What's hurting Dark Primary for Blasters?

[Pixie_Knight]

Not to mention the claim that TT does 'crap' damage is directly counter to the fact that the damage is on par with all other cone attacks a blaster might have. Also, those 'explody' aoe do worse damage then you claim, they just do it to a larger number of enemies thus do more damage overall. Same with cone attacks. Thus a Dark Blast/* blaster isn't sacrificing damage to get a cone immobilize, they are getting the same damage they would have that is also a cone immobilize.

 

Hmmm, I will take a look at that when I get off from work. If this is correct, then I appreciate the info.

 

I'll go in-game to grab the numbers for what the various targeted aoe do at level 50 now. Mind you, they wont be the enhanced values, just base ones. But it should give you an idea. Remember, this is just the targeted aoe. Not location based aoe or tier 9 attacks like Nova

 

Dual Pistols

rain of bullets: 3 ticks 14.58 lethal damage over 1.1 sec, 3 tics 6.26 lethal damage over 1.1 sec, total damage of  62.52 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Archery

Explosive Arrow: 18.77 Smashing damage, 37.54 lethal damage, total damage of 56.31 at level 50 if unslotted

 

Assault Rifle

M20 Grenade: 18.77 smashing, 37.54 lethal, total of 56.31 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Beam Rifle

no aoe beyond the 9 nova

 

Fire Blast

Fireball: 12.51 smashing, 43.79 fire, 3 ticks of 9.38 fire over 2.1 sec after a 0.5 sec delay, total of 84.44 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Psychic Blast

Psionic Tornado: 5 ticks of 11.14 psionic damage over 4.1 sec, total damage of 55.68 at level 50 if unslotted

 

Radiation Blast

Neutron Bomb: 56.31 energy damage on target

 

Water Blast

Water Burst: 14.08 smashing damage, 42.23 cold damage, total damage of 56.31 at level 50 if unslotted

 

As for cone attacks, Umbrial Torrent does 60.06 neg energy damage and Tenebrous Tentacles does about 58.5 damage (but takes 8 seconds for all the damage to be applied). Compare this to the average damage of cone attacks in other sets, which is on average about 57-65 damage, with fire blast and Ice Blast being outliers. Water Blast also does far more damage with it's cones, but then again this also isn't a set which to my knowledge was released on the old Live servers. It was still in testing, so it not being balanced like the others makes all kinds of sense.

 

EDIT: The main reason fire blast universally does more damage then other sets is because it's attacks all have a damage over time component in addition to the burst damage. The burst damage is in line with other cone and targeted aoe attacks, with the DoT pushing things higher. Which also means that much of the time you're not getting the DoT damage due to enemies dying too fast for it to matter. I think Ice Blast gets more base damage due to it's attacks having longer recharge, but can't exactly remember.

[Solarverse]

Not to mention the claim that TT does 'crap' damage is directly counter to the fact that the damage is on par with all other cone attacks a blaster might have. Also, those 'explody' aoe do worse damage then you claim, they just do it to a larger number of enemies thus do more damage overall. Same with cone attacks. Thus a Dark Blast/* blaster isn't sacrificing damage to get a cone immobilize, they are getting the same damage they would have that is also a cone immobilize.

 

Hmmm, I will take a look at that when I get off from work. If this is correct, then I appreciate the info.

 

I'll go in-game to grab the numbers for what the various targeted aoe do at level 50 now. Mind you, they wont be the enhanced values, just base ones. But it should give you an idea. Remember, this is just the targeted aoe. Not location based aoe or tier 9 attacks like Nova

 

Dual Pistols

rain of bullets: 3 ticks 14.58 lethal damage over 1.1 sec, 3 tics 6.26 lethal damage over 1.1 sec, total damage of  62.52 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Archery

Explosive Arrow: 18.77 Smashing damage, 37.54 lethal damage, total damage of 56.31 at level 50 if unslotted

 

Assault Rifle

M20 Grenade: 18.77 smashing, 37.54 lethal, total of 56.31 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Beam Rifle

no aoe beyond the 9 nova

 

Fire Blast

Fireball: 12.51 smashing, 43.79 fire, 3 ticks of 9.38 fire over 2.1 sec after a 0.5 sec delay, total of 84.44 damage at level 50 if unslotted

 

Psychic Blast

Psionic Tornado: 5 ticks of 11.14 psionic damage over 4.1 sec, total damage of 55.68 at level 50 if unslotted

