Focused Feedback: Force Fields Revamp

[ChromeWeasel]

Has anyone suggested making Detention Field a simple immobilize with KB protection? Maybe an AOE. It would be useful and allow FF users to use their powers more tactically. IE : if you want to KB the targets you don't use the field. If you want to make keep group together you use the anti KB power. 

 

Or maybe a pull that shoves enemies into a tighter circle. Make FF into a key tool for moving lower ranked MOBs wherever you want. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Repulsion Bolt recharge will be going back down to 4s.

Thank you for that.

 

8 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Detention Field was touched but the change did not pass internal testing. We still plan to do something about it in the future.

I meant to mention this in my previous post. I'd like to recommend that it keep its current functionality exactly as is, but change it into an offensive toggle with a 60 second max duration.

 

This allows it to keep its current strength, but also allows the player to shut it off early instead of standing around waiting for it to expire. So not a buff, just a QoL improvement. I really think that's all Detention Field needs.

 

8 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Personal Force Field has not been touched due to it being somewhat popular, but we still brainstorming on this power while trying to retain its utility around.

I still think that essentially turning it into a really good armor tier 9, as I described in my last post, would be the best way to improve this. It makes it actually effective for game play, but removes its ability to cheese through most of the mission the way it currently can.

.

Edited October 12, 2022 by PeregrineFalcon
Spelling hard.

[Wavicle]

The set is getting there, but with Trick Arrow and Electric Affinity as my references for what the HC team considers good support sets, it's not quite all the way there.

Leaving aside PFF and Detention, and assuming the -Res numbers cannot be improved:

The set is MOSTLY there, but the T9 is where it's lacking. Adding -Damage or +Absorb or both to the Damping Field would make it a pick you are EXCITED about.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Wavicle

[Wavicle]

A T9 Support power (and T9s in general) should have immediate OBVIOUS effects that are generally useful in most situations. Right now Damping Field is still fairly niche. -Dmg/+Absorb, perhaps even just a moderate amount only at the time of casting rather than persisting for the duration, would make it immediately and noticeably useful in nearly all team and solo situations.

[Wavicle]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:38 PM, The Curator said:

Dispersion Bubble

• Dispersion buff lasts for 15s, allowing it to apply if you leave its radius or the toggle drops briefly.

I have been trying to test and I am having difficulty determining: does this effect apply to you, the caster?

For example, if I am Slept do I retain my Hold protection and Defense for 15 seconds? How about if I run out of Endurance?

 

EDIT:
 

The answer seems to be No, this only works for your allies.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Wavicle

[SeraphimKensai]

Made a Ninja/FF to test both ninja and force field. Spent some time playing around with it.

 

Dampening Field is useful, but I wish it either had it's recharge reduced to match Faraday Cage so it can be used as the team moves easier or reverted to a toggle like the old Force Bubble.

 

I still think we need something on Deflection and Insulation shields, like another 20% DDR split between the two powers.

 

Personal Force Field should still be worked to allow the player to attack, whether that means halving the +Def/Res then so be it.

 

Good work on Dispersion bubble, it helps when teammates zip in and out for a recharge.

 

Repulsion Bomb is interesting but if it's stick is going to be knockdown and -res, can we get say -30% at least Defender numbers as the resistance procs are all at 20% and it feels weird to have an IO proc stronger than the power.

 

I think Detention Field should have a new PvE effect and the current cage effect remain for PvP.  Perhaps the PvE effect would suffocate it's target for 30 seconds and have an immobilize and a building -defense/-regen effect on the target over the duration, but allow target to attack and be attacked. That way people wouldn't complain about it being used in PvE but it retains it's usefulness in PvP.

 

Good start on FF.

[Zect]

Further playtesting has proven that these changes are both overpowered and unecessary -- to a set that, contrary to what a few players believe, is already powerful, well-balanced, highly effective.

 

The prime offender is the -res on repulsion bolt/bomb. Adding the most valuable offensive debuff to a set with some of the strongest defenses completely upsets its balance. The set now applies aoe -15% res on a 30s cooldown and an extra 20% essentially permanently to single hard targets. There is essentially no more tradeoff in exchange for FF's forbidable defenses. I warn you that the other set with strong +def/-res, Cold Domination, is already the #1 support set in 4-star hard mode ITF speedruns (albeit cold leans more towards the offensive rather than defensive side of the equation).

 

I can support some of the smaller changes - adding special resist to dampening bubble, for example, to give the set something unique that doesn't completely overpower its weaknesses, but the -res is a clear mistake.

