Suggested QoL change - Pool Power Standardization

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Dude, do you know what lying actually means?

 

Yup. The following statement is a lie.

 

37 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Ok so it's power creep when it's something you don't want. Gotcha.

 

It came from you making you a liar. You seem to have a problem with people calling you a liar when you lie. Perhaps you should stop that.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

If anyone is completely lost, buffing underperforming powersets up to a midline isn't power creep. It's just game balance. Nerfing overperforming powersets to a midline is also just game balance.

 

Why people freak the fuck out at nerfs is something I don't understand and never will as long as the nerfs make sense numerically in comparison to what's being nerfed. Buffing everything to a single outlying overperforming powerset/power/AT WOULD be power creep. This ain't rocket surgery.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It came from you making you a liar. You seem to have a problem with people calling you a liar when you lie. Perhaps you should stop that.

Maybe you should stop being so emotionally invested in this exchange, it seems to be hampering your ability to reason.

What I wrote is my assessment of your stances on this issue. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it a lie. It's an opinion.

But again, this is consistent with how you've been throughout this discussion. You lack the ability to relate to people that think differently about an issue. As in:

 

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Why people freak the fuck out at nerfs is something I don't understand and never will as long as long as the nerfs make sense numerically in comparison to what's being nerfed.

 

Simple answer: Not everyone thinks the same way you do.

[Bill Z Bubba]

38 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

What I wrote is my assessment of your stances on this issue. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it a lie. It's an opinion.

 

Wrong again, liar. An opinion would be BIG EDIT: "I like vanilla ice cream. I hate nerfs. I love buffs."

 

Instead, you categorically stated as fact my motivations while being hysterically wrong making you a liar. I could pretend that you're just misguided and not flagrantly spreading falsehood because you have no ability to defend your arguments but then I'd also be a liar and we can't have that.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Wrong again, liar. An opinion would be "it appears to me that it's only power creep when it's something you don't want based on my failed attempts at understanding the English language."

 

Instead, you categorically stated as fact my motivations while being hysterically wrong making you a liar. I could pretend that you're just misguided and not flagrantly spreading falsehood because you have no ability to defend your arguments but then I'd also be a liar and we can't have that.

LOL. Ok Miss Manners lemme address both your original post and the BIG EDIT post: 

1. It appears to me that you have an unprecedented level of butthurt over a simple pithy statement. I suspect that this is a distraction from the subjective nature of your statements upon which I and other people have remarked. I do find it amusing. 

2. I hate your bad ideas about nerfing. I think that other people, probably most of the player base, would hate them too. I think you should stop hiding in someone else's suggestion thread and post your own thread calling for these broad nerfs and see what kind of response they actually garner. Not that you care what other people think, but there are objective assessments that could be made from the responses.

3. The new tagline is fucking hilarious. Chef's kiss.

 

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

LOL. Ok Miss Manners lemme address both your original post and the BIG EDIT post: 

1. It appears to me that you have an unprecedented level of butthurt over a simple pithy statement. I suspect that this is a distraction from the subjective nature of your statements upon which I and other people have remarked. I do find it amusing. 

2. I hate your bad ideas about nerfing. I think that other people, probably most of the player base, would hate them too. I think you should stop hiding in someone else's suggestion thread and post your own thread calling for these broad nerfs and see what kind of response they actually garner. Not that you care what other people think, but there are objective assessments that could be made from the responses.

3. The new tagline is fucking hilarious. Chef's kiss.

 

Sure, no one likes seeing something they like get nerfed. To keep all sets and powers competitive though? Nerfs are as essential as buffs. If one set outperforms every other set on the same AT? It needs to be nerfed. If one set can't keep up with the other sets on the same AT? It needs to be buffed. That's routine in video games. You can hate it all you like. I don't like nerfs either. It doesn't take away the need for them to be used from time to time though.

[Troo]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

This ain't rocket surgery

 

If anyone is completely lost..

 

Rocket Surgery
(n) The hardest fucking thing imaginable. It's combining Rocket Science and Brain Surgery. Be careful while doing it.

A mixed metaphor describing a non-existent, yet implicitly high level of qualification.

I had to look this up..

in-b4-the-lock

 

///////////

 

So is it power creep to be able to select Resuscitate without a prior power pick? Cross-Punch? Answer: Maybe (but potentially work-able)

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Troo

[Ghost]

The mods must be asleep

[battlewraith]

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

Sure, no one likes seeing something they like get nerfed. To keep all sets and powers competitive though? Nerfs are as essential as buffs. If one set outperforms every other set on the same AT? It needs to be nerfed. If one set can't keep up with the other sets on the same AT? It needs to be buffed. That's routine in video games. You can hate it all you like. I don't like nerfs either. It doesn't take away the need for them to be used from time to time though.

Outperforms in what way? Farming? Pvp? Pylon tests? Specific enemy groups? You complain about cookie cutter builds and min maxing, and then turn around and advocate a one size fits all mentality on game balance. Moreover, what he's talking about here isn't nerfing for balance. He wants to roll back global changes to revisit a previous era of development for which he has nostalgia. I didn't say I hate nerfs in general. I said I hate the notion he's pushing. I believe most people still playing the game would.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

Moreover, what he's talking about here isn't nerfing for balance. He wants to roll back global changes to revisit a previous era of development for which he has nostalgia.

 

Lying again. What is wrong with you? I have stated repeatedly that it's ALL about balance. Finding performance midlines, nerfing overperformers, buffing underperformers.

 

What you seem to be latched onto is me stating all pools should be standardized and if that means making all T3/T4 powers available at 14 so be it. If it meant allowing all T3 powers to be available at lvl 4, as with movement powers, it would be a case of some pretty global power creep.

