Reusing Old Systems: Paragon Points (No real money)

[Shenanigunner]

8 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

The game should have a variety of content that will challenge full 8-person teams that make skillful use of all available options.  If it doesn't, what's the point of having all of those options available in the first place?

 

A perfect, frame-able version of my annoyed contention that every update of the game has to serve this mega-max, end-content, numbers-driven power player... t'ell (or Terra Volta) with everyone else.

 

I just suggest, humbly, that there are many changes that make casual playing more fun and engaging as well — but I know this completely baffles the MegaPowerMan set.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Triumphant]

14 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

A perfect, frame-able version of my annoyed contention that every update of the game has to serve this mega-max, end-content, numbers-driven power player... t'ell (or Terra Volta) with everyone else.

 

I just suggest, humbly, that there are many changes that make casual playing more fun and engaging as well — but I know this completely baffles MegaPowerMan and all.

 

I do get where you're coming from.  Here's the thing, though:

 

1) The play experience is already great for the casual player.  If you want to enjoy a non-optimized play experience at the low to mid (hell, even higher levels, to some extent, if you don't take incarnate powers and load up on the IO sets), there's already tons of content to accommodate that.

 

2) The MegaPowerMen of the game haven't got much, apart from the AE 801 content.  This goes to hard in the other direction for me (and others, I would suppose), plus frankly (from an RP/story perspective) lacks any engaging appeal to me as a player.

 

3) Since most of the players in this game are running incarnates (or will quickly get there, after joining), PUG's you join will be comprised mostly of these, SG's you join (RP or otherwise) will be comprised mostly of these, and so the largest groups of players lack game content that is truly challenging for them.

 

This could be solved by chucking IO sets and incarnate powers from the game.  I would heartily endorse this solution, personally, as I mainly just want to be able to play with the full power suite of an upper 40's to lvl 50 character.

 

You aren't going to sell that solution to the rest of the player base, though, so the answer is to introduce new content to challenge the MegaPowerMen.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Triumphant

[PeregrineFalcon]

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Replacement said:

The alternative is not having them as a choice at all for the npc parts, and less ways of accessing them for the other benefits.

 

 

What on earth makes you think it's the alternative? "Have it in a way you must pay in game exclusive currency" and "don't have it at all" are not the only options.

 

Your "point system" has absolutely nothing to do with the devs adding or not adding anything. Period.

[Marine X]

So if this angle has been discussed I apologize.

Assuming that the "Paragon Points System" is still in place but just disabled from interacting with anything, how about a different use of the program.

Points could be awarded Monthly to Active Accounts on a Character by Character basis with a reasonable Storage Limit. These Points could be, by the Player,  converted to any other in game Currency at various Conversion Rates, ( Reward Merits, Empyrean Merits, Vanguard Merits, Astral Merits ), and then used as the player sees fit, consider it an Active Account Stipend.

This would reward Players who actively play and perhaps help bolster our population to grow. Just a thought, but I plan to be here a while, and have plenty more itches to scratch in this game and anything that helps keep it healthy is a win for me.

[plainguy]

I say don't get married to your idea.  Trust me, I know easier said than done. I should follow my own advice.. 

I say rework the idea to just incorporate something we already have now.  Incarnate threads, Influence, Merits..  Or a mix of it all. 
Don't make it based on some time. I think you mentioned 1 to 4 weeks for a winter IO as an example.  I think that is too short for a winter IO.. It takes many hours to get 20 million influence. Playing on a 8/3 setting for 3-4 hours I am not making 20 million.

 

Maybe just work the reward angle forget about the currency and how it is obtained and let the Devs figure out where to put the rewards.. 

Look anything is good.

As much as I am open to many ideas. This one just doesn't feel right to me.  But I like the concept.. I just think the vehicle to get it has issues.

 

 

[Replacement]

On 9/28/2021 at 7:35 PM, Greycat said:

 

What on earth makes you think it's the alternative? "Have it in a way you must pay in game exclusive currency" and "don't have it at all" are not the only options.

 

Your "point system" has absolutely nothing to do with the devs adding or not adding anything. Period.

As in: that's literally the perspective I am pitching here.  Stay with me, I'm trying to break down the gap in Internet communication.  It's really ok to not like the idea, I just want to close this disconnect.

 

Let's break it into 2 parts:

 

Questionable NPC costume pieces:
I'm saying here "Hey HC, if you're on the fence as to whether or not to include a thing, consider a way to allow it in, in a limited context instead of not at all."  Right now, several pieces have been cited to me as not wanting to add it for concerns of the item's quality.  My (subjective) take is that equates to an item they don't want in open circulation, showing up everywhere you look no matter how bad.

If we had a new costume piece, they would want to add that out to everyone and this "limited" context makes zero sense.

