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I really don't like the sniper changes.


ScarySai

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It's the curse of the private server. Some guy gets a bee in his bonnet and doesn't have the intelligence to look at the big picture, but no one wants to rock the boat so they let this guy have his Insta Snipes for everyone, never mind that it throws off the blanace for the entire AT. Ice is no longer significantly better at its one trick, and is pretty much a bottom tier blast choice now.

 

This is basically similar to a beta oran "early access" game now, where changes are just made ona whim because one person feel like it and no one else on the team has the stones to stand up to that person and require a sanity check and an analysis of how the changes are going to inpact the game.

 

They'll claim that they put it on test for feedback...then went ahead and did exactly what they intended to do from the start, regardless of what the players actually wanted.

 

This is what it's like playing a D list game with amateur devs that din't actually know how to build a successful MMO or maintain a thriving MMO community. They'll make all heir little pet peeve changes, the vast majority will move on because it's not the game they once cared about any more. The server runners will keep going until the core group mocves on due toi real life (Full time jobs, marriage and family, etc) and since the community will be just a a skeleton of people that are stuck here due to nostalgia, there won't be anyone to run the servers.

 

Unfortunately, that's the reality of playing an amateur game. 5 years tops and the game will be gone again, this time never to return except for may a rando0m fan run server or two that is up when the guy running it can afford the monthly bill.

 

That's the future of CoH.

 

You went through a lot of trouble and time when you could've just said 'I don't like these changes but I can't think of anything coherent to say about it so I'm going to call people incompetent'.

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It's the curse of the private server. Some guy gets a bee in his bonnet and doesn't have the intelligence to look at the big picture, but no one wants to rock the boat so they let this guy have his Insta Snipes for everyone, never mind that it throws off the blanace for the entire AT. Ice is no longer significantly better at its one trick, and is pretty much a bottom tier blast choice now.

 

I'm gonna leave aside your jeremiad against a group of developers who are working 100% for free, and just address the last line:  Ice has spectacular single-target DPS, for a blast set.  Take a gander at Freeze Ray.  Now load up on recharge and compare a chain of Bitter Ice Blast -> Freeze Ray -> Ice Blast to just about any other ranged attack chain in the game.  Then realize that you can improve it even further, because Ice's attacks can take a high number of procs.

 

And of course, Blizzard is one of the best nukes in the game, given that it's ranged and comes with massive long-duration debuffs (most notably the -ToHit).

 

Fast Snipes won't make Ice suck.  There are other sets that may suffer a little, like Sonic for example, but unconditional fast snipes won't be as strong as you seem to think they will be, with regard to single-target DPS.  The devs are just removing the ToHit condition on an already existing attack, with a moderately high DPA and a fairly long recharge timer, and they're nerfing the damage on it for people with lower ToHit.  As changes go, this is pretty mild.  It's not like every set with a snipe just got their own version of Blaze.

 

(Incidentally, Blaze's DPA will be ~86% higher than Blazing Bolt at its default fast-snipe damage scale, after the patch.)

 

That's the future of CoH.

 

Sounds pretty great compared to the game's outlook 7 years ago. :D

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Hell Fast-Snipes were originally what the game's devs (guess they also were "amateur devs that din't actually know how to build a successful MMO or maintain a thriving MMO community") decided to try to help close the gap between sets that had snipes and sets that had bitter ice blast. The new take on fast/slow snipes refines these changes which due to the game getting shut down were little more than a first-pass at fixing the problem.

 

The changes on beta here were mostly quite positive. Sets cycled smoother, output went up, good stuff.

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So....

 

I have something to get off my chest.

 

The 97% Insta-Snipe never left beta.

 

People keep acting like it's this holy grail that shouldn't be violated, but we're really not sure Paragon Studios ever would've been happy with their implementation either.

 

I really hope Homecoming moves forward with these changes, and soon.  I can't wait to actually get to use Moonbeam in parties.

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Hell Fast-Snipes were originally what the game's devs (guess they also were "amateur devs that din't actually know how to build a successful MMO or maintain a thriving MMO community") decided to try to help close the gap between sets that had snipes and sets that had bitter ice blast. The new take on fast/slow snipes refines these changes which due to the game getting shut down were little more than a first-pass at fixing the problem.

