Arachnos Widows

[C U R S E]

Widows are one of my very favorite toons to play and I have played them from the beginnings of COH, years back. I really would like if conditioning, the VEAT inherent, was increased seeing they have no heal powers. Increasing the regeneration and endurance recovery would really make a great impact on their gameplay. I would also like to ask if Widows could have the option to branch out to Fotunata or Night Widow right from level one, because there really is no reason to wait 24 levels. 

[Haijinx]

Conditioning probably is underpowered.  It dates back to before Stamina and Health were inherent and thus reflects on a whole different level of expected performance.  

 

Since its the Inherent, it should not be so pathetic.  

 

 

[BrandX]

Agreed.  Playing my Widow, I couldn't help but go "I know I have an inherent, but it feels so lacking, like, do I even have one, really?"

 

5% Increased Recovery and 20% Regeneration?  Make it 25% and 40%.  The values of unenhanced Stamina and Health.

[DreadShinobi]

Widows have no self healing or endurance management tools, they rely very heavily on their natural regen and recovery to sustain. Their inherent is actually perfect for them, it is a boost to exactly what they lack in their powersets - the base values just need to be higher - something along the lines of actually being tangible enough to notice that you have an inherent at all. 

 

I also personally don't see making the health regen portion be rather significant - more than the base 40% in unenhanced health. Widows have 1071 base hp, which is really damn low. Stalkers and Blasters have 1205 base hp. My widow with full accolades/IO build hits 1397 hp and put a significant amount of slots into health regen (301%) which still only nets me 21.05 hp/sec. It's great, I heal 50% of my total hp every 33 seconds, but the low base hp really holds the actual total mitigation back quite a bit. Becuase of their low base hp the regen buff from their inherent is even moreso reduced in practical value. I would hope that someday either the value on their base regen is buffed or they are allowed at minimum the 1205 base hp shared with stalkers and blasters (or both). I don't see both as being game breaking, they're far from edging on overpowered. The low base hp and lack of resistances also makes widows feel even squishier than they are because when those hits do slip through they typically chunk large percentages out of your green bar and you just pray that you regen enough before getting chunked again.

 

My widow is the only character I play that I would actually consider putting aid self from medicine pool in their build (which I don't but I sure as heck wish I had space for it). I play plenty of characters that have no self healing, poison and cold domination are some of my favorite powersets in the game, but I don't notice the lack of sustain on them like I notice it playing my widow.

Edited October 4, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Haijinx]

56 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Agreed.  Playing my Widow, I couldn't help but go "I know I have an inherent, but it feels so lacking, like, do I even have one, really?"

 

5% Increased Recovery and 20% Regeneration?  Make it 25% and 40%.  The values of unenhanced Stamina and Health.

 

Either that or make it so you can slot it like Health and Stamina.  

 

But generally inherents can't be slotted, or maybe none of them can. 

 

The irony is that I've found on Arachnos Soldier using the Assault Rifle you end up gasping for END far more quickly than a blaster does.  Which seems really sad since you are supposed to have a recovery inherent after all. 

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

 

Either that or make it so you can slot it like Health and Stamina.  

 

But generally inherents can't be slotted, or maybe none of them can. 

 

The irony is that I've found on Arachnos Soldier using the Assault Rifle you end up gasping for END far more quickly than a blaster does.  Which seems really sad since you are supposed to have a recovery inherent after all. 

 

Which is why I suggested just putting their passive up to base Stamina/Health levels.  Really, I doubt it would make it so you're an endless blue bar and none of the regen will likely really help, but it would likely make it so you actually take a little notice of the passive.

 

Don't care for the idea of slotting the passive (the others can't be) not to mention slotting for 5% recovery isn't going to net much.

[KaizenSoze]

A lot of discussion about the inherit in the last round of discussion.

 

The core of the Widow end issues are the expensive claw attacks for their damage.

 

See the end of the thread for more detail discussion about claw costs.

 

 

[Black Zot]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:56 PM, Haijinx said:

Conditioning probably is underpowered.  It dates back to before Stamina and Health were inherent and thus reflects on a whole different level of expected performance.  

 

Since its the Inherent, it should not be so pathetic.  

 

 

 

No "probably" about it.  The OG devs literally gave it just enough effect to show up on the buff bar where an actual inherent should be.  The boost it offers is so trivial it's more of an insult than a power.

[SeraphimKensai]

Conditioning idea:

• Add in a passive 10% end discount
• Change the Regen/Recovery to scale based on density of npcs/players around the player where the existing values are the effect for having 1 entity in range, and let it cap at up to 10 entities in range (maybe double unenhanced stamina/health, so at half density you have values in line with unenhanced stamina/health, although that might scale too high).

That way you're conditioned in that things cost less to use, but as the task gets tougher your conditioning helps kick in your Second Wind.

 

I think that would address the end issues quite well for VEATS especially running double leadership, and give them some more Regen when I'm the gray and surrounded by mobs. I feel that keeps true to the intent of the inherent, and actually makes it feel beneficial.

Edited October 5, 2021 by SeraphimKensai

[TheZag]

If i recall, the OG devs didnt want VEATs to have an inherent at all.  And the sad numbers on conditioning were to fulfill the player mindset of every AT is supposed to have an inherent.

[arcane]

I’m down for a modest increase. Like 5/20 -> 10/40 or whatever. Definitely no higher than, say, 15/60. Inherent second stamina is a bit much. In general though, VEATs don’t need buffs right now.

 

And note to the OP: don’t think of every AT/powerset having heal powers as even remotely essential in this game.

Edited October 5, 2021 by arcane

[Haijinx]

6 hours ago, TheZag said:

If i recall, the OG devs didnt want VEATs to have an inherent at all.  And the sad numbers on conditioning were to fulfill the player mindset of every AT is supposed to have an inherent.

 

gross

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

 

I think that would address the end issues quite well for VEATS especially running double leadership, and give them some more Regen when I'm the gray and surrounded by mobs. I feel that keeps true to the intent of the inherent, and actually makes it feel beneficial.

 

I don't think the double leadership was originally considered as a class defining feature as much as the improved in set versions. 

 

But your point does remain.