Here it comes..a Regen suggestion!

[The_Warpact]

Ok, so I got to thinking, yeah, yeah we know how this turns out. Anywho, tell me if this is feasible.

 

A regen toggle for dmg types, so regen toggle for physical (S/L/T), elements (fire/cold), and energy (nrg/negative/psi).

They could be a resist set but slottable for res and heal sets. With the base rate pretty high for regen. I'm not calculating numbers or anything that's out of my scope aka attention span. 

 

And before anyone pyschs out and says willpower or bio, or there isn't anything wrong. Yes there is outside of Hami raids. The set ls a clicky mess, that's not the definition of Regeneration. 

When I think regen I think Wolverine or Deadpool not Dr. Quinn medicine woman. Hell to counter balance make it weak on mez, yes you regen from the damage but the actual hold or whatever would be killer on a regen. Think Magneto when he drops his mag hold on ole Wolverine. 

 

So...thoughts?

[Marbing]

But... Willpower!  err Bio   err... they perform well in Hami  I have nothing. 

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Ok, so I got to thinking

 

Also, that's not how damage types function.  You can't regenerate only Lethal, or only Toxic, because you're not regenerating damage, you're regenerating HP and HP has no type distinctions.  Once the damage is dealt, it's not Lethal or Toxic damage any more, it's just HP removed.  It might be possible to create HP type distinctions, but it'd be a load of work, two loads of testing and probably a couple of years at the earliest before it could begin beta testing.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Luminara

[Marbing]

I've always thought Instant Healing should go back to being a toggle, but maybe lower the regen on it a little bit to balance it out.

 

When I think regen I think high base regen, not situationally high for minute and clicky self heals. But thats my opinion. Regen needs to have insane regen numbers, not sometimes, but always and sustainable. To counter that it would need to lose something to balance it out. KB protection comes to mind and has been held away from other sets (DA, FA) so I could see it being held back from Regen if balance is a concern. Nothing about regen says I can take a shotgun blast to the chest and not move an inch. EDIT: Or maybe a lesser Hold Prot, or removed entirely as @The_Warpact suggested. Depending on just how much regen instant healing provides. 

 

EDIT#2: You could also take away Dull Pain and replace it with an always on auto +HP (like true grit from shield). That would get rid of 2 clickies. 

Just my two cents. For the little it is worth. 
 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Marbing

[The_Warpact]

23 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Also, that's not how damage types function.  You can't regenerate only Lethal, or only Toxic, because you're not regenerating damage, you're regenerating HP and HP has no type distinctions.  Once the damage is dealt, it's not Lethal or Toxic damage any more, it's just HP removed.  It might be possible to create HP type distinctions, but it'd be a load of work, two loads of testing and probably a couple of years at the earliest before it could begin beta testing.

My thought process was leveling. You start of being able to resist an ass beating..well that dmg at least. Since most low lvl thugs do s/l and snakes toxic for villains. As you lvl aka get stronger the elements f/c are next, and etc.

Level progression unlocks better abilities with the regen of each dmg type tied into it.

[Marbing]

13 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

My thought process was leveling. You start of being able to resist an ass beating..well that dmg at least. Since most low lvl thugs do s/l and snakes toxic for villains. As you lvl aka get stronger the elements f/c are next, and etc.

Level progression unlocks better abilities with the regen of each dmg type tied into it.

I like the out of the box thinking, I REALLY do. But, I don't think this would work mechanically. 

 

 

EDIT: ACTUALLY... you could possibly do this like Spectral Wounds in reverse, sort of. Have an ability that, when hit with a power that has the Lethal flag (for example) you trigger a small HoT (heal over time) to heal a portion of that damage back. I am not saying this is practical, but it could be the easiest way to accomplish what you are talking about. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Marbing

[The_Warpact]

3 minutes ago, Marbing said:

I like the out of the box thinking, I REALLY do. But, I don't think this would work mechanically. 

GAH! Foiled again! This era technology is lacking. 

[Marbing]

1 minute ago, The_Warpact said:

GAH! Foiled again! This era technology is lacking. 