 

Occasional freebies like bonus XP, bonus uses of temp powers, bonus IOs or their recipes, even level boosts:

These are all things that are attainable in-game through other means, so adding additional avenues to achieve it are... by definition, only adding to player options and providing alternate avenues.  For example, I would love to get a free Winter IO every 4 weeks instead of logging onto my Farm toon once every 100 days as I currently do.

 

So take those things together: 1) add an unavailable thing only if it's a better alternative to "not at all." (that's an HC judgement) and 2) Alternate avenues for players to get fun stuff.

Add them together and you can see how saying "no thanks, no limits ever" just isn't in scope.  It's really like saying "if you're only offering a single slice of pizza, then I reject it because I will only accept the whole pie." 

 

 

On 9/29/2021 at 10:10 PM, plainguy said:

I say don't get married to your idea.  Trust me, I know easier said than done. I should follow my own advice.. 

 

I'm ok on this front.  I just hope someone on Team HC sees my suggestions, skims them, and maybe gets a nugget of a different idea they can use.

[Replacement]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:37 PM, Marine X said:

So if this angle has been discussed I apologize.

Assuming that the "Paragon Points System" is still in place but just disabled from interacting with anything, how about a different use of the program.

Points could be awarded Monthly to Active Accounts on a Character by Character basis with a reasonable Storage Limit. These Points could be, by the Player,  converted to any other in game Currency at various Conversion Rates, ( Reward Merits, Empyrean Merits, Vanguard Merits, Astral Merits ), and then used as the player sees fit, consider it an Active Account Stipend.

This would reward Players who actively play and perhaps help bolster our population to grow. Just a thought, but I plan to be here a while, and have plenty more itches to scratch in this game and anything that helps keep it healthy is a win for me.

Yeah that's a good example of how this could be used.  What you've provided here is an example page of rewards the Paragon Points could add.  Not worrying about more controversial items (NPC pieces) and focusing on easy-win items everyone can get behind.

 

This would be good -- it's a "drop in the bucket" for career farmers, but a vast boon to folks who are not.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

Questionable NPC costume pieces:

 

I'm saying here "Hey HC, if you're on the fence as to whether or not to include a thing, consider a way to allow it in, in a limited context instead of not at all."  Right now, several pieces have been cited to me as not wanting to add it for concerns of the item's quality.  My (subjective) take is that equates to an item they don't want in open circulation, showing up everywhere you look no matter how bad.

If we had a new costume piece, they would want to add that out to everyone and this "limited" context makes zero sense.

 

 

 

So... that makes the idea make even *less* sense.

 

"Here. We'll give you the good costume pieces for free. This one, though, has horrible clipping/texture/whatever issues, so we'll make this some sort of exclusive/hard to get reward" (granted, "wait for points" isn't hard to get, but still...) just... no. It's like... Oh, a workplace giving everyone a raise. If you've been there a year, you get an extra floaitng PTO day, five years gets two weeks, "And here's jim, who's never missed a day for 25 years, walked to work that winter we had six feet of snow because his car wouldn't start even though he lives 10 miles away, has never taken a vacation... we're giving him... hmm. How about this leaky half gallon of milk. Might be spoiled, too. But only Jim gets that, give him a hand!"

 

Making *worse* or *more problematic* things a reward or "exclusive/hard to get?" ... no. Makes zero sense and would, frankly, make the team and the server look bad.

 

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

Add them together and you can see how saying "no thanks, no limits ever" just isn't in scope.  It's really like saying "if you're only offering a single slice of pizza, then I reject it because I will only accept the whole pie." 

 

... not even close.

[Replacement]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:47 AM, Greycat said:

 

"Here. We'll give you the good costume pieces for free. This one, though, has horrible clipping/texture/whatever issues, so we'll make this some sort of exclusive/hard to get reward" (granted, "wait for points" isn't hard to get, but still...) just... no. It's like... Oh, a workplace giving everyone a raise. If you've been there a year, you get an extra floaitng PTO day, five years gets two weeks, "And here's jim, who's never missed a day for 25 years, walked to work that winter we had six feet of snow because his car wouldn't start even though he lives 10 miles away, has never taken a vacation... we're giving him... hmm. How about this leaky half gallon of milk. Might be spoiled, too. But only Jim gets that, give him a hand!"

 

Making *worse* or *more problematic* things a reward or "exclusive/hard to get?" ... no. Makes zero sense and would, frankly, make the team and the server look bad.

 

This is good feedback!  I appreciate it!

 

I am taking a sort of "allowed Arsenic parts-per-million" approach, but this very handily explains your disconnect.  Thank you!

 

I still like this idea, but I can definitely see that any sort of "version 1" should not involve costume pieces, if for no other reason than player perception.

I would instead push for something more benign, like @Marine X's version - simply handing out free bits of merits, incarnate pieces, (I would also like to see Experienced charges) etc., at a rate that is slow enough to just feel like a nice little bonus for people actively playing, but paling in comparison to active farming, speedrunning, etc.