 

Radiation Blast

Neutron Bomb: 56.31 energy damage on target

 

Water Blast

Water Burst: 14.08 smashing damage, 42.23 cold damage, total damage of 56.31 at level 50 if unslotted

 

As for cone attacks, Umbrial Torrent does 60.06 neg energy damage and Tenebrous Tentacles does about 58.5 damage (but takes 8 seconds for all the damage to be applied). Compare this to the average damage of cone attacks in other sets, which is on average about 57-65 damage, with fire blast and Ice Blast being outliers. Water Blast also does far more damage with it's cones, but then again this also isn't a set which to my knowledge was released on the old Live servers. It was still in testing, so it not being balanced like the others makes all kinds of sense.

 

EDIT: The main reason fire blast universally does more damage then other sets is because it's attacks all have a damage over time component in addition to the burst damage. The burst damage is in line with other cone and targeted aoe attacks, with the DoT pushing things higher. Which also means that much of the time you're not getting the DoT damage due to enemies dying too fast for it to matter. I think Ice Blast gets more base damage due to it's attacks having longer recharge, but can't exactly remember.

 

That's good info. Appreciate you taking the time to look that up. I'm still working and won't be home for another hour. Thanks for that. Well in that case, maybe I should propose more casting animation options.  ;)

 

 

[AkuTenshiiZero]

Why are we obsessing over raw numbers and ignoring all of the secondary effects?  Dark Blast is never going to be on par with, say, Fire Blast because Fire's secondary effect is more damage.  That is all it does.  Meanwhile, Dark has other tricks, debuffing ToHit.  Look, I played this game for years way back, and in my opinion power sets were notappealing for their raw damage, but for the secondary effects and how you could leverage them in your favor.  I played Elec Blast, and I knew I was never going to hit Fire levels of damage, but I leaned into the -End and ended up powerful in a different way.  You can't just ignore all of the tricks that each set has.

 

And, on that note, I play a Dark/Poison Corruptor right now.  It works just fine in my opinion, that cone immobilize is the exact reason why I wanted to play the set in the first place.  It's not there for damage, there are other powers in the set for that purpose.  Seriously, back in the old days people understood how to exploit all the tools in each powerset and find out what makes each set powerful.  If you want raw damage, play fire.  If you want to do something interesting then play another set, experiment, change your approach, and THINK.

[Pixie_Knight]

Why are we obsessing over raw numbers and ignoring all of the secondary effects?  Dark Blast is never going to be on par with, say, Fire Blast because Fire's secondary effect is more damage.  That is all it does.  Meanwhile, Dark has other tricks, debuffing ToHit.  Look, I played this game for years way back, and in my opinion power sets were notappealing for their raw damage, but for the secondary effects and how you could leverage them in your favor.  I played Elec Blast, and I knew I was never going to hit Fire levels of damage, but I leaned into the -End and ended up powerful in a different way.  You can't just ignore all of the tricks that each set has.

 

And, on that note, I play a Dark/Poison Corruptor right now.  It works just fine in my opinion, that cone immobilize is the exact reason why I wanted to play the set in the first place.  It's not there for damage, there are other powers in the set for that purpose.  Seriously, back in the old days people understood how to exploit all the tools in each powerset and find out what makes each set powerful.  If you want raw damage, play fire.  If you want to do something interesting then play another set, experiment, change your approach, and THINK.

 

I was providing the raw damage numbers to show that Dark Blast's damage is not only on par with the other sets, but that the supposedly 'low damage' cone immobilize actually does have roughly the same damage as other cone attacks. Granted, because it's an eight second DoT you're probably not going to see the full damage all the time. And also due to it being an 8 second DoT it can seem weak due to individual ticks of damage appearing to be for small amounts. I also was showing the raw damage numbers to illustrate how the targeted aoe attacks tend to be a bit weaker then your T2 single target attack, at best, if you look at damage to an individual enemy.

 

The secondary effects can be important factors too. -Def means you don't have to slot quite as much ACC to connect reliably, while -res gives you an overall boost to damage dealt. -to-hit or -dam help keep you safe by reducing the amount of incoming damage you're taking. As does knockback.

[Nic Mercy]

Tenebrous Tentacles does comparable damage to Umbral Torrent and cone attacks in other Blaster primaries (see Energy Torrent, Buck Shot, Fistful of Arrows, etc). The fact that it does the same damage as other cones but also roots foes in place is a plus in my book.

