Hover Defender!

[StriderIV]

Hi all!

 

I’ve never really played a “hover” hero, one that can just fly in and out of the battle, helping his teammates and dropping some baddies.

 

I was curious: what Defender primaries/secondaries do you feel really lend themselves to a hover hero?

 

I have one Defender, a Time/Rad and it is very in your face. Some combos I thought could work from range:

 

Elec/Elec

Dark/Ice or Elec

Storm/Elec or Ice

Edited February 13, 2022 by StriderIV

[Two Dollar Bill]

Any secondary should be fine, but I would avoid any primary that has critical buffs centered on you. Sonic Resonance, Force Field, Nature, Dark Miasma, etc. really work best if you are following the melee characters closely.
Primaries like Empathy, Pain Domination and Thermal, where you can buff and heal from long range, are ideal for flying around out of melee range. My most fun hover Defender is probably Pain/Energy.

 

[Doomguide2005]

     Agree with @Two Dollar Bill I would avoid sets with powers that can't be used at range, especially if they are important to the function of the build.  Essentially if it's an important PBAoE I would shy away from the set.  That said if it's on a longer timer such as a lot of Defender nukes I be more willing to get into close distance to fire it off.  Sonic Assault, for example, really only has Dreadful Wail as a PBAoE the remainder are ranged blasts.   

     It's interesting that you are looking at Electric Blast as it would personally not be on my short list owing to Short Circuit which I'd consider an important power but SC has two strikes against it.  First it's a PBAoE that is vital if you are going to try and leverage end drain as mitigation.  Second it has (did have?) a long cast/animation time, time you'll spend in close quarters to melee.  It defeats the purpose of using Hover/range as mitigation if you're spending time in melee with pretty much every spawn owing to using SC.  Flip side, of course, is Electric's nuke is a ranged nuke.

     Of the sets you mentioned I'd lean towards either Dark/Ice or Storm/Ice both of which consist almost entirely of ranged attacks or debuff powers outside of their Stealth auras.   The biggest drawback would be Dark's healing occurs around you, but those to hit and damage debuffs can make the amount of healing needing greatly reduced.  Storm/Ice can both slow overall movement and outright prevent Flight leaving you in control of the skies when the rare flying threats materialize.

 

[StriderIV]

8 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Agree with @Two Dollar Bill I would avoid sets with powers that can't be used at range, especially if they are important to the function of the build.  Essentially if it's an important PBAoE I would shy away from the set.  That said if it's on a longer timer such as a lot of Defender nukes I be more willing to get into close distance to fire it off.  Sonic Assault, for example, really only has Dreadful Wail as a PBAoE the remainder are ranged blasts.   

     It's interesting that you are looking at Electric Blast as it would personally not be on my short list owing to Short Circuit which I'd consider an important power but SC has two strikes against it.  First it's a PBAoE that is vital if you are going to try and leverage end drain as mitigation.  Second it has (did have?) a long cast/animation time, time you'll spend in close quarters to melee.  It defeats the purpose of using Hover/range as mitigation if you're spending time in melee with pretty much every spawn owing to using SC.  Flip side, of course, is Electric's nuke is a ranged nuke.

     Of the sets you mentioned I'd lean towards either Dark/Ice or Storm/Ice both of which consist almost entirely of ranged attacks or debuff powers outside of their Stealth auras.   The biggest drawback would be Dark's healing occurs around you, but those to hit and damage debuffs can make the amount of healing needing greatly reduced.  Storm/Ice can both slow overall movement and outright prevent Flight leaving you in control of the skies when the rare flying threats materialize.

 

You bring up a great point Doom. I’ll admit, I was mostly focused on the T9’s,  but that makes a lot of sense in regards to Elec blast. For example, my other Defender is a Time/Rad, which REALLY relies on it’s PBAEO’s, so just looking to switch it up.

 

Both Dark/Ice and Storm/Ice are great thematically. Do you fell that both function best on a Defender? I feel like Dark/Ice might with all the debuffs. Storm/Ice feels like it might work well on a Corruptor, due to Scourge and Dots in the kit. I could be completely wrong though.

[Onlyasandwich]

If you're looking for a great ranged secondary, /Ice is certainly up there. 

 

Another to consider would be /Beam, though it may not be on-theme based on the context here. Beam is 100% ranged, and even has a beautiful nuke.

 

Water is also 100% ranged, and has plenty of easy to use aoe options.

 

2 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Both Dark/Ice and Storm/Ice are great thematically. Do you fell that both function best on a Defender?