 

The changes on beta here were mostly quite positive. Sets cycled smoother, output went up, good stuff.

 

If you read Captain Troll's history, he thinks the original devs also all sucked and CoH was only fun by accident. Clearly he's the only one qualified to speak on changes.

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I think the To Hit change on live would of ended came to this exact conclusion that we are at now.  The "+To Hit = Perma Snipe" fix was a temporary fix at best.  Once you were against mobs who constantly lowered your To Hit everything was out the window.

 

Oh and I'm trying to be patient but I am far too excited about the Snipe and Dom changes.  I don't know how everyone else is keeping it together but I am going mad with anticipation lmao! *claws at face*

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I think the To Hit change on live would of ended came to this exact conclusion that we are at now.  The "+To Hit = Perma Snipe" fix was a temporary fix at best.  Once you were against mobs who constantly lowered your To Hit everything was out the window.

 

Oh and I'm trying to be patient but I am far too excited about the Snipe and Dom changes.  I don't know how everyone else is keeping it together but I am going mad with anticipation lmao! *claws at face*

 

Sorry Tater I'm not looking forward to this change, unless they're giving us all a thumper blast with the damage snipe is now which ain't happening.  Only /fire's snipe you can't get insta with any real regularity on your own, all other secondaries that have the snipe can adjust and maintain their tohit to frequently be above the threshold, so to me we're just catering to dinosaurs who can't make minor adaptations to have the best of what they can be as it is currently.

 

Feel like they're opening a huge can of worms here.  What of all the other deserving underperforming powersets across all the ATs?  Or are we going to spend some more time nerfing far more unbalanced power sets?

 

I'd much rather see new Control and Secondaries, new strike forces in the vein of Apex and Tin but harder and maybe fully level shifting you, more incarnate powers and trials to use those powers on.  That's what I would be looking forward to had they mentioned getting the ball rolling on some of those things, but we gotta get those snipes nerfed. 

 

I do agree though I'm anticipating what the revamp is going to look like on all the secondaries.  Just hope they don't break anything. 

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I think the To Hit change on live would of ended came to this exact conclusion that we are at now.  The "+To Hit = Perma Snipe" fix was a temporary fix at best.  Once you were against mobs who constantly lowered your To Hit everything was out the window.

 

Oh and I'm trying to be patient but I am far too excited about the Snipe and Dom changes.  I don't know how everyone else is keeping it together but I am going mad with anticipation lmao! *claws at face*

 

Sorry Tater I'm not looking forward to this change, unless they're giving us all a thumper blast with the damage snipe is now which ain't happening.  Only /fire's snipe you can't get insta with any real regularity on your own, all other secondaries that have the snipe can adjust and maintain their tohit to frequently be above the threshold, so to me we're just catering to dinosaurs who can't make minor adaptations to have the best of what they can be as it is currently.

 

Feel like they're opening a huge can of worms here.  What of all the other deserving underperforming powersets across all the ATs?  Or are we going to spend some more time nerfing far more unbalanced power sets?

 

I'd much rather see new Control and Secondaries, new strike forces in the vein of Apex and Tin but harder and maybe fully level shifting you, more incarnate powers and trials to use those powers on.  That's what I would be looking forward to had they mentioned getting the ball rolling on some of those things, but we gotta get those snipes nerfed. 

 

I do agree though I'm anticipating what the revamp is going to look like on all the secondaries.  Just hope they don't break anything.

 

What's a Thumper Blast? 

 

I'm one of those Dinosaurs I'm afraid  :'(.  So how is everyone doing it on Dominators?  I can't figure it out for the life of me.  Dominators are sitting at 75% To Hit at their base and Tactics only adds 9.41% +To Hit and Kismet Accuracy only gives me +6% which equals out to 90.41% +To Hit which is 6.59% shy of Insta Snipe no?  I'm trying to figure out how to do this on my Dark/Dark Dominator btw.  Now to get me to that 97% I can use Accurate To Hit Buff Procs like "Siphon Insight: Chance for +To Hit" which gives me +17 To Hit!  Or I could use the "Gaussian's Fire Control: Chance for Build Up" Proc which gives me a whopping +34% To Hit BUT the big issue here is that you have can't depend on the little golden circle highlight around your Snipe when you actually have enough To Hit.  On my Doms I would see the Golden reticle show only for a split second when the Gaussian proc fired or it would show when the To Hit buff wasn't there.  It came down to server lag + the game showing that I had the +To Hit buff even the my to hit buff window had passed OR not yet arrived (It's not my connection or my computer btw.  I am able to play Elder Scrolls Online with no issue).  That was frustrating and made me not want to bother with using my Snipe.  Keep in mind things get even more frustrating when fighting Circle of Thorns, Tsoo or Banished Pantheon.