See my Edit, it may actually be possible, in a way. Though, still admittedly a lot of work.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Marbing

[The_Warpact]

18 minutes ago, Marbing said:

See my Edit, it may actually be possible, in a way. Though, still admittedly a lot of work.

See thinking outside the box!

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

My thought process was leveling. You start of being able to resist an ass beating..well that dmg at least. Since most low lvl thugs do s/l and snakes toxic for villains. As you lvl aka get stronger the elements f/c are next, and etc.

Level progression unlocks better abilities with the regen of each dmg type tied into it.

 

The method of power acquisition doesn't matter, the engine just doesn't currently support the basic idea.  After the damage is removed from health, it's not typed any more, it's just less health.  The engine doesn't record the types of damage taken between HP ticks (it records damage taken, but not type, as lost HP), sort and categorize the typed damage for future reference (no code for that, though buff/debuff code might be adaptable), or check for and apply specific Regeneration buffs to each damage type (doesn't currently exist). And it may not be capable of doing all of that before the next HP tick (base 12s, cap varies by archetype, but scrappers and stalkers have the highest cap, 3000%, which is a tick every 0.4s) when latency and Arcanatime are taken into account, which would require more redesign to speed up the storing, sorting, calculating and application of the New and Improved Regeneration.

 

And even if they put the time into trying to make it work, they'd have to segregate Regeneration's specific typed regen from Health's regen, set bonus regen, Regeneration Aura's regen, and so on, just to keep Regeneration's rework from deleteriously impacting every character, which would leave Regeneration... well, kind of fucked in teams, since it wouldn't be receiving new Regeneration buffs, only regeneration buffs.  Or it would impact every character, which would open up some serious holes in a lot of characters' survivability.  Either way, it's more problems and headaches, more months of redesign and testing, more wrinkles to hammer flat.

 

There's "difficult, but possible", and then there's "Maybe next game".  I'm reasonably certain that this is the latter.

[Marbing]

15 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

The method of power acquisition doesn't matter, the engine just doesn't currently support the basic idea.  After the damage is removed from health, it's not typed any more, it's just less health.  The engine doesn't record the types of damage taken between HP ticks (it records damage taken, but not type, as lost HP), sort and categorize the typed damage for future reference (no code for that, though buff/debuff code might be adaptable), or check for and apply specific Regeneration buffs to each damage type (doesn't currently exist). And it may not be capable of doing all of that before the next HP tick (base 12s, cap varies by archetype, but scrappers and stalkers have the highest cap, 3000%, which is a tick every 0.4s) when latency and Arcanatime are taken into account, which would require more redesign to speed up the storing, sorting, calculating and application of the New and Improved Regeneration.

 

And even if they put the time into trying to make it work, they'd have to segregate Regeneration's specific typed regen from Health's regen, set bonus regen, Regeneration Aura's regen, and so on, just to keep Regeneration's rework from deleteriously impacting every character, which would leave Regeneration... well, kind of fucked in teams, since it wouldn't be receiving new Regeneration buffs, only regeneration buffs.  Or it would impact every character, which would open up some serious holes in a lot of characters' survivability.  Either way, it's more problems and headaches, more months of redesign and testing, more wrinkles to hammer flat.

 

There's "difficult, but possible", and then there's "Maybe next game".  I'm reasonably certain that this is the latter.

Did you see my suggestion above? I think technically its possible in a way. Though admittedly maybe not practical. 

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Marbing said:

Did you see my suggestion above? I think technically its possible in a way. Though admittedly maybe not practical. 

 

That approach would be possible.  Check damage type, activate relevant heal which is baked into the Regeneration powers (as opposed to adding a Regen-only HoT to all attacks in the game).  Wouldn't even be difficult to implement, just grab the SW code and tweak it.

 

The "-19.5748 points of Special damage (all affected targets) after 10s" function is the relevant bit.  The time before activation would have to be altered to pull its information from the character's current regeneration rate, and the amount of damage healed would also have to be matched to an equivalent HP tick if it's intended to mimic regeneration, but it would actually be relatively simple to implement.  Since it's simply adding HP back via the Special Damage mechanic, it wouldn't require specific typed damage in the heal, only for checking damage type to determine whether to activate the heal.