It's worth noting that none of the storm pets will scourge, and LS actually does more damage on a Defender (unless this has changed recently?).

 

I generally prefer Storm on Defenders, as the more powerful debuffs and extra pet damage help bridge the gap in damage, and you can get even further with appropriate proccing. Either would work fine of course.

 

I'd say Dark is 50/50. You'll still be able to stack enough -tohit between DN and FS even on a corruptor, and the extra damage will be simple to leverage. I do like not having to really rely on DN at all most of the time though - having all my normal -tohit needs covered in FS is really nice.

 

 

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Onlyasandwich said:

If you're looking for a great ranged secondary, /Ice is certainly up there. 

 

Another to consider would be /Beam, though it may not be on-theme based on the context here. Beam is 100% ranged, and even has a beautiful nuke.

 

Water is also 100% ranged, and has plenty of easy to use aoe options.

 

It's worth noting that none of the storm pets will scourge, and LS actually does more damage on a Defender (unless this has changed recently?).

 

I generally prefer Storm on Defenders, as the more powerful debuffs and extra pet damage help bridge the gap in damage, and you can get even further with appropriate proccing. Either would work fine of course.

 

I'd say Dark is 50/50. You'll still be able to stack enough -tohit between DN and FS even on a corruptor, and the extra damage will be simple to leverage. I do like not having to really rely on DN at all most of the time though - having all my normal -tohit needs covered in FS is really nice.

 

 

Great call outs! Good to know about Water, for some reason I thought it’s T9 was a PBAOE.

 

Also good call out on Storm. I have heard a lot of players say storm shines on a Defender. I could see a nice synergy with /Ice being able to keep mobs pinned down/slowed while Storm powers do their business.

 

For a Dark Defender, are there any secondaries that stick out to you as pairing well? I’m looking to run a “Dark” themed hero, toying with either a Dark Defender, or maybe Dark Dominator/Controller. I know you have a bit of experience across multiple archetypes, so I’d love to hear your thoughts!

Edited February 13, 2022 by StriderIV

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

For a Dark Defender, are there any secondaries that stick out to you as pairing well?

Just the general mix of more powerful secondaries - nothing really stands out majorly from a synergy standpoint.

 

• Dark/Dark is classic, but just a bit redundant in terms of debuff power, though it works fine.
• Dark/water is flexible and strong of course. You can stretch water's theme pretty well with proper tinting. Dark/Ice is similar in this regard.
• Dark/fire is worthy of consideration if theme works for you. We do have the dark tint these days after all! Since Dark/ has such powerful mitigation, you don't need to make anything up in your secondary, and can just go all out offensive with the super efficient attacks that /Fire provides. Friendly to hover Defendering.
• Dark/Rad is a little less common, but strong offensively (extra procs to slot), and has a secondary effect not otherwise present in Dark/ (-def) that you may find useful. Still less damage than /Fire of course. Not so great for a ranged Hover playstyle though. We used to call these "Mint Chocolate" Defenders back in the old forums. : ) 

 

If I were picking another AT, I'd go with Dom myself! Dark control is very strong, and Dom secondaries are pretty solid damage overall. However, optimal play will involve melee range.

 

If I were picking a controller to pair instead, I'd be inclined towards Dark/Storm (pets pets pets, damage out the bum). This is just my damage bias speaking of course - any secondary will work great.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

FYI the Psi Blast set has 20ft of extra range on all of its attacks, which lends it well to keeping at range. Weirdly though its nuke is PBAoE which kinda contradicts the rest of the set (a holdover from when nukes were used much less often). Shouldn't be an issue for you during most AV fights tho. That extra long range really can be useful at times.

 

Like someone said, Ice is a good ranged set. So are Water and Beam Rifle.

 

 

A set you didn't mention but which IMO is fantastic played as a hoverer is the newly updated Trick Arrow. 

 

[StriderIV]

16 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

FYI the Psi Blast set has 20ft of extra range on all of its attacks, which lends it well to keeping at range. Weirdly though its nuke is PBAoE which kinda contradicts the rest of the set (a holdover from when nukes were used much less often). Shouldn't be an issue for you during most AV fights tho. That extra long range really can be useful at times.

 

Like someone said, Ice is a good ranged set. So are Water and Beam Rifle.

 

 

A set you didn't mention but which IMO is fantastic played as a hoverer is the newly updated Trick Arrow. 

 

Good to know! Trick Arrow seems great, just would need to find a concept. I know you’re a Dom expert! Any Dark Dom suggestions?