 

So the question I have for the Dominator players who get it...who are not Dinosaurs like me how are you constantly getting 97% +To Hit without having to lock yourself into always taking Tactics or a Defense power?  Is there a +To Hit accolade out there?  Or a Day Job that awards a sufficient enough amount of +To Hit?  How do you have space to slot Accurate to hit procs all over the place?  Are you using Incarnate powers to reach that 97% Mark and if so does that mean people should skip their Snipe until lvl 50?

 

 

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So the question I have for the Dominator players who get it...who are not Dinosaurs like me how are you constantly getting 97% +To Hit without having to lock yourself into always taking Tactics or a Defense power?  Is there a +To Hit accolade out there?  Or a Day Job that awards a sufficient enough amount of +To Hit?  How do you have space to slot Accurate to hit procs all over the place?  Are you using Incarnate powers to reach that 97% Mark and if so does that mean people should skip their Snipe until lvl 50?

So I didn't bother to take the Snipe on my Dominator but I figured I'd answer with options anyway.

 

So first off the Tactics + Kismet option that Blasters, Defenders and Corruptors can use doesn't work for Dominators. Base Tactics is 7.5% for Dominators which is insufficient for Perma-Snipe. However Dominators can get Mind Link and Tactics + Kismet + Mind Link is sufficient to get to 22.1% (assuming 3 SO equivalents in Tactics and Mind Link). Side Note: Power Boost doesn't affect Mind Link, Pine's is wrong in that regard.

 

Now there are a few other options that don't require building for Perma-Mind Link. Tactics + Kismet gets you close enough that a small Yellow will put you over the cap. Sure it's not permanent but for solo play you have plenty of inspirations so using yellows (and converting spare inspirations to yellows) isn't that difficult.

 

Also while Power Boost doesn't affect Mind Link it does affect Tactics so Tactics + Kismet + Power Boost will give you 15 seconds of fast snipe which should be enough to get two snipes off.

 

Finally if you stick the Gaussian proc in Tactics it will go off about once a minute so you can fast snipe when that happens.

Defender Smash!

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So the question I have for the Dominator players who get it...who are not Dinosaurs like me how are you constantly getting 97% +To Hit without having to lock yourself into always taking Tactics or a Defense power?  Is there a +To Hit accolade out there?  Or a Day Job that awards a sufficient enough amount of +To Hit?  How do you have space to slot Accurate to hit procs all over the place?  Are you using Incarnate powers to reach that 97% Mark and if so does that mean people should skip their Snipe until lvl 50?

So I didn't bother to take the Snipe on my Dominator but I figured I'd answer with options anyway.

 

So first off the Tactics + Kismet option that Blasters, Defenders and Corruptors can use doesn't work for Dominators. Base Tactics is 7.5% for Dominators which is insufficient for Perma-Snipe. However Dominators can get Mind Link and Tactics + Kismet + Mind Link is sufficient to get to 22.1% (assuming 3 SO equivalents in Tactics and Mind Link). Side Note: Power Boost doesn't affect Mind Link, Pine's is wrong in that regard.

 

Now there are a few other options that don't require building for Perma-Mind Link. Tactics + Kismet gets you close enough that a small Yellow will put you over the cap. Sure it's not permanent but for solo play you have plenty of inspirations so using yellows (and converting spare inspirations to yellows) isn't that difficult.

 

Also while Power Boost doesn't affect Mind Link it does affect Tactics so Tactics + Kismet + Power Boost will give you 15 seconds of fast snipe which should be enough to get two snipes off.

 

Finally if you stick the Gaussian proc in Tactics it will go off about once a minute so you can fast snipe when that happens.

 

That just sounds....AWFUL and Restrictive.  I knew about the yellows helping with To Hit but that's not guaranteed 100%.

