Brute's ATOs need a Revamp

[FUBARczar]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

That will be the hardest for most to accept.

why pray tell?

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

SR works differently, it's low health buff isn't a reward, it's there to save your life, cause otherwise you'd be dead!

 

What you proposed was what Blaster had, that enticed blaster to do stupid things and die even more often than they did already.

 

No, lol resistance increasing as the HP bar decreases is literally how it works for SR.

 

5 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

The ATOs are not the place to fix an AT.  And an AT shouldn't be fixed by ATOs.  

 

I don't think Brute's need a hard fix just tweaks like ATO revamps to give it a more solid identity.

 

3 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

why pray tell?

 

Go back and read any one of the hundreds of posts the last year or two on it.  That's why.

[Rudra]

53 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

If Brutes have a survivability issue this would help correct that.

I really gotta ask... who says Brutes have survivability issues?

 

Edit: For clarification? None of my brutes have any difficulty soloing +4/x8 maps unless the mobs use attacks those builds are weak to.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Rudra

[FUBARczar]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

 

No, lol resistance increasing as the HP bar decreases is literally how it works for SR.

 

 

I don't think Brute's need a hard fix just tweaks like ATO revamps to give it a more solid identity.

 

 

Go back and read any one of the hundreds of posts the last year or two on it.  That's why.

We can read, maybe you don't remember...

 

"For the other the lower your health gets the more dmg you do." - @Infinitum 

 

"That's a Baaaaaaad idea" - 🐑

[FUBARczar]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

No, lol resistance increasing as the HP bar decreases is literally how it works for SR.

 

 

I don't think Brute's need a hard fix just tweaks like ATO revamps to give it a more solid identity.

 

 

Go back and read any one of the hundreds of posts the last year or two on it.  That's why.

BTW perhaps you didn't notice but ..

 

On point one you totally missed what I was responding to or it was a deliberate bait and switch.  I was obviously talking about your comment on linking +damage to lower HP.  I thought the whole comparison to blasters and the old defiance gave it away.

 

On point two, why did you imply that I had said that Brutes need a hard fix? Because I never came close, in fact I said that 'Brutes are mostly ok' 

 

Point three, I guess your ideas aren't worth repeating.  Noted.  And I have read, especially recently, many of your posts and they all fail to explain why.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by FUBARczar

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I really gotta ask... who says Brutes have survivability issues?

 

Edit: For clarification? None of my brutes have any difficulty soloing +4/x8 maps unless the mobs use attacks those builds are weak to.

I doubt Scrappers or Stalkers will be saying that. Brutes probably have the 2nd best survival in the game behind Tankers, which they out dps. Sentinels may be fairly durable if they stay at range but they do quite a bit less damage than a Brute.

[Rudra]

I guess that would depend on the Stalker. My Martial Arts/Ninjutsu Stalker for instance was soloing BAF Lambda spawns back on Live at level 50 with no incarnate progression even started.

 

Edit: Got my iTrials mixed there. Sorry.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Rudra

[Infinitum]

9 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

 

On point two, why did you imply that I had said that Brutes need a hard fix? Because I never came close, in fact I said that 'Brutes are mostly ok' 

 

11 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

The ATOs are not the place to fix an AT.  And an AT shouldn't be fixed by ATOs.  

 

I was explaining my goal is not to fix the AT.

 

I agree with you Brute's aren't broken, but could use different ATOs.

9 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Point three, I guess your ideas aren't worth repeating.  Noted.  And I have read, especially recently, many of your posts and they all fail to explain why.

 

You obviously haven't. lol please see above.

[arcane]

I was sort of under the impression that the problem with Brute ATO’s is things like Superior Might of the Tanker’s proc being too strong. 

[Astralock]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

I was sort of under the impression that the problem with Brute ATO’s is things like Superior Might of the Tanker’s proc being too strong. 

Bingo, along with Scrapper’s Critical Strikes proc.  They honestly both could use a nerf.

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Bingo, along with Scrapper’s Critical Strikes proc.  They honestly both could use a nerf.

 

Wrong. You don't make others worse. You bring what's bad to their level.