 

Remember, buffs, once handed out, are nigh-impossible to revoke, because the playerbase will cry bloody murder. Buffs to offensive power in particular are especially problematic and led to the high-dps speedkill meta now prevalent on homecoming, where many sets are actually disadvantaged due to being unable to fire off all key powers before the engagement is largely over, destroying the fun of many players and disadvantaging their playstyles. These changes should be reverted before the problem is allowed to start anew; or, if you must add them, they should be added very gradually, with an eye to making the set undertuned on release and increasing them later only if necessary (-5%/-7.5% for repulsion bomb/bolt would be more reasonable).

Edited October 13, 2022 by Zect

[Marbing]

11 hours ago, Wavicle said:

A T9 Support power (and T9s in general) should have immediate OBVIOUS effects that are generally useful in most situations. Right now Damping Field is still fairly niche. -Dmg/+Absorb, perhaps even just a moderate amount only at the time of casting rather than persisting for the duration, would make it immediately and noticeably useful in nearly all team and solo situations.

This is what I have been saying, so I 100% agree. It just needs that something extra to make it useful always.

[gameboy1234]

13 hours ago, Wavicle said:

The set is MOSTLY there, but the T9 is where it's lacking. Adding -Damage or +Absorb or both to the Damping Field would make it a pick you are EXCITED about.

 

If I'm reading the power info right, the Dampening Bubble debuffs (by -25%) foe to-hit, all movement, perception, regeneration, and -12% to defense debuff resistance.  The -To-Hit is pretty beefy and should provide some mitigation, especially when stacked with the +Def in the rest of the set.  Effectively it's already -Damage.  Those are some decent foe debuffs.  What I'm concerned about is it doesn't really feel Tier 9 ish.  Maybe that's just a perception problem but it's not a very apparent effect.  The power is useful but feels "off" for a Tier 9.  I'm not sure what my point is, I just wanted to point out that there are some debuffs already in the power.

 

 

 

 

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

If I'm reading the power info right, the Dampening Bubble debuffs (by -25%) foe to-hit, all movement, perception, regeneration, and -12% to defense debuff resistance.  The -To-Hit is pretty beefy and should provide some mitigation, especially when stacked with the +Def in the rest of the set.  Effectively it's already -Damage.  Those are some decent foe debuffs.  What I'm concerned about is it doesn't really feel Tier 9 ish.  Maybe that's just a perception problem but it's not a very apparent effect.  The power is useful but feels "off" for a Tier 9.  I'm not sure what my point is, I just wanted to point out that there are some debuffs already in the power.

 

 

 

 

As I read, that was all -SPECIAL, or may be resitance to debuffs TO those, but it's not actual debuff. So reduces their powers that GRANT those bonuses which is very few and far between for usefulness. I could be wrong would have to check again but I'm pretty sure.

Edited October 13, 2022 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

13 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I have been trying to test and I am having difficulty determining: does this effect apply to you, the caster?

For example, if I am Slept do I retain my Hold protection and Defense for 15 seconds? How about if I run out of Endurance?

 

EDIT:
 

The answer seems to be No, this only works for your allies.

Ew, yeah should work for you too.

[gameboy1234]

10 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

As I read, that was all -SPECIAL, or may be resitance to debuffs TO those, but it's not actual debuff. So reduces their powers that GRANT those bonuses which is very few and far between for usefulness. I could be wrong would have to check again but I'm pretty sure.

I remember that the power was +Res for players (to status resistances) but it said -Str for foes, which seemed like it would be the powers themselves.  But yeah reading the power info is kinda confusing, I'm not 100% sure I was reading it right either.

 

[WindDemon21]

9 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

I remember that the power was +Res for players (to status resistances) but it said -Str for foes, which seemed like it would be the powers themselves.  But yeah reading the power info is kinda confusing, I'm not 100% sure I was reading it right either.

 

Yeah no, -strength means it lowers their powers effects, not an actual debuff. And since most enemies only have minimal powers that actually boost their stuff, its quite mundane in normal play.

 

From where it is now I'd like to see:

 

Repulsion Field: -speed added to it's 25ft radius portion. I didn't check activation time, but would like it 1s or less to cast it. If kb-kd is added, maybe instead of removing the repel, change it to the pull-in like singularity has. So it's either, keep away, or come to me and knock down! But having repel completely gone if you want it's knockback to be knockdown is very bad if losing force bubble too since you can't have both powers at your command.

 

Force bolt: -regen added for AVs. KB mag changed to .67 so its inherent knockdown, but if people want knockback, they can slot it to still have it do that.

 

PFF: faster cast time, able to attack while it's on, but if you do, you lose a lot of the defense until x amount of time after not attacking kinda like how stealth crits work etc. or generally changed altogether to something else. As it stands now, even with current changes i'd still kinda want to skip both force bolt AND pff unless PFF could give an always on benefit, and force bolt, i may want, but would easily want to put off till like 49 for AVs.

