The Flash (movie) teaser drop

[Frostbiter]

Do I have to grow a goatee? Because I can do that.

[El D]

As great as it is to see Michael Keaton's Batman again, sucks that it took their cinematic universe imploding - in and out of universe - for DC/WB to finally course-correct on the dreary, faux-operatic tone of the prior films (both color-grading and story-wise). They seem to be banking really hard on the 'See the OG movie Batman again for one last ride!' aspect, which I can't blame them for given how... less than consumer friendly Ezra is (to put it lightly). Affleck's Batman isn't much of a general draw given that he's gone from the role after the film, but Michael Shannon coming back as Zod is a massive plus.

 

It just seems weird how the most 'DC Comics Accurate'-looking movie thus far is basically a massive Elseworlds take for the DCEU itself... but with how Elseworlds their cinematic universe felt to the characters and setting, it does make sense. In a depressing 'what could have been' sort of way.

Edited February 16, 2023 by El D

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

3 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

Do I have to grow a goatee? Because I can do that.

But then how do I tell you apart from your Evil Twins?

[Frostbiter]

2 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

But then how do I tell you apart from your Evil Twins?

 

Heh "Evil" twin. Don't worry about that guy.

 

 

[Techwright]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:37 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

  Hide contents

Yup, I suppose a costumed lunatic in million-dollar MotoCross armour would be one of the few insane enough to ride one.

I have my own ride picked out for any heroics, which is less likely to kill me before I get to the crime scene. And better for a stealthy arrival.

 

Looking at the footwear and hair, I'd say it's not Kal, so it could be Barry. Or a Barry, since there seem to be several. Or someone we haven't yet met.

 

The TV series is sadly ending, so having the DCEU Flashpoint event end or bottle its universe - or have Grant show up as one of the multiple Flashes - would be fun.

 

I'm not thrilled the TV show is ending, The Flash has always been one of my favorite comic characters, but considering how problematic the writing has been off and on for years, and that at 9 seasons in, actors are usually wanting to move on lest they be permanently typecast and out of work, I'd say it is time.  It's too bad the Arrow-verse  seems to have grown more juvenile over time (though it still had its moments).  Another series or two with a harder edge to them, akin to the first seasons of The Flash and Arrow, might have been appreciated.  I for one, forever hope someone would develop a gritty noir around The Question.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

19 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I for one, forever hope someone would develop a gritty noir around The Question.

WB would if they weren't in the pocket of Big Aglet.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Just rezzing this thread as the movie should be in your local flick palaces fairly soon.

 

Reviews seem to be following a general theme

"Miller's great, the OG BAT IS BACK, BAAABY, and it's one of the best cape flicks everrrr...

...buuuuuttt...."

 

And I guess you know who the "but" is.

 

Get me drunk enough while talking around movies and I'll probably mention my own, highly personal and fairly naff theory of "the Believability Curve". A logarithmic graph of how difficult is for an actor to convince you they're in a particular role, based on the range of flicks you've seen them in before, and also what you know about them personally. For example, you might take a lot of work to believe Keanu could do Hamlet - but according to all accounts, especially one reviewer who'd heard of the guy but never seen Bill & Ted, he was... pretty good. 

 

This is where the problem with Miller comes in. In the bit of your brain your eyes are connected to, you can see a fine young actor with decent comic timing pulling off a quite tricky dual role, based on naivete vs heroic worldweariness, and pretty much nailing it.

Where your memory lives, it's screaming at your consciousness that this guy is neither naive nor heroic - in fact, probably not someone you'd want within a 500-metre exclusion zone of schools, let alone with their face on kids' branded lunchboxes.

And those two things together give you a headache.

 

Whaddyouseguysthink?

 

IM(np)HO, the way I'm feeling right now is that the Miller issues knock this down from "queuing next weekend" to... "interesting but non-essential". If someone took me I'd happily go, but I still need to see GOTG3 and a couple of other things, and my weekend time's limited right now for reasons.

