Add a fun RP/PvP Zone Event!

[desarix]

Make sure you give plenty of warning when the event is so I can stay away. I despise PvP being shoved down my throat.

Edited May 30, 2022 by desarix

[Rudra]

You can pretty much tell who on the forums is a PvP'er or not by this thread. The PvP'ers are all "Yeah! Let's do this!" while the PvE'ers are "Oh hells no!".

[InvaderStych]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:52 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Let me see if I can address some of the questions.

 

Posting here because the thread in General has devolved into folks hurling thinly veiled insults at each other over gaming preferences, which kind of reminds me of the time I watched a group of Karaoke kids get bent out of shape at a bar because Open Mic Poetry Night ran long and the two groups were just shy of coming to blows.  Almost the nerdiest turf war I've ever seen.  I say almost because gaming forums exist. 😄

 

For the record:

 

I fully support allocating Dev time and Resources to improving the PvP experience, and suggest that the PvP community focus their efforts in that direction rather than attempting to create PvP events that impose upon players who are not interested in them for whatever reason.  Some of us either prefer our PvP elsewhere (me, for example) or simply do not wish to engage in any form of PvP gaming.  No matter the reason, the desire deserves to be respected. Full stop.

 

As to fielding questions:

 

What about Numina teams?  Are they supposed to put their TF on hold because one of the numerous street hunts happens to be in a zone suddenly flagged for open PvP?

 

What about players who are in the middle of a mission which they started from a PvE zone, then exit that mission to discover the PvP event has begun in the interim?

 

Or players who are in the middle of an arc where the next mission door is in a zone with an active PvP event? Or being sent to a new contact in said zone?

 

There are countless ways an event like this could catch someone out, and simply "Go play somewhere else for a while" is neither a good enough answer nor a sign or respect for those players.

 

On 5/27/2022 at 1:52 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Remember, people don't have to stay in the zone. And, if they do, they don't actually have to PvP. They can just search for the spawn point of the Mental Control Transmitter and the Nemesis troops guarding it.

 

Emphasized portion is basically unpossible.  Historically (and correctly), entering a PvP zone is consenting to PvP.  If you are in zone you are a viable target. Period. This is as it should be and as it should remain.

 

Again, I have no qualms with the PvP community, and hope they get the Dev attention they rightly deserve.  PvP in this game could use a whole host of improvements in order to increase engagement and broaden said community.  Shoe-Horning PvP into PvE zones, no matter how temporary, is not going to achieve those goals.

[Rudra]

I was going to say that there would also have to be safe zones. And if you are currently PvP in a PvE zone, you will be blasted/1-shot by all drones. However, that would require extensive re-coding, and not prevent someone who was PvP from attacking people in the hospitals. After all, getting droned sends them to the hospital. (Edit: Though a PvP'er stuck in a hospital because (s)he keeps getting droned trying to leave would be relatively hilarious. Unless (s)he could not get back out. Then it would suck.)

 

So how about, just no. No worrying about opting in or out. No worrying about establishing non-PvP areas in non-PvP zones. Not worrying about players on TFs, Ouroboros arcs, current contact arcs, or what-have-you having to sit and wait for 20 minutes before they can resume what they were already doing. PvP stays in PvP areas.

 

If there is to be an event or anything else to entice dedicated PvE'ers into PvP zones for something everyone can enjoy? Great! More options for play for everyone! It has to stay in the PvP zones or arenas though.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Rudra

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

Strange analogy inasmuch as PvPers and PvEers do not need to wait on the other party in order to do their thing. PvPers have an open world event any time they want. They just have to go to a zone. 

 

The analogy was for the now locked thread in General, specifically.  Not the two communities in general. 🍻

 

In order to avoid another Wall Of Text By Stych:

 

I appreciate the idea of it being "Opt-in," but that won't stop people from using chat to harass those who are in zone but not participating.

 

Still a hard no from me.  Whenever a hard-core PvE only player comes along to complain that there are badges/temp powers gated behind PvP Zones we all kindly (some less so) remind them that PvP Zones are for PvP and entering that zone is consent to engage.

 

PvE zones deserve the same level of respect.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by InvaderStych

[SwitchFade]

Sorry, hard no vote.