 

Detention Field: changed altogether, either into a ST hold, or new power altogether LIke I mentioned a debuff location power ala hami goo esque debuffs. If remaining as a ST power, have it be a hold, with a reworking of intangible altogether. Maybe something like, one one cast, it makes them intangible, but if stacked, it removes the intangible and becomes a hold. That way you can still use it as an intangible for those RARE uses on some tfs, and if you want it as a hold, you're safe till it's stacked or wears off.

 

Repulsion bomb: radius normalized/increased. at least 15ft for all, maybe upped to 20ft for all since it's now more of a debuff than attack, bring up it's higher stun chance back, 10% is basically nothing and the stun sets aren't that great anyway, esp if its only enhancing a pitiftul 10% low mag low duration stun.

 

Disperion bubble: Add absorb tics, 20% DDR added defender value.

 

Deflection/Insulation shields: Add DDR, 25% each defender value.

 

Force bubble. Honestly returned as it was with -speed added. But with the suggestions I made for repulsion field above, having a big area location debuff works, but add actually USEFUL debuff for most mobs. -damage for sure, -speed, -resistance, -defense (just a little to help, and give better slotting/io options, as a longer rech location power, achilles heel proc won't at all factor to it) It should also be a targetted location power, not cast at your location (unless macro'd to do so) but it should be able to cast at range, ie ON the mob, esp with the way new repulsion field is currently working. If as this location power it could instead of on repulsion, get the pull in like sing to the center, that would also be ultimately awesome and make it well worth losing the big area repulsion of current force bubble.

[gameboy1234]

25 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Yeah no, -strength means it lowers their powers effects, not an actual debuff.

 

In that case, sure if we got this power at level 10 it would be pretty cool.  As a Tier 9 it feels really weak.  Adding some direct buffs and debuffs would certainly help it.

 

[Laenan]

Tested my Psy/FF Corruptor on high level content.

 

Skipped PFF and Detention field since they're unchanged. I'd really love to see if PFF couldn't be moved to later in the picking order and be a self-buff of some kind.

 

I love the -res on force bolt. Nice and spammable, does what it needs to, and the power just gets this little buff that's nice. One thought I had on this power was to actually give you two click powers, like how dual pistols ammo works. Have the powers use the same cooldown/recharge, so you can't just alternate them. One power is "as is" and the other one is a "pull" or reverse knockback attack that vectors the enemy toward you. Could be nice for positioning and gives the set an extra tool for that purpose.

 

Similarly, Force Bomb's - resist is nice in an aoe. Felt like I was doing enough more damage to make the bomb a solid opener.  The power feels like it needs just a little more in some way- a slightly better stun, a little more -resist, or a little more damage. If I could get a slightly more reliable stun, or no stun and a slightly better -resist out of the power, I think it would be even better. The stun chance is so low as is it feels like it's been left in mostly for IO set purposes if someone wanted to slot stun sets. I wouldn't mind the slightly higher damage it used to have. This power is a late pick in the set so some more oomph could be good. Cast time is much better than it was pre-changes as well. Thanks for that!

 

The force bubble/repulsion field power does what I needed it to. Now I don't play bubblers in MSRs so I can't speak to that use, but it kept stuff away without a KB->KD proc, and acted very similarly to repel and similar powers with the proc. It was not a huge endurance hog unlike Repel, so i can see use cases for both slotting the proc and not, which is a good choice to make. I liked the power solo.

 

The T9 was... disappointing? I think the recharge should be more in line with Faraday Cage for what it's doing, because it does seem like the power wants to be up as much as possible. The benefits it's giving were not very noticeable. It's also very difficult to see, mostly due to the other force fields I had up while testing. If this power is going to remain the set capstone it needs something else- an absorb mechanic, some low resistance value (for some stacked mitigation with FF's defenses), -defense to the enemies, or something. It feels very skippable as is. Maybe if the defense debuff resist in the special was doubled, it would be worth the pick for that niche. But even then, I'm not sure that's "good enough." 

 

As far as ordering powers goes, The Repulsion power feels like it's better placed at t9, and Damping Field could easily be moved to it's current spot.

 

Last thing: If this could happen in the engine: an awesome t9 would be some kind of temporary terrain creation in the form of a force wall. Big enough to block off a warehouse or cave hallway. On click, it just appears in front of you, in the direction you're facing, lasts 10 seconds, works like any terrain, blocks lines of fire and foes have to reposition around it. Very long or even fixed cooldown. It would be even cooler if your allies could blast through it and foes couldn't. Think of a short duration DND wall of force. If the mechanics of a terrain creation don't work, maybe some force field wall still pops up, but you and nearby allies get some crazy PFF levels of defense for the ten seconds its up. Not perm-able, but just some power that gives the party ten seconds of "no one is dying right now."