 

Especially the scrapper ATO, but the tanker one also.  Those need to be extrapolated to the Brute ATOs so they will have awesome ATOs also.

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Bingo, along with Scrapper’s Critical Strikes proc.  They honestly both could use a nerf.

Request denied! Case dismissed.

 

[Astralock]

10 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

Wrong. You don't make others worse. You bring what's bad to their level.

 

Especially the scrapper ATO, but the tanker one also.  Those need to be extrapolated to the Brute ATOs so they will have awesome ATOs also.

Bringing things up to the level of outliers results in power creep.  The better solution is to nerf the outliers.

[Infinitum]

16 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Bringing things up to the level of outliers results in power creep.  The better solution is to nerf the outliers.

 

So that is the power creep in this game you are worried about?   Heh

[Infinitum]

23 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Bringing things up to the level of outliers results in power creep.  The better solution is to nerf the outliers.

 

I was dismissive in my last post, let me explain.

 

My view is the game has a high functional level of play at this point in time that is refocusing the balance point.  TW exceeded it and was brought down - IMO a little too much.  Scrappers Stalkers Tankers even Brute's are all balanced pretty well on this make believe line - Brute's need a little work-not much but I would start with the ATO.

 

The whole balance line at this point is based on power creep - that should not trend higher than where it is IMO - but you can't start yanking elements down unless you are going to do it for everything - and there are way more egregious outliers than the melee class ATOs.

[FUBARczar]

36 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Bringing things up to the level of outliers results in power creep.  The better solution is to nerf the outliers.

They aren't OP.  The point is Brute ATOs really make no difference or impact on the build or game play. 

 

Next  I suppose that you'll say it's a feature that it really doesn't make a difference of our where you sit the Brute ATOs.  That it gives a player build flexibility, and so on.  🤣🤣🤣

Edited September 10, 2022 by FUBARczar

[Snarky]

20 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

The ATOs are not the place to fix an AT.  And an AT shouldn't be fixed by ATOs.  

Truth.  ATOs should, in a perfect way world, be an excellent set to place in the AT though.  Especially the PROC.  When it falls flat it hurts so bad.  You sit and think of all that could have been.  Then glance jealously at the ATs who got near perfect ATO sets looking like surf and turf while you got runny peanut butter on stale bread

Edited September 11, 2022 by Snarky

[Rudra]

They gave you peanut butter?! I'm jealous....

 

 

😜

[FUBARczar]

Brute ATO farce

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Brute ATO farce

Actually not really.   I have pretty much moved onto a new game except for a few posting here each week hoping for change.  And an hour or so of SG event Friday nights.  My Brute stories have reached their end.  I will not watch it any longer

[Sovera]

The idea that ATOs should not fix the AT because they are separate things is fine on the surface, but flawed when looking at ATOs in a critical fashion.

 

I imagine at the early stages ATOs were a lot rarer and lot more expensive than they became. It is no longer a case of the lucky dog who got a good drop that either was the ATO or allowed to buy the ATO, but rather do an half hour TF and have enough to buy (I mean Yin, but I might be slightly hyperbolic since the merits sold would be closer to 6 million and change where the ATOs would be closer to 8 mill. But, case in point, anyone who cares for TFs merit rewarding content while leveling can obtain the ATO procs before level 20).

 

At this point it is no longer a point of talking about ATOs as something separate from the AT except that instead of leveling and obtaining that progression we simply buy it. In either case it is an integral part of the AT and might as well be baked in for the ease of which it is obtained, but if not desiring to bake it in for progression reasons, it still remains an easy to acquire integral part of a build and not a rare % drop off a final raid boss (trinkets and set pieces with their set bonuses in games like WoW) or super expensive (like the live CoH IO market was).

 

 

While it seems I digress a bit what I try to say in my rambling manner is that increases in damage or survival from the ATO are not for the lucky few but should be considered that they will affect the entirety of the AT playing population and at this should just be considered as part of the AT's balance instead of an extra or a bonus that it gets.

 

I like several of the ideas that have been put out. Some I do not (damage being tied to less HP no, but survival tied to HP while sounding great does affect the entire AT where SR only gets scaling resists). Having a dev chime in would be great to herd the suggestions away from places the devs will not go to keep this constructive.