 

That's a far cry from rolling back global changes out of nostalgia. Liar.

[arcane]

16 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Sure. As I'm pool locked to Fighting, Leaping, Flight, Speed and Body Mastery, I drop boxing and take focused accuracy and stick the Guassian CFBU in it. Conserve Power and the Perf Shifter CF+end (edit: in Phys Perf) cover the end cost. Edit2: And if that doesn't cover the end cost, since we're talking pylon times, I swap ageless core for barrier core and cover the end cost AND get rid of that .17 pause between chains that I have now. DPS goes up.

Example is too complicated. If we leave SR out of it there are tons of scenarios in which skipping Boxing/Kick will afford you another space for an LotG mule. DPS increased. Easy.

 

Anyway, people that don’t understand the mathematical truth that things eventually spiral out of control if they only ever undergo positive change are… a bit dim tbqh.

Edited July 11, 2022 by arcane

[InvaderStych]

16 minutes ago, arcane said:

Example is too complicated. If we leave SR out of it there are tons of scenarios in which skipping Boxing/Kick will afford you another space for an LotG mule. DPS increased. Easy.

 

Even easier.  My Fire/MC blaster, freed of the need to take Boxing, would simply add Assault - measurable DPS increase solo and for the entire team when I team.

 

And that's even more hilarious because even as a less-than-ideal-probably-meme-worthy decision it is still a net gain in DPS with no trade-off what-so-ever.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by InvaderStych
Because.

[battlewraith]

I don't think anybody is arguing that this change couldn't lead to a DPS increase. Obviously if that's your thing, knock yourself out. The question that the naysayers continue to duck is whether that added damage, for those that seek to pursue it, is actually significant. The examples here are silly. Another LotG slot. Oh the humanity. Adding assault on a blaster--with no trade off! Except the added end cost of running assault. Which is probably overkill on a decently built blaster and redundant on a team with buffs that is probably at damage cap already.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Outperforms in what way? Farming? Pvp? Pylon tests? Specific enemy groups? You complain about cookie cutter builds and min maxing, and then turn around and advocate a one size fits all mentality on game balance. Moreover, what he's talking about here isn't nerfing for balance. He wants to roll back global changes to revisit a previous era of development for which he has nostalgia. I didn't say I hate nerfs in general. I said I hate the notion he's pushing. I believe most people still playing the game would.

Oh no! If all the sets on an AT perform roughly the same, people may actually play more power sets than 1-3 best sets! *gasp* The world is coming to an end because we have the ability to use all sets and not be penalized for it! Run for the hills! We will have the creative freedom to make what we want and not be stuck running the exact same builds with the exact same power sets as everyone else! You know, like you claim to want but never seem to actually want.

 

They aren't cookie cutter. They may perform more or less equally when balanced, but they have different effects, different damage, different animations, and so forth. I'm talking about equal performance. Not cookie cutter everyone uses these exact same powers on everything, but you already knew that, didn't you?

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

They aren't cookie cutter. They may perform more or less equally when balanced, but they have different effects, different damage, different animations, and so forth. I'm talking about equal performance. Not cookie cutter everyone uses these exact same powers on everything, but you already knew that, didn't you?

 

It's hard to tell whether you just don't get it or are lousy at explaining yourself. 

 

Take a certain context, like a farming brute. Obviously certain sets and builds are clearly better for this task than others. So what then does balance mean in this situation? All the brute builds should be equally good at farming? The builds that are good at farming should also be on par doing things like AVs? What?

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

They may perform more or less equally when balanced, but they have different effects, different damage, different animations, and so forth. I'm talking about equal performance.

 

This is a contradiction. If they truly have different characteristics, performance should vary depending on the situation. Otherwise those different effects and whatnot are just superficial surface details. And if those differences in characteristics are actually significant, certain sets and builds might become standard picks for players, not because of imbalance, but because they are most suited to the content that players enjoy running. Or they're just more fun for some reason.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The world is coming to an end because we have the ability to use all sets and not be penalized for it!

"Let's provide everyone with rigorous, standardized mediocrity so that I don't have to worry about another set outperforming mine."

 

 

[The_Warpact]

[Troo]

[arcane]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:19 PM, Luminara said:

 

1 is a small amount.

 

1 + 1 is slightly larger amount.

 

1 + 1 + 1 is still larger.

 

1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 is a fucking lot.

 

That's why it's referred to as power creep.

Bumping this post for the benefit of people that are proposing dozens of buff ideas in this subforum and claiming each one is too insignificant to worry about. Thanks.

[battlewraith]

Here's a couple variations to consider:

 

1 is a small amount. 

 

The devs, in the course of a couple years, enact five changes. So:

 

1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5. 

 

Five is.....probably still a small amount.

 

 

1 is a small amount.

 

0 is a smaller amount.

 

The devs  do zero.

 

No innovation. Loses interest. Goes to play another game.

[Rudra]

51 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Take a certain context, like a farming brute. Obviously certain sets and builds are clearly better for this task than others. So what then does balance mean in this situation? All the brute builds should be equally good at farming? The builds that are good at farming should also be on par doing things like AVs? What?

Your argument is farming? We're talking game content and you're arguing farming? Farms are specifically set up for specific builds. Fire farms are set up for fire brutes/tankers. Smash/lethal farms are set up for invulnerability characters and other characters with max smash/lethal defense and resist. So you want to argue niche for balance? Or rather, to be able to throw balance out the window. Yep, you're done.

[GM Kal]

This is a suggestion forum.
Not a debate the suggestion forum.

Closed.