 

And while I understand this isn't going to be readily apparent to newbies, Umbral Torrent can be slotted with a KB to KD IO to eliminate the knockback for those who dislike it.

 

Taking the above into account, and also considering Blaster's Dark Blast has a single target, high damage, mag3 hold (abyssal gaze) and a single target, high damage, attack/self heal (life drain), I think Dark Blast for Blasters is pretty darn good!

 

Let me touch base on a couple of things here. Most of us are Vets of this game and our knowledge of the game is quite extensive. As a player who has been here since I1 myself, I can assure you that you are speaking to a 43 year old man, who is also a veteran of this game. In fact, in most situations, I am the go to guy for information about this game and its mechanics. I thi k the days of calling people in this game newbies should be long dead by now.

 

Having said that, I am well aware of the IOs that prevent knock back. In fact, we have two types. It's not just one. I am also well aware that if one does choose to use those sets, chances are he/she will be dissatisfied with the other set bonuses that come with those. So it's a catch 22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

So yes, it is an option...however, that option should have came free in form of a toggle power that turns on and off knock back to knock down, not in the form of an IO.

 

So in this case, I both agree with you, but also disagree.

 

Allow me to touch base too! :D

 

I'm 43 as well! We're birth year siblings it seems! I'm also among those "vets" you mentioned too! I was even in the CoH beta!

 

So now that we've both established our "cred" (for whatever that is worth), let's talk about those IO's shall we?

 

There are two KB to KD enhancement options. The crafted one which is not unique, is part of the Sudden Acceleration set (I recommend this one because its easy/cheap to acquire), and the one that is unique which is part of the Overwhelming Force Universal Damage set (these enhancements are expensive!). In either case, the set bonuses for the sets are irrelevant. You only need to slot the specific KB to KD enhancement for the effect (not the whole set), and I would personally suggest 5 slotting a set like Ragnarok or Positron's Blast (if you're looking for more recharge) and then slap in that crafted KB to KD enhancement in the 6th slot to get rid of that detestable knockback! Easy peazy lemon squeezy!

 

Whatever options you think should be in the game in regards to how knockback to knockdown should be handled, should be posted in the suggestions forum. My post earlier was simply made to point out that a) there is a simple and affordable way to turn the knockback in Umbral Torrent into knockdown, b) that Tenebrous Tentacles does comparable damage to other Blaster cones, and c) that considering those factors and the overall kit of Dark Blast for Blasters, that there's not really anything "hurting" the Dark Primary for Blasters.

 

You can "disagree" with c) all you like, but what I stated for a) and b) are both factually correct. You may not like the options you currently have for KB to KD, but that's beyond the scope of my post.

[Solarverse]

 

Tenebrous Tentacles does comparable damage to Umbral Torrent and cone attacks in other Blaster primaries (see Energy Torrent, Buck Shot, Fistful of Arrows, etc). The fact that it does the same damage as other cones but also roots foes in place is a plus in my book.

 

And while I understand this isn't going to be readily apparent to newbies, Umbral Torrent can be slotted with a KB to KD IO to eliminate the knockback for those who dislike it.

 

Taking the above into account, and also considering Blaster's Dark Blast has a single target, high damage, mag3 hold (abyssal gaze) and a single target, high damage, attack/self heal (life drain), I think Dark Blast for Blasters is pretty darn good!

 

You can "disagree" with c) all you like, but what I stated for a) and b) are both factually correct. You may not like the options you currently have for KB to KD, but that's beyond the scope of my post.

 

I touched base on that earlier and am well aware of it.

 

Also, this was not a suggestion, just a discussion at what I would have done to make the set better and curious what others thought of the set and how they would have personally made it different had they been in charge of creating the set. I suppose the people who have posted here feel they would have done the exact same thing. Meh, if that's what they like, cool.

 

Somehow, the gung hos of CoH came out of the wood work to protect their Dark Blaster investments and defend the Dark Primary's honor? I guess... Clearly it is blasphemy to even speak your mind about what you would have done to make the set feel more Blastery without catching hell from the good folk of City of Heroes.

