Permadom W/O hasten

[Pharce]

I really like doms. I'm decent at playing them and building them but by no means great. I recently decided to make a permadom without hasten. 

Dark/Rad I got him to 50 kitted him out and he is a lot of fun to play. Though Rad is kinda a weird bag for me. I made a bunch of inf with him. Then decided to make another one(i'm sold on dark as a primary). I made a Dark/NRG the survivability is awesome and the damage output really good, again no hasten(127.5% global recharge). I like the idea of set it and forget it. I have several doms with hasten that I won't change they are a lot of fun.

 

So questions to you all: Have you made permadoms without hasten? What power sets? how do you like it?

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Pharce said:

So questions to you all: Have you made permadoms without hasten? What power sets? how do you like it?

 

I have not nor have I ever been tempted to.  There's far too much you must sacrifice to chase solely recharge that it really ends up gimping your potential.  Doms are the most slot starved and bonus hungry creatures already.  Hasten just offers too much efficiency in one power, in essence you're getting the value of 7 purple sets of 5 slots (not including other bonuses you'd get).

 

Yes it's doable but the sweet spot is a well built dom with Hasten.  

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Pharce said:

So questions to you all: Have you made permadoms without hasten?

 

My Dark/Martial and Grav/Fire dominators are both at 150% global +Recharge without Hasten or the Increase Attack Speed empowerment buff, Domination on auto.  The Dark/Martial also has Link Minds bound to mouse4... and I frequently forget to activate it, which is why I don't take Hasten on dominators (or any character with even a single long recharge click buff that i'd set to auto).  I log in to play, not to watch timers.

[DocMidknight]

  I've made 2......and I love them but it was a hard road but managed to get permadom and good survivability , Mind/dark and dark/dark. If you can achieve permadom without hasten and not sacrifice damage, defense or resists then go for it but if any of these are lost then take hasten

[DocMidknight]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 I log in to play, not to watch timers.

 

   This comment sums up everything

[Mezmera]

19 minutes ago, DocMidknight said:

 

   This comment sums up everything

 

I appreciate there's the ability to be able to build for perma dom without Hasten because it's too hard to watch for an ATs all important ability to show up to activate again.  So for the casual players that can't adapt to this I'm glad perma is achieveable without Hasten.  

 

On that same token doms are and have always been a race car not suited to the play style of every person that plays this, which is perfectly fine since there's tons of alternatives.  You can build a dom for a Sunday stroll or to be the meanest thing on the track.  That's the best thing about this AT.  

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mezmera

[DocMidknight]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

 

I appreciate there's the ability to be able to build for perma dom without Hasten because it's too hard to watch for an ATs all important ability to show up to activate again.  So for the casual players that can't adapt to this I'm glad perma is achieveable without Hasten.  

 

On that same token doms are and have always been a race car not suited to the play style of every person that plays this, which is perfectly fine since there's tons of alternatives.  You can build a dom for a Sunday stroll or to be the meanest thing on the track.  That's the best thing about this AT.  

 

 

    

   The fun thing about dominators is that they vary from player to player. 2 players can have the exact same build but get completely different results based on how they play.......do they mow down entire mobs like a buzzsaw or do they stroll in and maybe toss a confuse and watch the show while picking off the stragglers. I went about making a non hasten dom as a........."wonder what I can do with this kinda thing" as well as being based on me getting easily distracted by things.........my wife describes it as me having the attention span of a 5 year old. It was a lot of work and even more influence as I built and rebuilt to get something I enjoyed but in the end it's just a game and seeing what's possible while still being fun is why I play. 

[Flat Line]

I tried with a Mind/Energy.

For the same reason above, I didn’t want to have to watch the hasten timer.

My plan was to use Sudden Acceleration in the ranged Energy attacks. That way I wouldn’t be loosing out to much on set bonuses.

 

Turns out it just didn’t proc enough to work. So, I’m back to using hasten.

[laudwic]

11 hours ago, Flat Line said:

I tried with a Mind/Energy.

For the same reason above, I didn’t want to have to watch the hasten timer.

My plan was to use Sudden Acceleration in the ranged Energy attacks. That way I wouldn’t be loosing out to much on set bonuses.