 

Yeah, that's totally doable, and wouldn't impact any non-Regeneration characters in any way.  It might need some numerical jiggering or a check for external regeneration buffs to ensure it wasn't completely over the top, but that's just tweaking.

 

⭐

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

That approach would be possible.  Check damage type, activate relevant heal which is baked into the Regeneration powers (as opposed to adding a Regen-only HoT to all attacks in the game).  Wouldn't even be difficult to implement, just grab the SW code and tweak it.

 

The "-19.5748 points of Special damage (all affected targets) after 10s" function is the relevant bit.  The time before activation would have to be altered to pull its information from the character's current regeneration rate, and the amount of damage healed would also have to be matched to an equivalent HP tick if it's intended to mimic regeneration, but it would actually be relatively simple to implement.  Since it's simply adding HP back via the Special Damage mechanic, it wouldn't require specific typed damage in the heal, only for checking damage type to determine whether to activate the heal.

 

Yeah, that's totally doable, and wouldn't impact any non-Regeneration characters in any way.  It might need some numerical jiggering or a check for external regeneration buffs to ensure it wasn't completely over the top, but that's just tweaking.

 

⭐

To continue with our other thread...a CROSSOVER.

 

 

 

 

 

[fancy ketchup]

Whatever happens (if something ever happens).. I'm not for any status protection woes. It already takes a hit in that department IMO and I work around it with incarnates/ power pools/ IOs.

 

I mean if it takes a hit tho.. I would probably still play it and I'll find a way around it. 😁 I enjoy the set.

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

 

And before anyone pyschs out and says willpower or bio, or there isn't anything wrong. Yes there is outside of Hami raids. The set ls a clicky mess...

 

 

Most sets are pretty standard "non-clicky messes". Mechanically, they all function the same with small little outliers like WP's higher regen in a crowd or Shield Defense's AoE attack...but fewer sets have clickiness as their mechanical difference (namely only Bio, Regen and Fiery Aura which have more than 2 clicks that aren't the tier 9 and even that's a bit different since Bio only has 2 but it also has exclusive toggles that you're *supposed* to swap between working as more management but no one actually does that).  It's usually just 1 click and the rest are autos and toggles.

 

I outline that to perhaps appeal to reasonableness in thinking that some players might want to have reactive defense as an option to choose and not only auto-defense. It's the same with people who like Dominators or Blasters: some just want to make things dead and others find it entertaining to defend yourself with controls first.

 

3 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

that's not the definition of Regeneration. 

 

When I think regen I think Wolverine or Deadpool not Dr. Quinn medicine woman.

 

Wolverine and Deadpool aren't regenerating either (at least not the examples you'd want to use).  When their arm gets blown off and then they have it back several panels later, that's healing.  To be regen, you tend to suffer the damage and then there are transitionary periods where the damage is lessened and then functionally repaired and then eventually completely healed...but no one has time for that in a video game unless the game is deliberately slower paced and has significant downtime.

 

What you're looking for is Willpower.  It does exactly what you want it to. Don't be fooled by the name.

 

3 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Hell to counter balance make it weak on mez, yes you regen from the damage but the actual hold or whatever would be killer on a regen. Think Magneto when he drops his mag hold on ole Wolverine. 

 

So...thoughts?

 

I'd prefer the other way around. Keep Regen reactive with clicks but make the user subsequently more resilient to various effects like debuffs or even mez effects if he's actively using those clicks.

 

As for Magneto vs Wolverine: Wolverine has that metal skeleton...like a whole other layer of resistance...like an armor that isn't specifically about healing at all.  The magnetism thing, though, is mostly just a story consideration. Wolverine doesn't seem particularly vulnerable to other mez effects like vines, mental mez or anything.

[The_Warpact]

7 minutes ago, fancy ketchup said:

Whatever happens (if something ever happens).. I'm not for any status protection woes. It already takes a hit in that department IMO and I work around it with incarnates/ power pools/ IOs.

 

I mean if it takes a hit tho.. I would probably still play it and I'll find a way around it. 😁 I enjoy the set.

Procs....the same for any hole in any set.