 

People are acting like I am pushing for some type of change, I never once indicated this. I was very clear about my intentions and it would seem people read in to it for more than face value. However, if people wish to argue about it, who am I to deny them their pass time? By all means, let's argue, because I can keep this up all day!  :D

 

P.S. To make something very clear, nobody seems to be reading the post I quoted and are taking what I said about my "creds" out of context. It was in response to a guy who felt it necessary to call people newbies. I corrected him and showed him that "newbies" are in the minority while showing him that vet players are the majority here. Not just myself, but a vast majority of us are very knowledgeable about this game, and that calling somebody a "newbie" in this game these days does not apply.

 

It would be helpful to put it in to full context, instead of taking a stab at me for saying what I did while leaving it out of context.

 

Also, 43 rocks!  ;)

[Nic Mercy]

I didn't specifically call anyone here "newbies" but I can see how my first post could be misconstrued that way so I do apologize for that.

 

When I said "And while I understand this isn't going to be readily apparent to newbies" I meant that in general, not specifically you. We have a lot of people new to coh playing now. Much more than I ever expected to be honest. My post was meant to be broad and inclusive of those people, not a dig at your knowledge or experience. In this case it was probably just a loss in translation due to text vs. speech, and/or poor wording on my part and for that, again, I do apologize.

[jubakumbi]

P.S. To make something very clear, nobody seems to be reading the post I quoted and are taking what I said about my "creds" out of context. It was in response to a guy who felt it necessary to call people newbies. I corrected him and showed him that "newbies" are in the minority while showing him that vet players are the majority here. Not just myself, but a vast majority of us are very knowledgeable about this game, and that calling somebody a "newbie" in this game these days does not apply.

 

Nope.

He referred to a fact and said newbies might not know that fact.

It was, in no way, a put-down and was not offensive.

I realize you took it that way, but from my PoV, you totally fired the first salvo.

 

There are a ton of new players, he was obviously also trying to inform people that are not vets is all.

 

As to the topic at hand, my Dark/Dark blaster is a ton of fun.

I don't feel like I run through content any slower than other blasters and I am hit way less, so are my teammates.

So from my PoV, the minutae might not look the same, but the play is awesome.

[Solarverse]

I didn't specifically call anyone here "newbies" but I can see how my first post could be misconstrued that way so I do apologize for that.

 

When I said "And while I understand this isn't going to be readily apparent to newbies" I meant that in general, not specifically you. We have a lot of people new to coh playing now. Much more than I ever expected to be honest. My post was meant to be broad and inclusive of those people, not a dig at your knowledge or experience. In this case it was probably just a loss in translation due to text vs. speech, and/or poor wording on my part and for that, again, I do apologize.

 

You have just earned a great deal of respect from me. Thank you. Another thing we do not hear is tone of voice. So it is easy to take things the wrong way, depending on how it is read by the reader.

 

I probably should have made it clear that my post was not a request of any kind, just a what would you have done differently had you been in charge type question. That might have made this conversation much more pleasant.  :)

[Nic Mercy]

I didn't specifically call anyone here "newbies" but I can see how my first post could be misconstrued that way so I do apologize for that.

 

When I said "And while I understand this isn't going to be readily apparent to newbies" I meant that in general, not specifically you. We have a lot of people new to coh playing now. Much more than I ever expected to be honest. My post was meant to be broad and inclusive of those people, not a dig at your knowledge or experience. In this case it was probably just a loss in translation due to text vs. speech, and/or poor wording on my part and for that, again, I do apologize.

 

You have just earned a great deal of respect from me. Thank you. Another thing we do not hear is tone of voice. So it is easy to take things the wrong way, depending on how it is read by the reader.

 

I probably should have made it clear that my post was not a request of any kind, just a what would you have done differently had you been in charge type question. That might have made this conversation much more pleasant.  :)

 

Glad we could find common ground then! :D

[Erydanus]

I was surprised to read that Night Fall wasn't in the set but just looking at it in mids Tenebrous Tentacles got a big damage buff compared to the defender/ corrupters.

 

And wow that clunker Dark Pit got dropped and a buffed up and damaging version of Petrifying Gaze, Abyssal Gaze. Man I want Abyssal Gaze swapped in to the Scrapper/Stalker dark ancillary pool now. It's 20 sec recharge 9.5 second hold instead of 32 sec recharge 9.5 sec hold, and it does damage between the tier 1 and 2. Nice!

[Ironscarlet]

Created a Dark/Temporal blaster  and am having a blast. I don't like glass cannons I normally play Tanks and so forth.  What drew me to the combo was 2 massive damage holds when Time Lord and Perms Hasten I stack the hold so fast it's insane.