 

Turns out it just didn’t proc enough to work. So, I’m back to using hasten.

 

You mean the Force Feedback Proc, right?  I've just started an Earth/Energy and I'm curious how if putting that Proc in a good number of powers is worth it.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

I personally build my domis to have permadom for the Penny Yin TF. Once that is done I ramp up survivability.

 

Doing so often requires Hasten.

Edited August 11, 2022 by SeraphimKensai

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, laudwic said:

 

You mean the Force Feedback Proc, right?  I've just started an Earth/Energy and I'm curious how if putting that Proc in a good number of powers is worth it.

 

 

It is not.  All of those attacks already recharge real fast.  Of the best attacks you'll be using you can slot it in Power Burst and Snipe but with Total Focus netting you a big damage bonus with Power Burst you'll have it set to recharge fast to combo with TF.  I have the Force Feedback proc in my Snipe only since it has the most optimal recharge for consistent firing.  

 

With it in Snipe I averaged it out to be about a 20-35% recharge boost over a minutes time as long as I'm constantly attacking as opposed to that 7.5% constant recharge the Manticore set nets me.  Sometimes it fires quite often and sometimes barely fires but on the low end at 20% it still maths out to be better than that 7.5%.  

[Riverdusk]

I tried one long ago and it worked pretty well, think it was a plant/psi.  Now a days you could even get by with as little as 90% global recharge or so thanks to P2W (+15% for up to 8 hours if you don't mind spending the inf) and the base empowerment buff (+20% for 90 minutes, and cheap).  That'd get you to 125% recharge even without hasten.  

 

What I hate is having to restart my dom meter every time I go afk for more than 2 lousy minutes.  Makes doms probably the least "casual" or "real life interrupts" friendly AT there is unless you can hit that 125% without hasten. 

 

But, only having to worry about redoing it once every 90 minutes with the base buff I don't find too bad and the base buff is pretty cheap.  So I pretty much count on at least that extra "free" 20% and shoot for 110-115%, which you can do without quite as much sacrifice of other things.

 

Oh, and I still typically grab hasten though, as if you are going to get to 110% global recharge, that also gives you perma hasten anyway, for when you do want to click that button.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Riverdusk

[Flat Line]

4 hours ago, laudwic said:

 

You mean the Force Feedback Proc, right?  I've just started an Earth/Energy and I'm curious how if putting that Proc in a good number of powers is worth it.

 

Yes, that’s the one!

 

You definitely notice when they go off. But, they don’t stack with each other (Mids makes it seam like they do).

They also create their own frantic playstyle where you feel like you need to constantly attack and fish for the proc. At that point it defeats the purpose, and I may as well just use hasten…

[Bill Z Bubba]

I have one with permadom w/o hasten but the build still has hasten. Dom is on auto and I click hasten when I see that it's ready.

 

You need 123% global recharge [ ((200-90)/90))*100 and rounded up ] for it to work. 5 purples gives 50%, 5 LotGs gives 37.5%, so that's still another 35.5% you have to get from other set bonuses, temp buffs, day job powers, etc. Doable, yes. Nice to set up as soon as you log on and never have to worry about again? Yes, of course.

 

But plenty of powers want even MORE recharge and that's where hasten comes in. I think I have 1 50 without hasten and it's a pure concept build not geared for performance.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[BlingBaby]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I have one with permadom w/o hasten but the build still has hasten. Dom is on auto and I click hasten when I see that it's ready.

 

You need 123% global recharge [ ((200-90)/90))*100 and rounded up ] for it to work. 5 purples gives 50%, 5 LotGs gives 37.5%, so that's still another 35.5% you have to get from other set bonuses, temp buffs, day job powers, etc. Doable, yes. Nice to set up as soon as you log on and never have to worry about again? Yes, of course.

 

But plenty of powers want even MORE recharge and that's where hasten comes in. I think I have 1 50 without hasten and it's a pure concept build not geared for performance.

This is how I built my Mind/Energy//Psi. I like the idea of just setting Domination to autofire and having it go on its own. I have Hasten and Mind Link bound to my Q and E buttons, respectively. I'm considering binding Power Boost to a button as well, but don't have that done yet. Focusing on recharge, I find it pretty easy to cycle Power Boosted Unleash Potential and Mind Link with Barrier to keep myself with pretty high defense most of the time.