 

So why do people think this current way of using Snipe is ideal on Dominators again?  OR are most folks only speaking from a non Dominator viewpoint?

 

I'm like you Adeon I just end up skipping my Snipe on most Dominators.

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Well you do have to go with Leadership pool, but why wouldn't you?  You can get two LotG mules in maneuvers and vengeance which vengeance is a great teaming power.  On top of that tactics makes everything you aim at the targets that much more effective since you'll be able to hit with better regularity. 

 

On my Mind/Dark dominator I have tactics 6 slotted with top level Gaussian set for the bonuses.  Also the kismet in weave, but you could slot that into any defensive power you might have, heck even maneuvers.  Nothing wrong with having SOME defense power active to help mitigate incoming damage.  So right there I'm ALMOST insta-snipe capable but not quite.  BUT your Gather Shadows boosts secondary effects so something like tactics gets boosted for 10 seconds so I can get off two insta snipes in that time.  Gather Shadows is only down for like 20-25 seconds before I can get that boost again.  Also re-clicking domination gives you a tohit boost for 10 seconds.  So as you can see there's plenty of ways to have insta snipe whenever I want it.  Teamed with one other person with tactics lets you snipe for days. 

 

Most dom secondaries have a Power Boost, Aim, Build Up or Envenom Blades that can all squeeze you above the tohit threshold with regularity.  Yes you'll have to go leadership but aside from taking hasten you can still get variety out of the rest of your builds.  I have presence pool as my last one for pete's sake. 

 

Yes this is dumbing it down for all the dinosaurs not willing to go with tactics like there isn't still variety to be had in your builds.  I'm not opposed to the changes since adding tohit back up gets your damage back up which you'll still then want to pick up tactics.  This change is a nothing burger for Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders and even /fire doms like they don't already do fantastic damage in comparison to other doms.  But Dominators, Stalkers and Scrappers are having their snipes damage nerfed harshly which I do take issue with on my Dominator being that who cares that it recharges slightly faster for such a damage nerf which the recharge change is counter intuitive to the secondary.

 

So on the outside it must look like we're arguing the change for everyone which I'm not.  It's the damage nerf to dominators specifically I take issue with since they're lumping this change in with the tohit change. 

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Well you do have to go with Leadership pool, but why wouldn't you?  You can get two LotG mules in maneuvers and vengeance which vengeance is a great teaming power.  On top of that tactics makes everything you aim at the targets that much more effective since you'll be able to hit with better regularity. 

 

On my Mind/Dark dominator I have tactics 6 slotted with top level Gaussian set for the bonuses.  Also the kismet in weave, but you could slot that into any defensive power you might have, heck even maneuvers.  Nothing wrong with having SOME defense power active to help mitigate incoming damage.  So right there I'm ALMOST insta-snipe capable but not quite.  BUT your Gather Shadows boosts secondary effects so something like tactics gets boosted for 10 seconds so I can get off two insta snipes in that time.  Gather Shadows is only down for like 20-25 seconds before I can get that boost again.  Also re-clicking domination gives you a tohit boost for 10 seconds.  So as you can see there's plenty of ways to have insta snipe whenever I want it.  Teamed with one other person with tactics lets you snipe for days. 

 

Most dom secondaries have a Power Boost, Aim, Build Up or Envenom Blades that can all squeeze you above the tohit threshold with regularity.  Yes you'll have to go leadership but aside from taking hasten you can still get variety out of the rest of your builds.  I have presence pool as my last one for pete's sake. 

 

Yes this is dumbing it down for all the dinosaurs not willing to go with tactics like there isn't still variety to be had in your builds.  I'm not opposed to the changes since adding tohit back up gets your damage back up which you'll still then want to pick up tactics.  This change is a nothing burger for Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders and even /fire doms like they don't already do fantastic damage in comparison to other doms.  But Dominators, Stalkers and Scrappers are having their snipes damage nerfed harshly which I do take issue with on my Dominator being that who cares that it recharges slightly faster for such a damage nerf which the recharge change is counter intuitive to the secondary.

 

So on the outside it must look like we're arguing the change for everyone which I'm not.  It's the damage nerf to dominators specifically I take issue with since they're lumping this change in with the tohit change.