[Black Zot]

9 hours ago, Rudra said:

 (Edit: Though a PvP'er stuck in a hospital because (s)he keeps getting droned trying to leave would be relatively hilarious. Unless (s)he could not get back out. Then it would suck.)

 

 

That's called "serves you right".

[krj12]

I vote no for a couple of reasons.

1.  The number of players interested in pvp is small.  Spending dev time on something that the majority have no interest in is wasted time.

2.  Forcing players to engage in pvp or leave the zone is just not right. 

[Rudra]

I disagree with reason #1. Just because a subset of the player base is small in number does not mean they should not get equal attention for game development. They may not get equal development/content because our current dev team is a small group of part-timers, but they still deserve equal consideration and attempts at game improvement. I just don't consider the OP a game improvement.

[High_Beam]

On 5/27/2022 at 2:36 PM, Coyotedancer said:

Yeah... no.

 

The lack of "open world" PvP is one of the reasons I liked playing City.

... And having it pop up in random zones (via Rifting-) is a big part of why I eventually walked away from Aion. It wasn't fun. It was a pain in the ass.  

This.  PvP in specific zones was was more than enough for me and the player base as a whole when you look at the numbers (or lack thereof).  PvPers can do their thing, I am not saying its evil or  anything.  How has incentivizing things worked out so far when the incentive is either a one-time thing (like a badge) or a powerful temp power (like a Warburg rocket).  Incarnate powers made the powerful warburg rockets relative junk in comparison.  Back on live we used to run SG events in Sirens to collect the badges or in Warburg to collect the rockets and would sometimes even shout out in Broadcast that we were there so the PvPers could attack and what happened was one or two would show, see a group of 8 and decide not to engage becuase most were built as or played as gankers.  Again, they can do what they want and if I roll into a PvP zone for badges and get killed, fair play, I tip my hat to you because I knew the risks going in.  This is why the concept of temp spawn PvP wont work.

 

Eve Online has Security levels that in effect break it up into three different PvP zones.  One is the "safe" zone (Hi-Sec) where there is almost no PvP. Gankers do exist but are immediately themselves killed by the security aparatuses in the region.  Low-Sec is PvP zone but people are often more cautious and you can operate with some degree of ease, but don't fly what you cant afford to lose is the motto over there.  Finally there is Nul-Sec which is the freaking wild west, you can get shot for snoring over there.  But ultimately it was about accepting risks.  I don't care for PvP and even though Eve is a PvP-centric game, I could generally experience the bulk of the content and therefore enjoy the game with little worry about getting blown up.  BUt I wasnt complaining about it becuase that was the deal.

 

In CoH PvP was bolted on after-the fact.  Does it belong in the game?  Sure.  No online game shouldn't have the option to at least try it but the venue is important.  Personally I despised the arenas becuase they enforced a concept of heroes dueling to bragging rights and that just isn't how heroes work, it broke concept.  Now specific heroes fighting specific villains in duels (aka mano y mano) is very comic book and thematic which is why the PvP zones were more palatable to me.  But with Going Rogue and the extreme ease by which characters can flip-flop between alignments (and I am not even talking about Null the Gull) it rendered the hero-versus villain duel irrelevant.  It erased the line and therefore an incentive to go to the PvP zones.

 

Ask yourself why Drowning in Blood is an instanced version of Bloody Bay and not the real thing?  Because if someone said "Forming DiB team LF5M" this would be followed by "DiB Kill Team LF7M"

[Panthonca7034]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:02 PM, Ghost said:

Imagine logging into Atlas with your brand new lvl 1 alt….. in the middle of this event

 

Yeah, that’s a big giant NO from me

 

As far as RP events go: 

 

Excelsior, Torchbearer, Reunion, and Indomitable would have to be excluded because no one ever RP's in those shards (at least from my recollection I NEVER saw any RP going on on those), and Everlasting would be the only place to hold such an event as Everlasting is the Unofficial RP Server. 

 

As far as PvP events go:

 

Indomitable would be the sole location for any PvP events of any kind, because it is considered the Unofficial PvP server, HOWEVER.... The PvP event could only work if you got two players who have a toon that has a rivalry with each other and the only way for said players to be able to work out their differences or fight one another (to advance their storyline) COULD work in an RP scenario if done correctly. 

