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KB to KD toggle


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16 hours ago, Talsiar said:

My understanding (based off inference, I have by no means looked at code and am not an authority on how CoH works)

This kind of speculation based on implementation details would not be very helpful _with_ some familiarity with the code. Without, I'm afraid it really is completely pointless. Yes, it wouldn't work exactly like any existing power - no more than Bodyguard mode did when it was implemented. No, that isn't a reason to suppose it would be hard to implement.

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I appreciate your position that people who haven't looked at the code shouldn't make technical recommendations.  Having looked at the power data I can actually now say that MM pets are specifically flagged to not accept caster mods to the power, while Bonfire is flagged to allow those mods, so at base level a toggle for the MM would actually be completely useless for their pets but successfully make their version of Bonfire overpowered.

 

Since we are now in a situation of having to apply some amount of unique code to the solution, I feel moderately confident in saying it's no longer as simple as making a toggle power that applies % reduction to KB strength to the user and call it a day.  The point remains valid that I am not versed in the code base enough to say how complicated that problem is, nor would I attempt to.  I'll leave considerations for that to the development team, as well as the detailed pro's and con's for any given solution since they have both more vested interest and greater insight than most people here would. 

 

Per the stickied thread, I'm just providing feedback on a thing that is a pain point to me, and my hope that whatever solution is chosen I would like it to:

 

1) Help every character class, including MMs, and not be a bandaid fix that helps 90% only.  This is mostly because the odds of the last 10% getting a fix are greatly diminished once the greater portion is appeased

2) Preferably a change that does not penalize people who want KB on some/all of their powers.  I may not understand their preference to have such and may not use a system that allowed such, but I don't want their opinions quashed for my own play style.

 

That said, as I'm sure the devs have read pretty much every possible suggestion or recommendation of a fix since live, I'll refrain from any further speculation and just reiterate my support for a change whenever a thread or opportunity to do so arises.

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If Knock of any kind had its own additional damage associated with the mechanic, this wouldn't really be an issue.  As it is, knock is just disruptive-- it messes up herding, it messes up AOE attacks and debuffs, and it can lead to unintended aggro.  If NPCs got an extra helping of damage when tornado flings them around a room, that would be awesome and make a little more sense.  Storm summoning is one of my all time favourite sets, but it is build wrecking to have to neuter the knockback out of my power set.  Add some + damage, or rework knock mechanics to make them more of a control, such as trapping enemies within a vortex without hurling them away.

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On 7/19/2022 at 1:31 PM, Rudra said:

I am against the free advantage on specific powers. I don't care if it saves 1 slot. I don't care if it saves 1 million slots. I don't care about the slots. I care about the fact this thread is effectively asking for a free advantage.

 

So you've been against every buff to anything ever added to the game? Because that's all any buff is: a sudden "free advantage" that didn't exist before the change.

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I will never understand the "only buffs, no nerfs" crowd. Only being satisfied with an "I Win" button is no way to balance anything.

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You are willfully misconstruing my statement. The buffs that have been added were not existing procs that people are demanding be incorporated for free. This request is like someone asking to have KD, a hold, or disorient added to attacks like Slash from the Claws set. You can already do that. You just have to slot the proc for it. I am completely against taking any proc and automatically incorporating it into the power sets. You want a proc that is already available for those powers to affect those powers? You slot the proc.

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26 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You are willfully misconstruing my statement. The buffs that have been added were not existing procs that people are demanding be incorporated for free. This request is like someone asking to have KD, a hold, or disorient added to attacks like Slash from the Claws set. You can already do that. You just have to slot the proc for it. I am completely against taking any proc and automatically incorporating it into the power sets. You want a proc that is already available for those powers to affect those powers? You slot the proc.

 

That's fair.

 

KB is numerically inferior to KD. Sure, it can be fun to watch when one is in the mood for it, but that's a different topic.

 

Since I am a balance junkie, ok, there should be a cost to turn KB to KD because it makes the power a superior version of itself. Ridding my emp/nrg defender of KB surely made her vastly better than she was.

 

Guess I'm now on the side of nope for the toggle idea.

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I will never understand the "only buffs, no nerfs" crowd. Only being satisfied with an "I Win" button is no way to balance anything.

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