 

I just wish the Snipes worked without any outside help like all of the other powers in our powersets.  I understand your frustration but I'm not going to Boo the Devs yet until I see the future Dominator changes... If I don't like them I shall Boo them accordingly lol.

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I think the To Hit change on live would of ended came to this exact conclusion that we are at now.  The "+To Hit = Perma Snipe" fix was a temporary fix at best.  Once you were against mobs who constantly lowered your To Hit everything was out the window.

 

Oh and I'm trying to be patient but I am far too excited about the Snipe and Dom changes.  I don't know how everyone else is keeping it together but I am going mad with anticipation lmao! *claws at face*

 

Sorry Tater I'm not looking forward to this change, unless they're giving us all a thumper blast with the damage snipe is now which ain't happening.  Only /fire's snipe you can't get insta with any real regularity on your own, all other secondaries that have the snipe can adjust and maintain their tohit to frequently be above the threshold, so to me we're just catering to dinosaurs who can't make minor adaptations to have the best of what they can be as it is currently.

 

Feel like they're opening a huge can of worms here.  What of all the other deserving underperforming powersets across all the ATs?  Or are we going to spend some more time nerfing far more unbalanced power sets?

 

I'd much rather see new Control and Secondaries, new strike forces in the vein of Apex and Tin but harder and maybe fully level shifting you, more incarnate powers and trials to use those powers on.  That's what I would be looking forward to had they mentioned getting the ball rolling on some of those things, but we gotta get those snipes nerfed. 

 

I do agree though I'm anticipating what the revamp is going to look like on all the secondaries.  Just hope they don't break anything.

 

-Forced power picks (leadership, a patron pool, even?!)

-Required mastery of the IO system

 

There is nothing here that is accessible game design.  For a game that prides itself on infinite possibilities, the last thing you want to do is make some of them traps.  I'm not saying the rest of the game is perfect, but this is a very glaring outlier of powers that no casual user would ever know "don't even attempt a snipe set unless you already know what you're going to do to make it work."

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You guys are being argumentative to be argumentative.  You're not "forced" into anything, it takes a tad bit more effort to do on a dominator, no one's forcing you to play it.  Hasten is just a fantastic pool power to grab and no one's making you take it but you just should plain take it.  Leadership is a fantastic pool, always had been even on live.  Seeing full leadership teams in action back in the day was dumbfounding.  There's not really much mastery you need in IOs other than making the kismet or heck let someone else understand IOs and buy it off the market.  You can overslot tactics with all tohit SOs for all I care.

 

Why even have these things available in the game we should just make everything inherent.  I thought we had a more intelligent community than this.

 

I mean for years in secret an intelligent group of people understood the functionality of the new snipe hence it was never changed.  So if this is something they had for years in private and now that it's public not even a month in it needs dumbed down?  Where do you ask maybe it's me that doesn't get it?

 

Coming back I didn't know snipe was like this until 3 weeks in after reaching 50 on my Dom and playing my fresh blaster.  All it took was dropping a power I hardly used and moving some slots, all of a sudden I have this fantastic single target attack.

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The 97% Insta-Snipe never left beta.

 

People keep acting like it's this holy grail that shouldn't be violated, but we're really not sure Paragon Studios ever would've been happy with their implementation either.

Quite so. None of the i24 changes ever left beta. Personally I'm quite sure many of them were just quick-fix patchjobs while more elegant permanent solutions were figured out.

So, it's up to new groups to decide where they think what refinements were going to be needed or added in the end.

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It's the curse of the private server. Some guy gets a bee in his bonnet and doesn't have the intelligence to look at the big picture, but no one wants to rock the boat so they let this guy have his Insta Snipes for everyone, never mind that it throws off the blanace for the entire AT. Ice is no longer significantly better at its one trick, and is pretty much a bottom tier blast choice now.

 

It's not like snipers are some god attack that one-shot everything. Most snipers have between 70 and 95 DPA on blasters, while Freeze Ray and Bitter Ice Blast have 125 and 133 DPA respectively. Ice will still be significantly better in single target than other sets, only being matched by Fire due to the ridiculous DPA of Blaze.

