Illusion/x: How Early Can Perma PA Be Done?

[SuperFerret]

Pretty much what it says in the title. 

 

I want to make an Illusionist, and I'm aware that getting Phantom Army permanent is a key goal for building one. I also really like the earlier parts of the game and I've been mostly getting to 50 quickly, IOing out a build, and then going through the game through Ouroboros.

 

So I'm wondering how soon Perma PA is attainable. I know the secondary will have a lot of impact on this, but I haven't settled on one yet, so I'm open to suggestions. 

[Olly]

From my experience, you need to be level 50 because you need all the slots to IO for +recharge. Perma-PA is actually a pretty tight build, so you may want to consider builds that are 2-4 seconds off and consider using Phantasm or Ageless incarnate as a patch. The easiest secondaries would be /kin or /rad or /time on account of their +recharge powers. Maybe elec also. I've heard good things about +time, but have never tried it. Mid's will be a must, and basically just slot until you get PA's recharge time to 58 seconds or less. 

[Doomguide2005]

     Perhaps (unable to use Mids to try various builds, see exactly how much recharge needed) as low as 20th (doh, 22nd not 20th) while exemped.  That's the minimum level for the LotG specials and I suspect you'll need them to get the required global recharge to get it all perma as required (Hasten, AM and PA) assuming 5×10% (Purples, ATO's), 70% Hasten, 30% (AM), 37.5% (5×7.5% LotG), and any remaining amount required.

 

     As it happens Lingering Rad is also available at 20th.  Benumb is at 28th, etc., for any AV work.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Woops

[Mr. Vee]

It would be very tight trying to do it exemped but I think still being perma at 22 would be possible. You'd definitely need all the slots to 50 but you can figure on all the major sources still being there exemped to 22 if you use attuned versions where applicable (5x 10% from purp/ATO, 5x lotg, a 7.5 from basilisk). Call to Arms' 4-piece 6.25 could be hit twice. Depending on your secondary preventive medicine's 8.75 for 6 could be there. If there's any low level recharge help from your secondary like kin or rad it'd be much easier. Also I'd think you'd want offensive amplifier's 15% and sg base buff's 20 active at all times. 

[kelika2]

ill/kin, but then again its my uber ultramax +rech character with atos, epics and whatnot. and 3 50+5s in hasten

stacking siphon speed is huge.  i have 30-40s downtime in posi/synapes, and in yin its close enough to maybe be perma i guess

but level 27+ is when perma PA kicks in

 

also 50+5s in siphon speed, 2 acc 3 rech, at high levels its overkill but lower levels i notice it

Edited November 10, 2021 by kelika2
also

[Doomguide2005]

12 hours ago, kelika2 said:

ill/kin, but then again its my uber ultramax +rech character with atos, epics and whatnot. and 3 50+5s in hasten

stacking siphon speed is huge.  i have 30-40s downtime in posi/synapes, and in yin its close enough to maybe be perma i guess

but level 27+ is when perma PA kicks in

 

also 50+5s in siphon speed, 2 acc 3 rech, at high levels its overkill but lower levels i notice it

      More I'm thinking about it the more I'm curious why it's not perma at 22nd.  The only thing I can think of is the recharge enhancement aspect of the individual powers themselves.  But I've no ability either in Mids or by going on the Test server to see how badly exemplar is messing with things 🙁 (and it's way more math than I'm going to engage in).  Losing perma Hasten, for instance, would probably be impossible to overcome.  *wanders off to ponder exemplar effects on enhancements*

[roleki]

Not for nothing, Ill/Dark is very easy to perma-PA on account it has extra slots for LotG and you get them by 20, plus Dark Watcher -ToHit has +5% Rech in four pieces (Cloud Senses Accurate -ToHit has 6.25 in 4 pieces) and you can put those in almost everything in /Dark.  Doesn't hurt that /Dark is just about a perfect secondary from level 1 through 50+.

[SeraphimKensai]

6 hours ago, roleki said:

Not for nothing, Ill/Dark is very easy to perma-PA on account it has extra slots for LotG and you get them by 20, plus Dark Watcher -ToHit has +5% Rech in four pieces (Cloud Senses Accurate -ToHit has 6.25 in 4 pieces) and you can put those in almost everything in /Dark.  Doesn't hurt that /Dark is just about a perfect secondary from level 1 through 50+.

I have an Ill/da Perma PA troller. I sure fire it up and see how low I have Perma PA. I haven't really played the toon in a year or so. I'm guessing citadel tf range.