 

Controversy is all well and good, and can boost a movie in the right circumstances. But if the audience has been shocked into indifference...?

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[biostem]

Everyone* knows that no one is seeing this for Miller.  It's all about Keaton and the various rumored cameos.  There are many arguments for and against, but personally, I have no issue separating an artist from their art.  You can appreciate the engineering knowhow from the bad guys in WWII, without endorsing their ideology...

[Techwright]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:30 PM, biostem said:

It's all about Keaton and the various rumored cameos. 

*Clicks ruby sneakers together*

There's no DC hero like The Question, there's no DC hero like The Question, there's no...

 

 

Eh, I'm between contracts, but I might fork over a few greenbacks to see this.  The Flash was my favorite DC hero growing up, and was one of my inspirations for my winning, but brief, high school track days.   Miller (controversies aside) never really hit the right note for me as the character, not like John Wesley Ship did, or even Grant Gustin,  but hey, it's The Flash.  So yes, it is non-essential, but interesting.

 

 

[honoroit]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:30 PM, biostem said:

You can appreciate the engineering knowhow from the bad guys in WWII, without endorsing their ideology...

 

probably good movie, but no on that sentiment -

what is vehicle to progress?

what is warp of religion bent on dominating empire?

what is abject failure of our Mankind?

it is this, its works, and its wound.

 

the pomp is the attractant, the promise and shroud. 

 

let us not fall into capture, ya?

 

 

[Coin]

I went to see it yesterday on release.

 

Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong Flash fan, all the different iterations, I know the character very well and he's my all-time favourite superhero, so this may cloud my opinion and judgement somewhat, in the same way that not being overly well versed in the Marvel stuff allows me to enjoy it more because I have no pre-conceptions or anything.

 

I found it....unfulfilling.

 

There's a lot of good to it, Michael Keaton is fantastic and steals the screen every time he's on there and Sasha Calle is excellent as well, it's something of a shame we may never see her as Supergirl again if they do go the road of full reboot.

 

But Miller, is just.....not Barry Allen. He was a little better than he was in the dreadful Flash  Bah, I meant Justice League movie, but still, not good. He doesn't ever feel like Barry Allen to me. Grant Gustin was never quite perfect either, but he was way way better than Miller.

 

As for the film, without spoilers, it's fun for a lot of it, with an excellent opening sequence, but the ending was woeful. The CGI at times, was very crappy, although that's par for the course in DC and Marvel recently (*I don't understand how CGI from Jurassic Park 30 years ago is still so much better than some of this??)

 

There's a key scene later in the movie that I found very unsatisfying, so spoiler tag time

 

Spoiler

The whole multiversal scene that has been spoilt all over the internet was woefully underused.

 

The awful CGI reared it's head again with old characters played by dead actors coming back and the scene with Reeves and co was just bad on so many levels, not just the CGI, but the whole tone and feel of it was just plain wrong and an insult to them

Plus, there was so many other things they could have added, quick visuals of all the other DC properties, such as the Arrowverse, Titans, classic Wonder Woman, Doom Patrol etc. none of it even got a look in. Very disappointing. Especially given that Miller appeared in the Crisis in the Arrowverse, they could have at least returned the favour!
 

So, yeah, go see it if you want to, as far as I'm concerned, my money went to Keaton and no one else.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Coin
Wrong movie!

[Frostbiter]

On the subject of modern vs older CGI and why older still holds up, the main reason is because it used to be used sparingly and mixed with practical effects. Now entire scenes and entire movies are CGI and the CGI studios are struggling just to crank them out. Quality has slipped as a result. Plus, we all have way better home screens these days so the bad CGI stands out more.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

 

4 hours ago, Coin said:

So, yeah, go see it if you want to, as far as I'm concerned, my money went to Keaton and no one else.