 

Just now, Naraka said:

 

Wolverine and Deadpool aren't regenerating either (at least not the examples you'd want to use).  When their arm gets blown off and then they have it back several panels later, that's healing.  To be regen, you tend to suffer the damage and then there are transitionary periods where the damage is lessened and then functionally repaired and then eventually completely healed...but no one has time for that in a video game unless the game is deliberately slower paced and has significant downtime.

 

What you're looking for is Willpower.  It does exactly what you want it to. Don't be fooled by the name.

 

 

I'd prefer the other way around. Keep Regen reactive with clicks but make the user subsequently more resilient to various effects like debuffs or even mez effects if he's actively using those clicks.

 

As for Magneto vs Wolverine: Wolverine has that metal skeleton...like a whole other layer of resistance...like an armor that isn't specifically about healing at all.  The magnetism thing, though, is mostly just a story consideration. Wolverine doesn't seem particularly vulnerable to other mez effects like vines, mental mez or anything.

Now now we need balance. Don't come on here mucking it up your rl science in comics.

I actually just rolled a WP my first and he's at 12 so give me a bit.

[Frozen Burn]

Well, I guess I'm gonna be "that' guy... Regeneration is basically okay, but it could use some tweaking... 

 

First, It's not Clicky.  Yes, there are clicks, but there is only 1 that you click often:  

• Reconstruction - a straight up heal like Healing Flames or Dark Regen that you use when needed.  Yes, you click it every now and again like DA & FA.  This is the only "clicky" power.
• Dull Pain - this is where most people use it wrong. 
  • Most people wait until they are in the middle of battle to click it and use it as a heal - yes, that makes it "clicky."  But the more HPs you have, the more you regen.  So going into battle without DP already up, is like any other set going in with one of their armor toggles off, then stopping their attack chain to turn on that armor - that's just stoopud. 
  • Also, DP can easily be made perma - so it can be on autofire every 2 mins.  And there are binds you can use to make multiple powers on auto-fire (like Hasten + DP), if you're concerned about that. 
  • But even if not on auto-fire - it's a 2 min recharge!  So this really isn't "clicky."
• Instant Healing - similar to DP in that it has a long a recharge but can typically get it down to 3-3.5 mins.  So, currently NOT "clicky" either.
  • I believe this recharge is WAY too long and should be cut down 1.5 to 2 mins.  Also the base regen rate needs to be increased if it's going to be a click power.  (I would vote to make this a toggle again.) 
• Moment of Glory - The recharge on this can be gotten down to ~2mins recharge.  That's not "clicky."  
  • The duration of this needs to be boosted or the recharge lowered for this power to be viable.  

That's 4 powers and 3 of them have recharges of 2-3.5 mins.  How is that "clicky?"  I click more on most other powersets and ATs than I do regen.  If you really want to talk about "clicky" - try Electrical Affinity!

 

With IO Sets and Bonuses you can still get decent resistance and defense bonuses to make your regen similar (not identical - but similar) to Willpower.  And obviously, these bonuses let you regen more.  

 

Making Regen weak to KB or mezzing is... no, just no.  It already sucks that FA and DA are weak to KB and we have to waste valuable slotting on special IOs or sets to overcome that.  That's not giving a set an "Achilles' heel" (which I am ALL for), it's forcing the player to ruin ideal slotting to get the protection they already should have.  And in the example of Wolverine vs Magneto - Wolvy was held from the Metal skeleton he had - not because there was a weakness to his regen.  I doubt Magneto could hold Deadpool.  

 

Also, something that most people don't do with their regens, is kite or runaway a few secs so they can regen.  I see most regens stand their ground and try to take all the incoming damage that is being dealt - and that's a recipe for disaster - and then they die.  Regen now is not like it was back when the game first came out and you could do that.  This version of regen's weakness:  you can't stand and take all incoming damage and survive like that... you have to work to slow the rate of incoming damage down so you can regen faster than it. 

 

So click an occasional button (like other sets), KB/KD your foes to give you a few secs (that's part of why Claws/Regen is so great - for the KB/KD), eat some inspires (like anyone else would), or duck around a corner for a few secs.  Deadpool, would get an arm cut off, run away, let it grow back, and then go fight some more.  

 

So, some tweaks to IH and MoG, and the set would be fine - in my opinion, of course.  🙂    

[The_Warpact]

13 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 Deadpool, would get an arm cut off, run away, let it grow back, and then go fight some more.  