 

Allow me to elaborate "The Heroic super "Handsmacker" has finally had enough of his Praetorian evil scoundrel self known as "Handsmasher" trashing his reputation that now the two must battle it out in a brutal onslaught of combat, WHO shall win? Will the cunning and conniving Handsmasher succeed in destroying Handsmacker's reputation? Or will the valiant and noble Handsmacker triumph in reclaiming his lost prestige? TUNE in to the raging battle of Player vs Player!"

 

Aside from non RP, PvP Event may not work outside of the unofficial PvP shard, and outside of the unofficial RP server, RP will not work in the non RP servers.

 

 

But that's just my two cents

Edited June 1, 2022 by Panthonca7034
Correction, wording errors caused by massive migraines >.<

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, Krimson said:

There's RP on Excelsior. I've seen it. I've been invited to it. I turned it down. But it exists.

 

 

From what I've heard through the grapevine, there's been a bit of a migration from Everlasting to Excelsior over the past several months as some people have found Everlasting too cliquish.   So that tracks.

[The Larker]

Interesting to note that all I see is responses from PVErs.

Wonder how the PvPers view this, but, from what I've seen so far of this "tolerant" group of folks I don't think y'all would give a flying eff.

 

Hell, I better not say anything else I don't want to be considered a pvp sympathizer.

 

 

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, The Larker said:

Interesting to note that all I see is responses from PVErs.

Wonder how the PvPers view this, but, from what I've seen so far of this "tolerant" group of folks I don't think y'all would give a flying eff.

 

Hell, I better not say anything else I don't want to be considered a pvp sympathizer.

Shame on those of us that don't want non-consensual PvP foisted upon us!  Yeah - remind me again how wanting to force something on others makes you the "tolerant" one...

[The Larker]

6 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Feel free to let us know when you find some.

From what I've read they hang out on Discord, I wonder why.🤔

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, The Larker said:

*here comes the pitchforks*

 

Actually, I didn't say anything about what the OP suggested. I said..well read it again. I wondered what the PvPers thoughts on this thread or idea were.

But, from what I've read and I'm now experiencing y'all are some hostile mother fuckers if you don't like something, thats not tolerant. That's the opposite, but, hey if the consensus of like minded individuals don't like any opposing ideas or any ideas other than their own, then I get it, its called something.....

 

 

So please, take a chill pill, go poop, or go rub one out, whatever calms you down. 

Look up "paradox of tolerance" - you are literally asking why people won't tolerate actions that are, by definition, intolerant.  Go pose your thoughts about PvP in a new thread, if you're not referencing the OP.

[The Larker]

2 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I'm on the Discord right now. What's the thread name? This I have to see.

This is all know, and I've read in other threads thats where they are at. I dunno I don't pvp.

 

https://discord.com/invite/ACfXPxK

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Panthonca7034 said:

"The Heroic super "Handsmacker" has finally had enough of his Praetorian evil scoundrel self known as "Handsmasher" trashing his reputation that now the two must battle it out in a brutal onslaught of combat, WHO shall win? Will the cunning and conniving Handsmasher succeed in destroying Handsmacker's reputation? Or will the valiant and noble Handsmacker triumph in reclaiming his lost prestige?

And then plot twist! They turn out to be the same person, just one exists while the individual is awake and the other exists while the individual is asleep! 😄

 

Bear with me, I'm not mocking your post. This is a trope I have read before on a few occasions and could be rather fun to see play out. The two bitter rivals are the same person or otherwise intimately linked such as by being twins. Is usually a fun story, even if a bit predictable.

 

Discarding my derailment of your example? That's a good RP PvP bit you provided.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, The Larker said:

Interesting to note that all I see is responses from PVErs.

Wonder how the PvPers view this, but, from what I've seen so far of this "tolerant" group of folks I don't think y'all would give a flying eff.

 

Hell, I better not say anything else I don't want to be considered a pvp sympathizer.

 

 

There's @The_Warpact's post on the first page in favor of.

