplasm we thought they were. In fact, I think this green goop they were covered in is actually their method of communication. Now, mind you, this is only a theory. I think the Hydra communicate through chemical signals. One Hydra Man secretes certain chemicals into that green plasma. Then he touches another, who can instantly 'read' his message. It's quite sophisticated, I assure you. If you'll bear with me for a moment, I believe I can develop a new plasma that will let you understand their chemical signals. Communication will be only one way, but it should give you a better idea of what's going on in that world.

 

The last mission dialog in that arc from Tina tell us that:

 

"the Rikti have been kidnapping Hydra Men from the dimension you visited. Then they bring the creatures back to our world, to help them fight their war against us. I always assumed the Hydra Men were hostile, but maybe they're just confused. Kidnapped, uprooted, stuck on some strange new planet far from their families. No wonder they assume we're all their enemies! It's too bad Dr. Sheridan wasn't able to engineer a way for you to make yourself understood to the Hydra Men; then we could tell them we mean them no harm. But I guess it's best if we just do what they asked of us: leave them alone."

 

This all aligns with my Buckets of Spoilers! Lore Galore! thread:

 

"The Hydra were kidnapped by the Rikti from their home dimension to guard underground bases after the first Rikti Invasion. You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't) (Credit to @Lazarillo)"

 

Per my thread below:

 

 

I'm talking about the lore bible, and how in the development process the alpha DE may have been turned into the Hydra.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

I'm talking about the lore bible, and how in the development process the alpha DE may have been turned into the Hydra.

Oh, I don't have access to that.

[huang3721]

Is the lore bible available for everyone? If it is, does anyone know where to find it?

[Greycat]

There is (was?) a copy online. As well as various AMAs.... not sure if I have a link.

[El D]

Some early Story Bible content was released as a .zip file on Google Drive a while back - link

 

Found it on the Homecoming wiki (under 'Story Bible') and there's also a separate page with links to the Lore AMA stuff

[A Cat]

10 hours ago, El D said:

Some early Story Bible content was released as a .zip file on Google Drive a while back - link

 

Found it on the Homecoming wiki (under 'Story Bible') and there's also a separate page with links to the Lore AMA stuff

Welp. I know what I'm doing for awhile. 

[Triumphant]

19 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

... ok, let's ask this. Why does *that* bother you and not:

 

- Boomtown barely having cranes in it to start reconstruction after just as long? If nothing else (since straightening buildings require time, inspections and money) the *rubble* should be cleared out by now.

- The Hollows still being The Hollows (and yeah, I know, they wanted to have ... part of orenbanga erupt into it, which... *cringe*)

- Arachnos - which you can either view as a foreign army or a terrorist group - having a significant armed presence, including time and supplies to build significant bases in *multiple* points in a US city (Atlas, Faultline, Siren's Call) - and yes, the flip side, Longbow being in Nerva and invading Mercy (though the Isles could frankly label them as terrorists)

 

Of all these, honestly the Rikti mothership still being there is probably the least bothersome. It's a technologically superior (at a baseline) armed group, they've set up defenses and have had shielding around it the full time, they have teleportation technology (and so can bring in supplies, deal with medical issues and the like) - they'd be a much harder nut to crack than "US armed forces + metas vs Arachnos invasion."

 

I'm quite honestly curious where your (and anyone else's) lines are on those.  Of all of them, Arachnos having anything besides an embassy, maybe a company fronting a warehouse that operations are run out of, in sovereign US soil bugs me the most.

 

Well, yes- you have a valid point.  It's all inherently ridiculous, isn't it?  I mean, it's a comic book, after all.  🤷‍♂️