Well, it'll be clipped all over YouTube in a couple of months as "reaction" or "Best Bit" videos, so I think I can wait for when it shows up on a streaming service. 

(Not sure who'll get that in the UK, though.)

 

Industry-ish side notes for folks following the Little Mermaid thread...

• Flash has an RT Verified Audience score of 95%, and All Audience of 80%... with MetaCritic not yet user-rated.
• Flash's opening weekend is expected to top out at $85m. That's... average for a wide-release movie, only two thirds of Little Mermaid's numbers, and way behind the likes of GOTG3. Some estimates put it as low as $70m, which is only a little more than Black Adam. Yet somehow not the massive failure the Disney flick was imputed to be by a number of sites, YouTubers and beard-oil salesmen. Ya gotta wonder why...

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, Coin said:

I went to see it yesterday on release.

 

Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong Flash fan, all the different iterations, I know the character very well and he's my all-time favourite superhero, so this may cloud my opinion and judgement somewhat, in the same way that not being overly well versed in the Marvel stuff allows me to enjoy it more because I have no pre-conceptions or anything.

 

I found it....unfulfilling.

 

There's a lot of good to it, Michael Keaton is fantastic and steals the screen every time he's on there and Sasha Calle is excellent as well, it's something of a shame we may never see her as Supergirl again if they do go the road of full reboot.

 

But Miller, is just.....not Barry Allen. He was a little better than he was in the dreadful Flash movie, but still, not good. He doesn't ever feel like Barry Allen to me. Grant Gustin was never quite perfect either, but he was way way better than Miller.

 

As for the film, without spoilers, it's fun for a lot of it, with an excellent opening sequence, but the ending was woeful. The CGI at times, was very crappy, although that's par for the course in DC and Marvel recently (*I don't understand how CGI from Jurassic Park 30 years ago is still so much better than some of this??)

 

There's a key scene later in the movie that I found very unsatisfying, so spoiler tag time

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The whole multiversal scene that has been spoilt all over the internet was woefully underused.

 

The awful CGI reared it's head again with old characters played by dead actors coming back and the scene with Reeves and co was just bad on so many levels, not just the CGI, but the whole tone and feel of it was just plain wrong and an insult to them

Plus, there was so many other things they could have added, quick visuals of all the other DC properties, such as the Arrowverse, Titans, classic Wonder Woman, Doom Patrol etc. none of it even got a look in. Very disappointing. Especially given that Miller appeared in the Crisis in the Arrowverse, they could have at least returned the favour!
 

So, yeah, go see it if you want to, as far as I'm concerned, my money went to Keaton and no one else.

 

 

Same scenario for me.  Lifelong fan (dating back to first runs of Super Friends where he guest starred), though I only collected a limited amount of comics regarding The Flash in the 1990s.  So, it's good to get thoughts from a similar viewpoint.

 

"...in the dreadful Flash movie".  Do you mean the Justice League movie? 

 

Ezra, even before all the front-page news, never felt like Barry Allen to me.  But then DC, like Marvel, has a multiverse where anything is possible, including a few Barry Allens that don't feel like the typical Barry Allen.  Looking more at the mechanics of the movie character rather than the performer: does he still run like a speed skater?  'Cause that Zach Snyder decision really didn't sit well with me, especially how long it took to start running.  The whole running style looked goofy.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you feel John Wesley Shipp compared to the ideal Barry Allen?

 

Regarding the problematic CGI:  Marvel was in the spotlight recently as a key executive was let go, apparently in part due to the sub-par CGI of late.  Reports were saying that CGI studios brought in to work on the MCU were overtaxed with ridiculous deadlines pushed leading to poor-quality results.  I suspect that story may be broader than just Disney/Marvel, and may have been present in this movie, though if this movie was delayed by COVID issues, you'd think they'd be given a chance at a second look at their designs.  That said, the film may have been in the can already.