 

And yes, it can be difficult to be tolerant of something forced upon you. Ever heard of mandatory fun? Wanna guess how fun that always turns out? And now there is a suggestion to mandate PvP in a place where PvE'ers can normally expect to not have to deal with it. If the PvE'ers ask to not have to abide by PvP in a PvP zone, they get burned alive by the PvP'ers. And to be fair, that is the correct response. Now the shoe is on the other foot and you are alarmed that PvE'ers are equally protective of their PvE zones as PvP'ers are of their PvP zones.

 

Where I'm from, that is called hypocrisy.

[The Larker]

47 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There's @The_Warpact's post on the first page in favor of.

 

And yes, it can be difficult to be tolerant of something forced upon you. Ever heard of mandatory fun? Wanna guess how fun that always turns out? And now there is a suggestion to mandate PvP in a place where PvE'ers can normally expect to not have to deal with it. If the PvE'ers ask to not have to abide by PvP in a PvP zone, they get burned alive by the PvP'ers. And to be fair, that is the correct response. Now the shoe is on the other foot and you are alarmed that PvE'ers are equally protective of their PvE zones as PvP'ers are of their PvP zones.

 

Where I'm from, that is called 

49 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There's @The_Warpact's post on the first page in favor of.

 

And yes, it can be difficult to be tolerant of something forced upon you. Ever heard of mandatory fun? Wanna guess how fun that always turns out? And now there is a suggestion to mandate PvP in a place where PvE'ers can normally expect to not have to deal with it. If the PvE'ers ask to not have to abide by PvP in a PvP zone, they get burned alive by the PvP'ers. And to be fair, that is the correct response. Now the shoe is on the other foot and you are alarmed that PvE'ers are equally protective of their PvE zones as PvP'ers are of their PvP zones.

 

Where I'm from, that is called hypocrisy.

 

I really don't care I just wanted to know what the PvPers thought, but, from your post you spoke for them.

And now that you gave me a history lesson on the mutual hatred between the 2 factions and taught me all about hypocrisy with an example! (squuueee) I'm complete. Now that contentment is finally part of my life I'm one with the universe.

 

Thank you, may the blessings of the *insert your favorite diety* be upon you.

[Rudra]

I pointed you to a response you said was not in the thread and gave a reason for the ongoing commentary. Apologies for offending.

[The Larker]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I pointed you to a response you said was not in the thread and gave a reason for the ongoing commentary. Apologies for offending.

Nah, it's all good. Its the internet it never comes off as intended. 

 

10 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Wait... so are there any PvPers in this thread at all? 

I don't think so thats why I said what I said initially. The thread seems lop sided, I just wanted someone from the pvp community to respond. 

 

But really its a Suggestion so....take it as a grain of salt.

 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

15 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Wait... so are there any PvPers in this thread at all? 

I don't always PvP.

 

But when I do, it's on my Imperial Agent Sniper.

[The Larker]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I don't always PvP.

 

But when I do, it's on my Imperial Agent Sniper.

I have a Space Shuttle Door Gunner

[Panthonca7034]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

Wait... so are there any PvPers in this thread at all? 

 

I'll be honest and speak... Yes! I have done some PvP, HOWEVER it was only to further advance a storyline me and a friend of mine built up with our characters, and that actually turned out to be quite fun and creative. PvP when used with Roleplaying out a battle and building dialogue can actually be a pretty cool experience, and you feel like you're writing a comic book in real time. But PvP just for the sake of it feels like CO (Champions Online) and that I don't miss nor like 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

And then plot twist! They turn out to be the same person, just one exists while the individual is awake and the other exists while the individual is asleep! 😄

 

Bear with me, I'm not mocking your post. This is a trope I have read before on a few occasions and could be rather fun to see play out. The two bitter rivals are the same person or otherwise intimately linked such as by being twins. Is usually a fun story, even if a bit predictable.

 

Discarding my derailment of your example? That's a good RP PvP bit you provided.

 

Lol, I had to come up with a good example on-the-fly based on a real experience, so yes I had to get creative :D

 

Point being, PvP when combined with RP can actually work, but by themselves, well, only RP can work by itself and PvP only if combined with RP...