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I am not sure I am 100 percent with this 10 second mechanic. Or with the idea that the snipes are having damage reduced. I do like the insta snipe mechanic and I do like the idea of being able to pull off a snipe more at will during combat without having to stack to hit into my build. But I just think that perhaps there was a better way to go about it.

 

I think of many of our other newer sets like savage melee and water blast that have some kind of build up or stacking mechanic to them where attacking with normal attacks builds up a power that then is released with the use of a different power. Like water blast, using a few different basic attacks builds up tidal forces and then that is  released as additional damage with a couple attack options.

 

Why not use something like this for snipes. So if you can make it through the normal animation to open a fight then it has the normal effects, but as you use like your single target attacks once you begin fighting you build up sniper shot (or something else who cares what it is called really) and at like 3 stacks or 5 stacks of sniper shot your next sniper attack is instant, at full power to a normal long animated sniper attack. So essentially giving us back the full power sniper during combat but ultimately on a more limited basis because you have to build up the stacks to really get the damage out of it. Or if you fire it off early it is at the reduced damage but still instant for those that don't mind the lower damage stat but want it available more often to fill in an attack chain or something.

 

Seems like something like this could work and not be over powered and bridge between all the issues, or most of them.

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sometimes when an individual or a small group of people have been looking at something for a long time it can seem 'right' just because that's how it's always been, and it takes new or more perspectives to reveal how silly it actually is

 

this is the current situation with instant snipes; it's achievable via fairly arcane in-game knowledge and specific slotting; I honestly don't know how the lay player would ever even figure it out without going to a forum/discord and getting specific instructions.  Of course, the people playing in the 'secret' server environment weren't lay players, they were people (presumably) with a pretty high level understanding of game mechanics. So maybe something like the 22% tohit slotting seemed fine to them, even though it's ultimately pretty silly.

 

it'd be different if it were something like perma-dom, where there's a great many different combinations of sets you can use to achieve it. If a lot of different sets had tohit bonuses that you could build toward 22% with (or if tohit and accuracy were just the same stat), maybe that'd be a better approach than just making the instant behavior baseline.  That's not the case with instant snipes though; there's pretty much only one way to get the necessary +tohit for the large majority of ATs; there's no skill involved, you just ape the kismet/tactics slotting that got mathed out ages ago.

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I see a lot of Dominators posting in this thread, maybe one of you can tell me what to do about my literally useless targeting drone now? A power which differentiated my character from other characters, you know, so there's some variety in the game, which I now might as well drop? You get the best part of my sniping ability, can I get an AoE hold then? Since apparently everyone having everything is the way it should be, and that's fine.

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if you want an aoe hold you'll have to reroll /plant

 

but anyway, targeting drone will still work? It'll still buff tohit and increase the damage of your snipe

 

in any event, "someone else is getting buffed so I am also owed a buff' is a silly way to think about design

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I see a lot of Dominators posting in this thread, maybe one of you can tell me what to do about my literally useless targeting drone now? A power which differentiated my character from other characters, you know, so there's some variety in the game, which I now might as well drop? You get the best part of my sniping ability, can I get an AoE hold then? Since apparently everyone having everything is the way it should be, and that's fine.

 

Since you still need the +22% to hit to get max damage out of the new snipe, Targeting Drone is still the easiest way to get maximum damage.

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I see a lot of Dominators posting in this thread, maybe one of you can tell me what to do about my literally useless targeting drone now? A power which differentiated my character from other characters, you know, so there's some variety in the game, which I now might as well drop? You get the best part of my sniping ability, can I get an AoE hold then? Since apparently everyone having everything is the way it should be, and that's fine.

It’s not like it was difficult to get 22% tohit before; tactics + kismet was easily enough for blasters. Either way, targeting drone still has use because not only is it a massive tohit bonus that helps you deal with high defense mobs or tohit debuffs, they are actually going to change it to have a small, persistent damage buff.

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I see a lot of Dominators posting in this thread, maybe one of you can tell me what to do about my literally useless targeting drone now? A power which differentiated my character from other characters, you know, so there's some variety in the game, which I now might as well drop? You get the best part of my sniping ability, can I get an AoE hold then? Since apparently everyone having everything is the way it should be, and that's fine.

 

Also, last time I checked Targeting Drone should also give you added recharge on top of the added damage you will receive for having such high +To Hit for rolling /Devices.

 

 

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