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

9 hours ago, Coin said:

There's a lot of good to it, Michael Keaton is fantastic and steals the screen every time he's on there and Sasha Calle is excellent as well, it's something of a shame we may never see her as Supergirl again if they do go the road of full reboot.

Keaton is what's going to get me in the door.  Period.
A "new" Keaton-Batman flick.
It's the only thing that's going to save this movie.

All the other stuff is totally "I could leave it."

 

[Coin]

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

Same scenario for me.  Lifelong fan (dating back to first runs of Super Friends where he guest starred), though I only collected a limited amount of comics regarding The Flash in the 1990s.  So, it's good to get thoughts from a similar viewpoint.

 

"...in the dreadful Flash movie".  Do you mean the Justice League movie? 

 

Ezra, even before all the front-page news, never felt like Barry Allen to me.  But then DC, like Marvel, has a multiverse where anything is possible, including a few Barry Allens that don't feel like the typical Barry Allen.  Looking more at the mechanics of the movie character rather than the performer: does he still run like a speed skater?  'Cause that Zach Snyder decision really didn't sit well with me, especially how long it took to start running.  The whole running style looked goofy.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you feel John Wesley Shipp compared to the ideal Barry Allen?

 

 

Bah, I got that wrong, yeah, I meant the JL movie, both versions. Hated them both.

 

And yes, he still has that stupid ice skater running effect, like he's running in slow motion but moving at super speed. Looks absolutely ridiculous. I mean, the super fast running of the CW looked a little weird, but at least it made more sense. Ands he STILL does that annoying pose before he starts running!! I mean, wtf?

 

John Wesley Shipp, I did enjoy back in the day, but was held back by poor special effects, like all those kinds of shows did at the time, but he was pretty decent. He was based more on the Barry Allen of the 80's/90's though, you know, when he was dead and Wally was the Flash, 😄 Still enjoyed his performance and loved seeing him come back in the CW in various forms as well 🙂

 

TBF, no adaptation of a character will ever be as perfect as what you have in your head, but the CW got closest for me. They played up the CSI/Police Scientist thing more, at least in the early days before it descended into the usual CW Romance sinkhole they all got into, but he was the closest I've seen yet. The CW did work the Flash Family/Legacy aspect a bit more as well, that's something I've enjoyed in the comics. The cameos and crossovers made more sense as well, unlike the random ones in the movie that just feel shoehorned in for the sake of it.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Industry news: while Flash is still stuck on a $70m opening weekend prediction - not great, not terrible, especially when there's been zero press tour or late-night appearances for any of the cast, and big-name corporate partners stayed well away from secondary promo (y'know: Happy Meals, Walmart merch, those cringey tie-in car ads - yeah, all trite stuff, but surprisingly effective at putting a flick into public awareness and butts on stalls)...

 

...it seems Gunn and Safran like Muschietti's work. So they've greenlit Batman: Brave And The Bold, based on Grant Morrison's run. This will be the official DCU Bat-starter, and Matt Reeves' work will be off in the Elseworlds. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Hyperstrike]

Saw it.
Decent Keaton Batman movie!
Two Ezra Millers in one film is three Ezra Millers too many!
The multiverse gags.  Okay.  One got a BIG smile outta me.
They actually did it.  Giant spider and all.
They resurrected one of the most shameful distortions of dead Jon Peters Superman canon.

[MyriVerse]

Saw it. Enjoyed it. Even the Ezra bits (even if he is a pale Barry Allen). It just makes the Ezra reality such a bigger tragedy. But I agree with the separating art from artist. Tons of artists are really disgusting bastards-- Elvis, Chuck Berry, Picasso, and the list is an endless douchebag, but even The Cosby Show is still great entertainment.

 

Not giving them your money is probably a sound idea. Buy tix for another movie and sneak in, maybe. 😜

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On 6/17/2023 at 9:01 PM, MyriVerse said:

but even The Cosby Show is still great entertainment.