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Just the general mix of more powerful secondaries - nothing really stands out majorly from a synergy standpoint.

 

• Dark/Dark is classic, but just a bit redundant in terms of debuff power, though it works fine.
• Dark/water is flexible and strong of course. You can stretch water's theme pretty well with proper tinting. Dark/Ice is similar in this regard.
• Dark/fire is worthy of consideration if theme works for you. We do have the dark tint these days after all! Since Dark/ has such powerful mitigation, you don't need to make anything up in your secondary, and can just go all out offensive with the super efficient attacks that /Fire provides. Friendly to hover Defendering.
• Dark/Rad is a little less common, but strong offensively (extra procs to slot), and has a secondary effect not otherwise present in Dark/ (-def) that you may find useful. Still less damage than /Fire of course. Not so great for a ranged Hover playstyle though. We used to call these "Mint Chocolate" Defenders back in the old forums. : ) 

 

If I were picking another AT, I'd go with Dom myself! Dark control is very strong, and Dom secondaries are pretty solid damage overall. However, optimal play will involve melee range.

 

If I were picking a controller to pair instead, I'd be inclined towards Dark/Storm (pets pets pets, damage out the bum). This is just my damage bias speaking of course - any secondary will work great.

 

This is great man, thanks! Dark/Water seems pretty sweet, maybe color the water to look like shadows. I’m thinking either Dark/Water or Dark/Ice. Dark has a way to keep baddies down in whirlpool/rain, which is nice.

[oedipus_tex]

48 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Good to know! Trick Arrow seems great, just would need to find a concept. I know you’re a Dom expert! Any Dark Dom suggestions?

 

 

Dark Control is an S-Tier Dominator set. You could combine it with anything and end up with a very strong character, but it does especially well paired with Fire, Dark, Savage, or Psi Assault.

[StriderIV]

28 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Dark Control is an S-Tier Dominator set. You could combine it with anything and end up with a very strong character, but it does especially well paired with Fire, Dark, Savage, or Psi Assault.

Well Dark/Dark could definitely fit thematically =P do any of those sets have a -Regen component for AV’s?

[oedipus_tex]

15 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Well Dark/Dark could definitely fit thematically =P do any of those sets have a -Regen component for AV’s?

 

 

Psi Assault has -500% Regen in Drain Psyche. I've never tried to kill an AV with it.

 

Some players have defeated AVs with Dark/Dark. Dark Assault has a ranged self heal, which is rare for Assault sets, and makes it possible to remain standing indefinitely vs an AV. Psi Assault sort of is that, but more for groups instead of AVs.

[Zeraphia]

Top tier options for "Hover" play:

 

#1 Cold Domination (this primary is so broken it's kind of ridiculous)

#2 Rad (you just don't use the high endurance cost choke power which is really meh in comparison to the massive debuffs it grants)

#3 Thermal (very good)

#4 Dark (also very good)

#5 Trick Arrow (gimmicky but the buffs to it made it a decent set worth considering and is purely ranged)
#6 Empathy (some people will rave about it, but in my honest opinion empathy has become a bit out-classed by sets that heal and do more things than it does)

 

For blast sets...

 

#1 Fire Blast (you do have to run in to use inferno occasionally but other than that it can be pure ranged and well Fire Blast is just... yeah...)

#2 Ice Blast (completely ranged, good slow, great utility)

#3 Electric Blast (rework definitely helped it and there is definitely a way to play it pure ranged)

#4 Beam Rifle (a very good and fine option)

#5 Archery (can have decent but not great DPS, some utility, can be thematic with Trick Arrow)

#6 Water (decent AoE but lackluster ST)

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Zeraphia said:

Top tier options for "Hover" play:

 

#1 Cold Domination (this primary is so broken it's kind of ridiculous)

#2 Rad (you just don't use the high endurance cost choke power which is really meh in comparison to the massive debuffs it grants)

#3 Thermal (very good)

#4 Dark (also very good)

#5 Trick Arrow (gimmicky but the buffs to it made it a decent set worth considering and is purely ranged)
#6 Empathy (some people will rave about it, but in my honest opinion empathy has become a bit out-classed by sets that heal and do more things than it does)

 

For blast sets...

 

#1 Fire Blast (you do have to run in to use inferno occasionally but other than that it can be pure ranged and well Fire Blast is just... yeah...)