[BrandX]

23 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

In that case, sure if we got this power at level 10 it would be pretty cool.  As a Tier 9 it feels really weak.  Adding some direct buffs and debuffs would certainly help it.

 

 

• Summons a Pseudopet at your location that casts a 55ft radius Dampening Bubble for 45s.

• Applies +Special Resistance to yourself and allies (Defender Values):

  • 43.25% res to ToHit, Accuracy, Perception, Slow, Recharge, and Regeneration debuffs

  • 21.63% res to Defense Debuffs. This is enhanceable with Defense enhancements.

• Applies -Special to a max of 16 enemies inside the field:

  • -43.25% ToHit, Slow, Perception, Regeneration

  • -23.63% Defense

 

I feel the real part of this is the Defense Debuff Resistance that will stack with others, helping out the other Defense Set Armors, fellow Force Fielders, and giving some of those who focus on Defense set bonus, some, but not much, resistance to their defense being debuffed, all of which that 21.63% is enhanceable, for even more defense debuff resist.

 

However, that's the only set this power takes.  I'm curious as to why it's not allowing TOHIT Debuff sets and Defense Debuff sets, and possibly why no Slow Sets.

 

The -Regen isn't much, but that seems more flavor than useful.

 

Honestly, I couldn't say if this is T9 worthy or not, but on the idea of it, I like it.

[Wavicle]

42 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

• Summons a Pseudopet at your location that casts a 55ft radius Dampening Bubble for 45s.

• Applies +Special Resistance to yourself and allies (Defender Values):

  • 43.25% res to ToHit, Accuracy, Perception, Slow, Recharge, and Regeneration debuffs

  • 21.63% res to Defense Debuffs. This is enhanceable with Defense enhancements.

• Applies -Special to a max of 16 enemies inside the field:

  • -43.25% ToHit, Slow, Perception, Regeneration

  • -23.63% Defense

 

I feel the real part of this is the Defense Debuff Resistance that will stack with others, helping out the other Defense Set Armors, fellow Force Fielders, and giving some of those who focus on Defense set bonus, some, but not much, resistance to their defense being debuffed, all of which that 21.63% is enhanceable, for even more defense debuff resist.

 

However, that's the only set this power takes.  I'm curious as to why it's not allowing TOHIT Debuff sets and Defense Debuff sets, and possibly why no Slow Sets.

 

The -Regen isn't much, but that seems more flavor than useful.

 

Honestly, I couldn't say if this is T9 worthy or not, but on the idea of it, I like it.

The debuffs are not enhanceable, only the DDR.

[BrandX]

Just now, Wavicle said:

The debuffs are not enhanceable, only the DDR.

 

I get that, the question is, why not make the TOHIT Debuff enhanceable?  Why not make the Slow enhanceable?

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I get that, the question is, why not make the TOHIT Debuff enhanceable?  Why not make the Slow enhanceable?

Cause its not slow, its only lowering the speed BOOSTS of the enemies. Which again, is really, kinda poor for most things. This power needs more oomph as I've stated above.

[Wavicle]

19 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I get that, the question is, why not make the TOHIT Debuff enhanceable?  Why not make the Slow enhanceable?

 

It doesn't debuff ToHit or Speed.

It debuffs powers that grant ToHit or Speed.

 

A strange distinction, but it's there. I don't think Str buffs/debuffs can be enhanced at all, to my knowledge.

[BrandX]

5 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

It doesn't debuff ToHit or Speed.

It debuffs powers that grant ToHit or Speed.

 

A strange distinction, but it's there. I don't think Str buffs/debuffs can be enhanced at all, to my knowledge.

 

Okay, so it doesn't debuff TOHIT, it debuffs Vengeance, Tactics, Build Up.

[PoptartsNinja]

45 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Okay, so it doesn't debuff TOHIT, it debuffs Vengeance, Tactics, Build Up.

Correct, it's Debuff Resistance and an enemy Buff/Debuff Debuff, it has no impact on their actual combat performance unless they use a lot of buff/debuff in their primary attack set (like dark or swords).

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by PoptartsNinja

[Wavicle]

43 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Okay, so it doesn't debuff TOHIT, it debuffs Vengeance, Tactics, Build Up.

And Chill of the Night, Hurricane, Dark Blast, etc

[Wavicle]

I believe the Damping Field will turn out to be more useful than we are giving out credit for right now.

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I believe the Damping Field will turn out to be more useful than we are giving out credit for right now.

Knowing how those -special powers work and how many things it actually affects in useful situations though, no not really lol. Why it needs something more like I suggested above. That -special/resistance can be nice to have there sure, but it's not enough on it's own, especially not at those values. I could maybe see the absorb going there as well if not in dispersion bubble. Give it a good spot to slot some heal sets for recharge too.