 

Incidentally, without Hasten, I can still lose permadom by having a long animation power go off, being slowed, or by queuing up a power that is slightly out of range and having that take the place of the autoclicked Domination button. So, I like the idea of being able to perma while having the benefits of Hasten, but not depending on Hasten.

[Flat Line]

1 hour ago, BlingBaby said:

This is how I built my Mind/Energy//Psi. I like the idea of just setting Domination to autofire and having it go on its own. I have Hasten and Mind Link bound to my Q and E buttons, respectively. I'm considering binding Power Boost to a button as well, but don't have that done yet. Focusing on recharge, I find it pretty easy to cycle Power Boosted Unleash Potential and Mind Link with Barrier to keep myself with pretty high defense most of the time.

 

Incidentally, without Hasten, I can still lose permadom by having a long animation power go off, being slowed, or by queuing up a power that is slightly out of range and having that take the place of the autoclicked Domination button. So, I like the idea of being able to perma while having the benefits of Hasten, but not depending on Hasten.

This sounds great!
I’ve been using Mind/Energy/Primal - Mostly for the AoE attacks. Slotted for knockdown, Energy Torrent and Energy Blast also add more control.

I was planning on Mind/Energy/Soul - To try for better defences (but haven’t tried it yet)

 

But Mind/Energy/Psi with a lot of recharge sounds great for concept! I also really like the idea of casual hasten, but not needed for perm dom.

 

How are your defences without boosting from powers? I like to keep ranged at 35-45. 

[BlingBaby]

1 hour ago, Flat Line said:

This sounds great!
I’ve been using Mind/Energy/Primal - Mostly for the AoE attacks. Slotted for knockdown, Energy Torrent and Energy Blast also add more control.

I was planning on Mind/Energy/Soul - To try for better defences (but haven’t tried it yet)

 

But Mind/Energy/Psi with a lot of recharge sounds great for concept! I also really like the idea of casual hasten, but not needed for perm dom.

 

How are your defences without boosting from powers? I like to keep ranged at 35-45. 

Well, my defense  without any clickies is pretty low for a melee character. I have around 18% melee and basically 15% to everything else. Recharge takes the place of most defense bonuses. Powerboosted Unleash Potential gets me close to softcap without Link Minds. By itself, Powerboosted Link Minds gets me close to 30% melee (less to others). This isn't including Barrier at all--without it, I still have the feast or famine mentality when it comes to defense.

 

Honestly, I just got sick of building for the softcap, so I just added some recharge-based methods to keep my defense highish for a while. I really just need decent defenses for long enough to lock down or outright destroy a group--or at least whittle it down to a couple bosses, which I can hold easily enough.

 

Edit: I do note that your build seems primarily ranged. Mine is basically a striker/control brawler. I'm poking my Mind/Dark build atm, trying to make it perform similarly at range. I might find your build helpful.

Edited August 12, 2022 by BlingBaby
Took a look at the quoted build, forgot to comment.

[Flat Line]

Thanks!

 

Those numbers help a lot. I’m going to play around with a new build based around what you’ve got. Sounds fun to play!

 

My plan with the above build was to get near caped ranged defence and blast/control from hover.

 

[tidge]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:47 PM, Pharce said:

So questions to you all: Have you made permadoms without hasten? What power sets? how do you like it?

 

My Plant/Electric was able to get (at level 50, with Superiors) perma-Domination without Hasten (or Force Feedback %+Recharge). I didn't think it was too much of a compromise, as I was able to include all the powers I wanted, with the slotting I wanted. I even was able to %proc a cone attack from the secondary (that is: negligible set bonuses, if any). The Primary/Secondary powers I wanted just happened to offer lots of opportunity to get Global Recharge bonuses. That build includes two different travel pools.... one of them is Speed, and it includes Hasten (as a level 30 choice) which I suppose I could have swapped in at a lower level, but I simply prefer having Super Speed available for low level TFs... as opposed to try for perma-Dom at lower levels.

 

The only "compromise" I feel like I made for that character is that by sacrificing a LotG %Recharge (mule) power pick, and/or sacrificing some slots (contributing to Global Recharge) I could make the character slightly more durable... but I prefer having perma-dom on true auto-pilot (zero extra key-presses, including movement binds).