 

Also the aoes mesh well. 

 

Nothing wrong for Dark blaster it just needs a good meshing secondary. To go with its soft control.  I put it on par with my Elec/elec Sent  not as tough as the sent but not as soft as a blaster. With  bigger aoe damage and far more control she shines in her own way.

Again choosing a correct secondary to complement the dark soft control is huge compared to other blasters.

[Solarverse]

Created a Dark/Temporal blaster  and am having a blast. I don't like glass cannons I normally play Tanks and so forth.  What drew me to the combo was 2 massive damage holds when Time Lord and Perms Hasten I stack the hold so fast it's insane.

 

Also the aoes mesh well. 

 

Nothing wrong for Dark blaster it just needs a good meshing secondary. To go with its soft control.  I put it on par with my Elec/elec Sent  not as tough as the sent but not as soft as a blaster. With  bigger aoe damage and far more control she shines in her own way.

Again choosing a correct secondary to complement the dark soft control is huge compared to other blasters.

 

I wanted my Dark Blaster to feel like a Blaster. So I went with /Fire and it works well, and colored right, looks like it could actually be a /Dark secondary. I'm okay with it. Only thing I dont like is it takes too much time for my dots to complete their cycles, and more often than not, the mobs are dead due to front loaded DPS guys, before my dots can even complete a single cycle. That hopefully will change one of these days, but I wont hold my breath, heh.

[Pixie_Knight]

The DoT component of a fire blaster's attacks are bonus damage. The burst damage is in the same league as other Blaster sets. It's only if you give every attack's DoT time to finish that it does the most damage. Most of the time you'll find that you don't get the full DoT from any given attack, even if you're soloing. This is because you yourself are killing enemies before the DoT can tick more then once or twice.

[Solarverse]

The DoT component of a fire blaster's attacks are bonus damage. The burst damage is in the same league as other Blaster sets. It's only if you give every attack's DoT time to finish that it does the most damage. Most of the time you'll find that you don't get the full DoT from any given attack, even if you're soloing. This is because you yourself are killing enemies before the DoT can tick more then once or twice.

 

Which is why as a Dark Blaster, I focus the boss first, since I have the best chance for a dot to complete its cycle with the boss...unless of course there is a Stalker on the team, then I just give up on it and fire at whatever is moving, lol.

 

At least with fire, you dont even think about the dots because fire has a nice front load to it.

 

Which brings me to the question, is fire a chance to dot, or will it dot every single time? I know Spines is a chance for dot, not sure about fire.

[Pixie_Knight]

Fire blast always does the DoT, assuming the attack hits of course. Also assuming the enemy survives long enough for the DoT to start.

[Solarverse]

Fire blast always does the DoT, assuming the attack hits of course. Also assuming the enemy survives long enough for the DoT to start.

 

I thought so, but was not positive. Thanks.

[Seed22]

Let me touch base on a couple of things here. Most of us are Vets of this game and our knowledge of the game is quite extensive. As a player who has been here since I1 myself, I can assure you that you are speaking to a 43 year old man, who is also a veteran of this game. In fact, in most situations, I am the go to guy for information about this game and its mechanics. I thi k the days of calling people in this game newbies should be long dead by now.

 

Ah, playing the elitist card. FYI, there are people who are actually new to this game and don't spill out the vast knowledge you seem to claim in having.

 

Please stop. Now you are just trying to pick a fight. I'm not the one going around calling people newbies. You did that. I simply brought things in perspective, by stating a fact that MOST players here are veterans of this game...and the days of calling people newbies should end. Also, I said most of us has extensive knowledge of this game...not just me. And I am right, most of us do. We learn from each other of the things we don't know to help each other become more knowledgeable. Don't go labeling me with tags without sufficient evidence to back them up. It makes us both look foolish...and honestly, I would rather keep this friendly.

 

Uh...Im thinking he's talking about actually NEW players. CoH does have a lot of actually NEW players too. I mean, I'm a vet, but the game's been gone for 7 years, everyone didn't retain all the info about CoH over those 7 years. Hell, I knew a lot about the game pre-shutdown and even I didn't retain the info 100%.