#2 Ice Blast (completely ranged, good slow, great utility)

#3 Electric Blast (rework definitely helped it and there is definitely a way to play it pure ranged)

#4 Beam Rifle (a very good and fine option)

#5 Archery (can have decent but not great DPS, some utility, can be thematic with Trick Arrow)

#6 Water (decent AoE but lackluster ST)

Ice seems like it would be a great fit for a Defender. Trying to think thematically what would work. Thermal seems like a cool “Fire/Ice” deal. I didn’t know that Thermal also has -regen in it, which can help with AV’s. Seems to have quite a few tools in it’s kit.

[Enots]

Cold/Ice loved it so much I made and Ice/Cold Corruptor to play it again and then a Ice/Dev Hoverblaster. 

[Doomguide2005]

22 minutes ago, Enots said:

Cold/Ice loved it so much I made and Ice/Cold Corruptor to play it again and then a Ice/Dev Hoverblaster. 

Yeah, outside of my multitude of Emps my Cold/Ice was my go to among my Defenders and definitely stayed at range though not a Fly/Hover character (Super Speed for the stealth component).

[Voltak]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:06 AM, Two Dollar Bill said:

Any secondary should be fine, but I would avoid any primary that has critical buffs centered on you. Sonic Resonance, Force Field, Nature, Dark Miasma, etc. really work best if you are following the melee characters closely.
Primaries like Empathy, Pain Domination and Thermal, where you can buff and heal from long range, are ideal for flying around out of melee range. My most fun hover Defender is probably Pain/Energy.

 

 

Having a ton of practice with those sets, I can safely say that YOU SHOULD NOT AVOID THOSE SETS if you hover. 

Hovering will not kill the efficiency of your play.  
What might kill the efficiency of those sets is your technique or habits. 

You can hover and be efficient with those sets.  If you want or need proof, just look at my videos. I hover 100% of my support toons, regardless of sets.  Hover is among the best, or the best kind of defense for range toons. 

I play Sonic Resonance, Dark Miasma just fine while hovering and I know how far or how close to be.  
It's practice.  

[Without_Pause]

All I'm saying is I used Fly/hover on a Kin.

[ZeeHero]

What about Cold/Fire defender? you steal the heat from enemies, or take it from the air around allies to grant them ice armor, then throw the heat back as fire!

 

dang, now I need to make one.

Edited May 17, 2022 by ZeeHero

[TygerDarkstorm]

2 hours ago, Voltak said:

 

Having a ton of practice with those sets, I can safely say that YOU SHOULD NOT AVOID THOSE SETS if you hover. 

Hovering will not kill the efficiency of your play.  
What might kill the efficiency of those sets is your technique or habits. 

You can hover and be efficient with those sets.  If you want or need proof, just look at my videos. I hover 100% of my support toons, regardless of sets.  Hover is among the best, or the best kind of defense for range toons. 

I play Sonic Resonance, Dark Miasma just fine while hovering and I know how far or how close to be.  
It's practice.  

I was thinking the same thing. I hover on my water/sonic corr and my bots/nature MM and I don't have any issues jousting in and out of range of where I need to be to utilize my powers effectively. Often times you want things like FF and sonic's bubble on the ranged folks anyway and not the melee folks since melee tend to have their own mez protections built in.

[Carnifax]

I hover on my Time/Sonic. It's not hard to swoop in for a nuke every now and then.

 

Time does have the -ToHit/Dam aura but once you hit the 40s and defense is through the roof anyway it's not critical. 

 

[Voltak]

2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I was thinking the same thing. I hover on my water/sonic corr and my bots/nature MM and I don't have any issues jousting in and out of range of where I need to be to utilize my powers effectively. Often times you want things like FF and sonic's bubble on the ranged folks anyway and not the melee folks since melee tend to have their own mez protections built in.

It's all about habits and player skill. 

If your technique and skills are sharpened, you can do hover and still provide the buffs for the team.  Now, for players who like to split from the team... yeah.... sorry. 

[High_Beam]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:06 AM, Two Dollar Bill said:

Any secondary should be fine, but I would avoid any primary that has critical buffs centered on you. Sonic Resonance, Force Field, Nature, Dark Miasma, etc. really work best if you are following the melee characters closely.
Primaries like Empathy, Pain Domination and Thermal, where you can buff and heal from long range, are ideal for flying around out of melee range. My most fun hover Defender is probably Pain/Energy.

 

Yeah I was on two separate Silver Mantis TF's where I was doing aerial heal strafing runs on separated melee types working the turrets in a disorganized fashion.  Fun and frantic one was Empathy and one was Pain Dom.