 

[Olly]

To clarify my post and others -- I read this as people talking about exemping to lower levels *after* they hit 50 and get their IO's and slots. I don't think anyone has actually said "you can do it at level X prior to hitting 50". I might be wrong, and if so, would like to see the clarification.

[EmperorSteele]

9 hours ago, Olly said:

To clarify my post and others -- I read this as people talking about exemping to lower levels *after* they hit 50 and get their IO's and slots. I don't think anyone has actually said "you can do it at level X prior to hitting 50". I might be wrong, and if so, would like to see the clarification.

 

Hypothetically, it might be... but you'd need 3-slotted Hasten, PA 3-slotted for recharge (never mind damage), 5 defense powers for LotGs (EDIT: Not so hard with illu, as it has 2 such powers by itself!) a KB aoe attack to trigger the Force Feedback proc, and a source of + recharge that can also stack or be made perma. For a level 20-ish build, that's asking a LOT.

 

Of course, now I want to try this, but I don't have time right now... maybe when I get home 😃

Edited November 16, 2021 by EmperorSteele

[EmperorSteele]

Okay, SO! It's possible... By level 28! On an Illu/Kin build that is otherwise really tight! PA is ONE second off perma... UNLESS you get lucky with a hit of Wall of Force, which will proc the FF special and supercharge your recharge! Hell, you could probably lose a lotg or use a different set somewhere, there's some flexibility here!

For some reason, Mids is saying Hasten only lasts 30 seconds when it's actually 120, but yeah, perma Hasten, too! Also, /Rad MIGHT work, but AM is only 30% recharge and barely perma, so you'd be relying a lot more on the FF proc kicking in.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 3.0.0.0
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/Hero-Designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(3), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Acc(A), Heal(7)
Level 2: Blind -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(7), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(9), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9)
Level 4: Weaken Resolve -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 6: Project Will -- Acc(A)
Level 8: Deceive -- WiloftheC-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), WiloftheC-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(11), WiloftheC-EndRdx/Rchg(11), WiloftheC-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(13), WiloftheC-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 12: Superior Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Wall of Force -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(15), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dam%(17), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(17), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 16: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), EndRdx(19)
Level 18: Siphon Speed -- Acc(A), Acc(21), RechRdx(21)
Level 20: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(23), RechRdx(23), Dmg(25), Dmg(25)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(27)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 2.5% Defense(Energy)
• 2.5% Defense(Negative)
• 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
• 2.25% Max End
• 3% Enhancement(Stunned)
• 3% Enhancement(Held)
• 3% Enhancement(Confused)
• 3.3% Enhancement(Terrorized)
• 6% Enhancement(Sleep)
• 18% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 6% Enhancement(Immobilized)
• 66.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 11.45 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Confused) 6.25%
• MezResist(Held) 6.25%
• MezResist(Immobilized) 6.25%
• MezResist(Sleep) 6.25%
• MezResist(Stunned) 6.25%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 6.25%
• 4.5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.25% Resistance(Fire)
• 2.25% Resistance(Cold)
• 1.5% Resistance(Energy)
• 1.5% Resistance(Negative)
  

 

 

[ninja surprise]

On 11/9/2021 at 3:52 PM, SuperFerret said:

I want to make an Illusionist, and I'm aware that getting Phantom Army permanent is a key goal for building one.

 

I'd tweak that goal to having Phantom Army up when you get to a new spawn.  Often there are breaks of a 10 - 20 seconds at least between spawns while clearing a map and running around.  It also depends on whether you're solo or on a team.

Even if you're mostly doing solo flashbacks in Ouro, you don't need perma if you're stealthing to the mission objective and clearing just a couple rooms or the boss spawn.

Still, it's a bit more fun to have it always available.

[LynxNordique]

Perma PA is more usefull to build an AV and TF soloer. Perma-PA allows the Illusion controller to do things a lot of other controllers, and also other toons,  will struggle a lot to do or simply can't do. Perma PA Illusion Controller can solo a lot of content, even level 54, without or with very limited use of temps powers (not even evenomed daggers, as a lot of controllers have great -regen power) and even limiting the use of incarnate abilities. There are other controllers that can solo AVs and TFs (Earth, Dark and Gravity, come to mind), but not necessarily finish alone level 54 Lord Recluse, level 54 Lanaru the Mad or level 54 Reichman and his 4 friends.

Edited December 10, 2021 by LynxNordique