[wjrasmussen]

Abrasive or not, Pixie is a bit correct.  Dark Blast is originally intended as a Defender blast set,  If you look at the powers, they're more focused on their debuffing and utility rather than straight damage.  Sonic Attack and Radiation Blast are in a similar boat, although Sonic Attack didn't need any proliferation.  Meanwhile, although Defenders get it, Fire Blast is in the opposite boat in that it's mostly damage and almost no utility, making it not so good on a number Defender primaries, like Empathy or Forcefields.

 

Also, looking at the Dark Blast powers on the wiki, it looks like they did add a good bit of damage to Blaster Dark Blast, between Aim, Umbral Torrent, Abyssal Gaze, and a stronger Life Drain.  Unlike Defender Fire Blast, which got no added utility.  :(

 

I'm all about what is fair.

How old are you?

[Pixie_Knight]

Abrasive or not, Pixie is a bit correct.  Dark Blast is originally intended as a Defender blast set,  If you look at the powers, they're more focused on their debuffing and utility rather than straight damage.  Sonic Attack and Radiation Blast are in a similar boat, although Sonic Attack didn't need any proliferation.  Meanwhile, although Defenders get it, Fire Blast is in the opposite boat in that it's mostly damage and almost no utility, making it not so good on a number Defender primaries, like Empathy or Forcefields.

 

Also, looking at the Dark Blast powers on the wiki, it looks like they did add a good bit of damage to Blaster Dark Blast, between Aim, Umbral Torrent, Abyssal Gaze, and a stronger Life Drain.  Unlike Defender Fire Blast, which got no added utility.  :(

 

I'm all about what is fair.

How old are you?

 

The fire DoT is the added utility that Fire Blast is suppose to bring to the table for a defender. Little hard or soft control (fireball might have a knockdown/back component) with extra damage to drop foes faster. A defender would get more benefit from the DoT then a blaster due to blasters dealing more burst damage.

[kiramon]

To be honest, when I play a blaster I'd love to have a cone or aoe immobilize. Enemies tyically do less damage at range then they do in melee. So keeping them from getting closer to me is a Good Thing. And knockback again helps keep things away from me. That is still a good thing. But if you really hate knockback, there is a set enhancement that converts it to knockdown instead. No, what I've always heard regarding to what holds dark blast back is that it's got some of the lowest damage to make up for being the least resisted damage type. And if you're fighting certain things like Dark Pantheon, they heavily resist it so you'd better have other stuff like Prestige attacks to pick up the slack.

 

Here is the problem I am having with that; Blasters are not Controllers. They lack in DPS for a control. I'm sure Controllers would love to do more DPS, but they are Controllers. We have DPS classes, just like we have controlling classes. Makes no sense to me why a Blaster should get a cone Immobilize when they should be having an AoE Damage ability in its place 

 

I get that you like it, however, it doesn't belong on a Blaster and it hurts the class and their role in the group.

 

Edited for typo.

 

Pretty sure Illusion throws wrenches into that...

 

 

It also throws it into Dominator, who can't have Illusion 'because it's too much damage' for a Dominator, the Damage-oriented version of controller...

[Pixie_Knight]

 

Pretty sure Illusion throws wrenches into that...

 

 

It also throws it into Dominator, who can't have Illusion 'because it's too much damage' for a Dominator, the Damage-oriented version of controller...

 

As I'd already pointed out, dark blasters don't trade damage for controls to begin with. They might trade burst damage for a cone immobilize, But TT does damage on par with other Blaster cone attacks. It's not the highest damage blaster cone, but it's middle of the pack in terms of strength. And it does twice as much damage as the Defender version of TT. Corrupters do more damage at base, but with a blaster's inherent they'll get more damage overall out of it.

 

In fact, none of Dark Blast (blaster version) sacrifices damage for utility. It gets both damage and utility. But even if that wasn't the case, blasters have long traded damage for utility. That's the whole point of one secondary after all.

[Solarverse]

Abrasive or not, Pixie is a bit correct.  Dark Blast is originally intended as a Defender blast set,  If you look at the powers, they're more focused on their debuffing and utility rather than straight damage.  Sonic Attack and Radiation Blast are in a similar boat, although Sonic Attack didn't need any proliferation.  Meanwhile, although Defenders get it, Fire Blast is in the opposite boat in that it's mostly damage and almost no utility, making it not so good on a number Defender primaries, like Empathy or Forcefields.