...that is... a take for the ages. Knowing what I know now, there's just too many odd bits and jokes I'd just go yarghnonono at.

(Same as any time I ever see Louis CK in a room with a woman, and/or a pot plant. #StopAspidistraAbuseNOW.)

 

Music's easier to process out of context. I mean, the late great Tina Turner is known for Proud Mary, and because how much she OWNED THAT later on, just quietly erases the idea that Ike's name was first on the sleeve... and on the royalty cheques. 

 

BTW, it's possible people took your advice. Flash's four-day opening weekend wound up at $64m... $3m behind Black Adam. Not great.

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

BTW, it's possible people took your advice. Flash's four-day opening weekend wound up at $64m... $3m behind Black Adam. Not great.

 

Has there been any feedback as to why that is?  Ezra's antics?  Interest in other things during the same time?  Potential pariah status due to the DCEU being rebooted and this seen as part of the (largely) tepid previous DC movies?

[Frostbiter]

I'm waiting til it hit's Max to watch it.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

 

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

Has there been any feedback as to why that is?

 

To get butts on seats for a flick of this scale, you need:

1. Wide-opening distribution: you have to convince distro networks that this flick is worth booking on a large number of screens
2. Good audience word of mouth (positive reviews help, especially with a movie that's a relatively tough sell in Peoria like Dune, but audiences like what they like)
3. Wide-scale promotion - TV, internet, press tours, partner events and promotions, to get this into the forefront of ticket-buyers' minds. In the right way, of course, so you need...
4. The right promotion strategy - building up the talking points you want around the movie - managing audience expectations to give them enough to wanna see it, but not give the movie away. (eg: Jurassic Park and Avatar both teased everything apart from the biggest reveals in their campaigns. Those WOW moments then came through reviews and word-of-mouth. This year, the D&D flick went big on socials, word of mouth, well-targeted previews and playing up the fun aspect - even if I think they gave too much away.).

In Flash's case...

 

#1: Check. Industry types looked at the film, looked at the market, and even if cape flicks have been underperforming a bit lately, decided to take a big punt on it.

But that'd have been decided months ago. Possibly years, given the delays.

 

#2: ...ish. Reviews are "it's good, but", and... well, just read our colleagues' opinions above, and we're naturally more cape-friendly than the average population.

Definitely a mixed bag. People wanna see Badass Grandad Keaton, and without spoilering, he ain't around quite enough to see it through to the end.

 

#3: This was a problem. Sure, it's been all over TV and internet: per Deadline, Warners spent $31.7m on spots. But no interviews. No press tour. No late-night bits (Keaton is very good value for these... but was conveniently away filming Beetlejuice 2 at Pinewood. EDIT: I forgot - even if he'd been available, most late-night crews are shut down for the WGA writer's strike.) They practically had to roll Ezra into the premiere strapped to a trolley like Lecter. And no corporate partner wants to slap this guy on a lunchbox, have him buying their cars or Happy Meals, and that kind of secondary promo is a surprisingly strong way of doing things these days.

 

#4: Nope. Strategy has been solidly focussed on saying "it's a quality movie" and stressing Ezra's performance, all of which makes you more conscious That Stuff is hanging awkwardly over it. They've also given away WAY too much: you can watch almost the entire movie online already from promo clips, and other than the first Keaton reveal, there's barely a WOW moment left to tease. 

 

So if I had to sum up the industry buzz, it's good, but not quite as good as it thinks it is... and not enough to forget its issues.

That's not an easy thing to sell.

Edited June 19, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

I'm waiting til it hit's Max to watch it.

Not that I would encourage anything *COUGH*COUGH* ILLEGAL...But why wait that long?

[Frostbiter]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Not that I would encourage anything *COUGH*COUGH* ILLEGAL...But why wait that long?

 

I won't be waiting for it specifically, I meant that I won't be seeing it til it shows up on Max. My philosophy on life is that everything happens while you're busy doing other things.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Frostbiter