Poor DP

 

 

Anywho, the post was excellent, and yes ppl do try to use Dull Pain that way, go perma or go home! Anyways, I'll let you in a secret, this Suggestions section should've been called the flights of fancy section or great ideas but nah.

 

I'm in fully agree with you, it does need tweaking. I offered a suggestion that popped in my head, will it happen lmao...no no it won't but it creates discussion and hopefully certain powers that be, go oh great they're talking about it AGAIN.

This in turn is my subtle hint to do something about it, I'm in it for the long con Freezer Burn.

[fancy ketchup]

5 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Poor DP

 

 

Anywho, the post was excellent, and yes ppl do try to use Dull Pain that way, go perma or go home! Anyways, I'll let you in a secret, this Suggestions section should've been called the flights of fancy section or great ideas but nah.

 

I'm in fully agree with you, it does need tweaking. I offered a suggestion that popped in my head, will it happen lmao...no no it won't but it creates discussion and hopefully certain powers that be, go oh great they're talking about it AGAIN.

This in turn is my subtle hint to do something about it, I'm in it for the long con Freezer Burn.

I use dp after a few hits because im a cheap bastard in regards to health/hp.. all that aside I brought this up with GM_Bot but he told me he was busy nerfing regen atm..

[SeraphimKensai]

Make IH a toggle, and set it's Regen to -100000% with such a low number maybe it will glitch and be a positive improvement in functionality. Let's nerf Regen to the point it's OP!

[Naraka]

12 minutes ago, fancy ketchup said:

I use dp after a few hits because im a cheap bastard in regards to health/hp.. all that aside I brought this up with GM_Bot but he told me he was busy nerfing regen atm..

 

I agree.

 

Play the set how you want. I don't use DP off recharge. In fact, I don't put *any* powers on auto-cast.

 

My personal prescription on Dull Pain, leveling up and in regards to utilizing the power to its full potential is simple: Instead of using Reconstruction, use Dull Pain *first*. 

 

If you need healing and Dull Pain is already used, *then* use Reconstruction.  Benefitting from the higher HP is mostly for staving off alpha strikes which you can do with other powers so for that, it's going to be case-by-case depending on your character.  If you have no other tools to stop that alpha from taking you down before you can even heal, then sure, use DP before you jump in. The extra regen you'd get from perma-DP is primarily just helping to delay needing to use a click heal (Reconstruction).

[Darkneblade]

Make Instant Healing.... instant. Crazy I know.
Get rid of recharge
Now it is spammable but you need to manage your endurance as well.

Though endurance management is too good nowadays. So everytime you use it there should be -max end for 10 sec? idk

[Outrider_01]

Add burst healing to Reconstruction and Dull Pain, some decent ticks like +75/+200 hp every 2 seconds for 20 seconds. Regen can take alpha strikes and stay topped off for a short time. 

 

Add regen resistance, maybe a decent resist in Reconstruction. Get hit by cot boss mage, take damage, pop Reconstruction and gain resistance to regen debuff.

 

Add a regen buff modifier to Dull Pain, like Power Boost. DP, Instant Heal, gain more for 10 seconds or something.

 

Add some absorb. Yeah it's starting to be a Bio clone but it's got 3 clicks already, just to be buffed. 

 

Regen doesn't need to be pure toggle and AFK super regen. Can still be regen in bursts over short time with zero defense and low resist.

 

Alternatively is to nerf Assualt rifle and bring it down to Regen level. At the same time, Regen is brought up to the new Assault Rifle and everything is just right in a post-I4 world with Enhancement Disfunction syndrome.

[Troo]

Oh dear gawd..

 

First, thanks @Frozen Burn

Second, if folks wanna make a new set, just make one. no need to recreate the wheel.

Third, Wolverine has a 'Healing Factor', and no offense but folks look silly when they try and argue differently.

(Regeneration is not Wolverine, it is a CoH powerset that does what it does)

 

 

 

@The_Warpact keep the ideas coming. Scaling regeneration based on incoming damage is totally doable. Making it specific to damage types might be over complicating it.

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

So...thoughts?

 

😁