 

Also, looking at the Dark Blast powers on the wiki, it looks like they did add a good bit of damage to Blaster Dark Blast, between Aim, Umbral Torrent, Abyssal Gaze, and a stronger Life Drain.  Unlike Defender Fire Blast, which got no added utility.  :(

 

I'm all about what is fair.

How old are you?

 

I wasn't going to answer this, because I just know deep down you are trying to provoke some type of response. However, I am curious where you are going with this. If you have read the posts that lead up to this point, you will see that I have already given my age. I'm 43 years old. Why do you ask?

[Solarverse]

 

Pretty sure Illusion throws wrenches into that...

 

 

It also throws it into Dominator, who can't have Illusion 'because it's too much damage' for a Dominator, the Damage-oriented version of controller...

 

As I'd already pointed out, dark blasters don't trade damage for controls to begin with. They might trade burst damage for a cone immobilize, But TT does damage on par with other Blaster cone attacks. It's not the highest damage blaster cone, but it's middle of the pack in terms of strength. And it does twice as much damage as the Defender version of TT. Corrupters do more damage at base, but with a blaster's inherent they'll get more damage overall out of it.

 

In fact, none of Dark Blast (blaster version) sacrifices damage for utility. It gets both damage and utility. But even if that wasn't the case, blasters have long traded damage for utility. That's the whole point of one secondary after all.

 

They trade damage per second in a game where high damage per second counts most. I'll leave it at that though. This is an argument that I do not think can be won when people like it just as is. Not everyone is going to like a powerset for the same reasons. I see potential in the set, and I se some work arounds, so it is not important to me to try and get the set changed. I understand why you guys like it, just as I am sure you understand why I don't like a couple of the powers. Nobody could change my mind about Practiced Brawler being left as is. Nobody could convince me to change it. Just as I know that no matter what I said, I could never get you to change your mind.  ;)

 

Like I said, a ton of people I talk to in game, random people every day, feel as though Dark Primary and Secondary for a Blaster is a joke. Not surprisingly, the people on the forums feel differently. I am in the middle on this, I love the set, but only see two abilities wrong with the set. So I see both sides.

[Pixie_Knight]

 

As I'd already pointed out, dark blasters don't trade damage for controls to begin with. They might trade burst damage for a cone immobilize, But TT does damage on par with other Blaster cone attacks. It's not the highest damage blaster cone, but it's middle of the pack in terms of strength. And it does twice as much damage as the Defender version of TT. Corrupters do more damage at base, but with a blaster's inherent they'll get more damage overall out of it.

 

In fact, none of Dark Blast (blaster version) sacrifices damage for utility. It gets both damage and utility. But even if that wasn't the case, blasters have long traded damage for utility. That's the whole point of one secondary after all.

 

They trade damage per second in a game where high damage per second counts most. I'll leave it at that though. This is an argument that I do not think can be won when people like it just as is. Not everyone is going to like a powerset for the same reasons. I see potential in the set, and I se some work arounds, so it is not important to me to try and get the set changed. I understand why you guys like it, just as I am sure you understand why I don't like a couple of the powers. Nobody could change my mind about Practiced Brawler being left as is. Nobody could convince me to change it. Just as I know that no matter what I said, I could never get you to change your mind.  ;)

 

Like I said, a ton of people I talk to in game, random people every day, feel as though Dark Primary and Secondary for a Blaster is a joke. Not surprisingly, the people on the forums feel differently. I am in the middle on this, I love the set, but only see two abilities wrong with the set. So I see both sides.

 

Except it doesn't trade DPS. The DPS for TT is on par with any other Blaster cone attack. What it trades is burst damage, which is not quite the same thing. And this trade is only made with one single attack. Lead off with TT, and you'll get the full damage on most of the enemies hit with it. Follow up with another cone attack (since enemies are still nicely grouped for it), and that too gets full damage on everything. And TT has likely now managed to deal most to all of it's damage to your primary target. Start using your single target attacks next. You might get less then full TT damage on one of the enemies caught in it, but then again with any other blaster set the 2nd or 3rd attack was probably overkill which 'wasted' damage as well. Or in other words you didn't trade any damage, but got a cone immobilize. The only thing you didn't get was a Single Big Number showing above everything's head when TT hit. Thus it likely feels like it does little damage.

 

Then again the various 'rain' powers also show multiple ticks of low damage yet nobody complains about them trading damage for a secondary effect. In fact, it's entirely possible for an enemy to exit most Rain type attacks before they took the full damage from it. They can't do that with TT.