 

 

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Flat Line said:

 

I see things I would do differently, but the only one I feel compelled to speak to is that I would swap the sets in Confuse and Mass Confusion. The %Contagious Confusion %proc is better in the single-target power, and the AoE power is a better spot for %damage.

[Flat Line]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

I see things I would do differently, but the only one I feel compelled to speak to is that I would swap the sets in Confuse and Mass Confusion. The %Contagious Confusion %proc is better in the single-target power, and the AoE power is a better spot for %damage.

That’s a very fair point.

I’ve been back and forth on it. 
I find I like Contagious on Mass Confusion at higher levels. But, it’s definitely better on Confuse at lower levels.

 

Thinking about it, I might switch it back… it’s nice to have a build that also exemplars well..

[Riverdusk]

11 hours ago, BlingBaby said:

 

 

Incidentally, without Hasten, I can still lose permadom by having a long animation power go off, being slowed, or by queuing up a power that is slightly out of range and having that take the place of the autoclicked Domination button. So, I like the idea of being able to perma while having the benefits of Hasten, but not depending on Hasten.

 

Yep, which is why I always build for a bit more than 123% even if that is what is technically all that is needed.  The dom I remember from back in the day had exactly 125% and even then it wouldn't always quite fire off in time and would occasionally reset.  I think just a hiccup of server lag can also mess it up. 

 

127.5% is what I remember having as the true safe number being to where I never had an issue.

 

That was back on live servers, so maybe it runs smoother on HC though, haven't gotten that much in the weeds over here on testing it.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Riverdusk

[tidge]

7 hours ago, Flat Line said:

That’s a very fair point.

I’ve been back and forth on it. 
I find I like Contagious on Mass Confusion at higher levels. But, it’s definitely better on Confuse at lower levels.

 

Thinking about it, I might switch it back… it’s nice to have a build that also exemplars well..

 

Beyond Exemplaring (and the effect of enhancements within the power itself; e.g. there is no reason to eschew recharge on a single-target confuse slotted with a complete Coercive Persuasion set) there is a subtle secondary benefit from slotting %damage in the slow AoE confuse powers.

 

Any amount of damage you do to an enemy offers you the chance to get a reward drop when that enemy is defeated; the trade off is that those enemies now have aggro.

 

I am well aware that there are some players who prefer to have a non-aggro spawn subject to confusion, but I prefer to have my mission clear times improved AND keep my chances at Purple/PVP drops as high as possible(*1). When I can, and I am not particular about getting a set bonus, I slot the slow AoE confuse with the two %damage procs, Recharge, and if necessary Accuracy... because %procs still require a ToHit check.  The main argument against my proposal (that is, slot Contagious Confusion in the slow AoE) is the hope to increase magnitude on bosses in the spawn... but Dominators with PermaDom need not worry about that.

 

(*1) Purple drops not guaranteed.

[oedipus_tex]

Put me in the camp of folks who sees this as a "While you *can* do it, it's usually not ideal to" issue.

 

If you're determined to go this route, using base buffs and Ageless Destiny can reduce the amount of global recharge you need to hit for permadom. The base buff is +20% recharge, Ageless adds a variable amount, mentally I think of it as being around an additional +20% recharge or so, but it will vary depending on how often you hit the button. Ageless also provides endurance so is useful for that reason.

 

That said, I consider skipping Hasten an offbrand decision. Unusual builds are part of the charm of this game, so feel free to explore that route if you want. However, I also tend to feel Dominators benefit a lot from +Defense, in some ways more than other classes, because they have so little to protect them when their controls fail. Part of the reason Hasten is so popular is because it covers so much ground in a single slot, which leaves you the opportunity to use your other slots for defense and procs. Dominators who find themselves able to skip Ageless and go for Destiny Barrier are also in my experience a lot more likely to rise to the top of the pack.

[MoonSheep]

i have perma dom on my mind/fire without hasten, it has hasten too as it’s a useful power. juggling between domination and hasten isn’t the worst thing in the world though, generally in teams you’ll receive some sort of +rech buff between each cycle

 

i didn’t build for any defense etc as it doesn’t need it, went for fun procs instead