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Focused Feedback: Force Fields Revamp


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2 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

Dampening Field does seem to afford protection.  It's ok.  But now, 'Am I in the bubble?  Am I out of it?'  With Force Bubble you can an in indelible sense of where things are and the combat field is nicely defined by it

 

This is actually a good point. With Faraday Cage, you get a really strong AOE effect, and there's an effect on each affected person too, a relatively bright red effect attached to their head.  You can tell pretty much at a glance who has the power effect on them.  Dampening Field has a really soft visual effect, or maybe none at all.  It could be dialed up without any problems imo.  If nothing else, the SFX from Faraday Cage could be reused and recolored (both of them), though I'd like to see a different individual effect myself.

 

(Detention Field still needs a better SFX too, or maybe just an SFX because it seems to have none at all.)

 

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3 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

Force Bubble is a pivotal and iconic Tier 9 power for Force Field.

 

I mained Force Field since Issue 3 back on live, all the way until sunset.  21 issues.  Six bubblers back on live, three on Homecoming.  The only times I ever used Force Bubble were for the blue side respec trial, to clear the Rikti from the bowl of the mothership just prior to the league arriving, and for trolling friends.  As far as I can recall from three years of playing on Homecoming mostly non-stop, I have only ever seen others use Force Bubble twice, and both times they were asked to turn it off by others.  Hardly pivotal nor iconic.

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For Repulsion Field, the description states that by slotting a KB2KD will disable the Repel. That is working as intending, but it is NOT causing any KD at all. I've stood in the middle of numerous mobs with it on (and slotted with a KB2KD), and they do not Repel, and they do NOT KD. 

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1 hour ago, Astralock said:

 

I mained Force Field since Issue 3 back on live, all the way until sunset.  21 issues.  Six bubblers back on live, three on Homecoming.  The only times I ever used Force Bubble were for the blue side respec trial, to clear the Rikti from the bowl of the mothership just prior to the league arriving, and for trolling friends.  As far as I can recall from three years of playing on Homecoming mostly non-stop, I have only ever seen others use Force Bubble twice, and both times they were asked to turn it off by others.  Hardly pivotal nor iconic.

 

Yeah, I'd say the iconic power of Force Field is Dispersion Bubble

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Definitely do not like the changes to Force Bolt and the repel field.  Tested it on beta with my FF/Rad in the RWZ, where she's been having a lot of fun helping tanks get rikti into the bowl during MSRs.  I can't rely on Force Bolt now without needing to slot it for recharge, and the -res isn't why I'd be using it.  Ability to reposition large groups is diminished.

 

I'll probably stop taking her to MSRs if this goes through.  I guess I'm glad I got to have fun with it for a few weeks, wish I'd tried it years ago.

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2 hours ago, Astralock said:

The only times I ever used Force Bubble were for the blue side respec trial, to clear the Rikti from the bowl of the mothership just prior to the league arriving, and for trolling friends. 

 

Gotta agree with this too.  Played a Bots/FF to 50 and beyond on Live, and did eventually put Force Bubble in a build once we got our 3rd build, tried it out a few times (ITF), couldn't really find a good use for it.  On a small map I might have been able to use to pin enemies in corners, but the "spread out" effect pushing all enemies away a common center made it really hard to do any sort of herding with.  I eventually gave up on that build.  The iconic powers in FF are Deflection Field, Insulation Field, and Dispersion Bubble, and fortunately those happen really early.  (And maybe Detention Field is iconic too, in a "terrible power design" sort of way.)

 

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Not that I dont appreciate the changes to repulsion field and that the tick rate for repel is better now (very nice). Force Bubble was far from useless. It wasn't meant to be an always on or scatter the mobs power (unless that situation actually gave the team an advantage, which was admittedly rare). It was meant to be a situational mob reposition power, and it was absolutely fantastic at doing just that. It created what was basically a wall that enemies couldn't pass. Using it in select situations here an there really helped herd mobs into the exact positions you wanted. Wait for mobs to enter a room, go to the door, turn on Force Bubble and everything gets pinned to the corner for the team to mop up easy peasy. I get it, a lot of people didn't understand how to use it, or found it useless. I found it incredibly useful. Regardless, the new version is still very useful, you can still pin mobs into corners and such, etc etc. Just not as far and not as strong a repel from what I have seen. In its current iteration I think hurricane is now a better version of this repel affect. That being said I do like the new repulsion field overall, the end consumption is FAR lower than before so I think it is a fair compromise given its new use as a soft control aura. But to echo what @Wavicle has said... this would be the PERFECT place for a modest -spd debuff. This way, the people that dont want the repel/knockback can slot their KB2KD and still have a decent slow field with KD which really leans into that soft control that FF can bring. 

Edited by Marbing
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I tried the new Repulsion Field briefly on Beta and I don't like it.  Mobs can push in about 15 feet in before the repel ticks.  This means that about half of the mobs briefly get in melee range.  It also means that about a half of those that reach melee range get hit by the knockback instead of the repel.  So, you end up with a mixture of repel and knockback.  The chaos of it is fun.  But you can no longer reliably repel or knockback, making it a worse positioning tool than either the old repulsion field or force bubble.

 

Also, slotting it with KB2KD is broken.  You do not get any KD at all.  I do see Force Feedback procs triggering, so something is happening.

 

As for the other powers, I didn't have problems with the slower recharge of force bolt.  After slotting, I was getting a 5s recharge, which was fine for me. 

 

I did find the graphics of Dampening field hard to see.  It has the same graphics and sound effects of force bubble.  I always had issues seeing the edges of force bubble, especially from within my dispersion bubble.  Also, the graphics for dispersion bubble and force bubble are very similar.

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I can't tell if this is a bug or not:

I hit a CoT Spectral Daemon minion with Detention Field.

 

About 30 seconds later, maybe a little under, he started moving toward me but I was still getting Unaffected when I attacked him.

Having never used the power on live I have no idea if this is the expected behavior or not but I found it surprising.

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3 hours ago, Marbing said:

Not that I dont appreciate the changes to repulsion field ...   ... this would be the PERFECT place for a modest -spd debuff. This way, the people that dont want the repel/knockback can slot their KB2KD and still have a decent slow field with KD which really leans into that soft control that FF can bring. 

 

It just occurred to me, if DETENTION FIELD had an AoE -Speed in addition to the single target cage it would kill two birds with one stone...

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This is a completely unnecessary buff. Force fields is an extremely powerful and effective set, especially in the new hard mode TF's. It's alright that force fields is not widely played; not every set must be popular.

 

Superfluous buffs contribute to the inexorable power creep that makes content unfun. There is no need to homogenize the support sets further, nor pander to the current high-dps meta, by adding -res on sets that do not need it. All of these changes should be reverted.

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4 hours ago, Zect said:

This is a completely unnecessary buff. Force fields is an extremely powerful and effective set, especially in the new hard mode TF's. It's alright that force fields is not widely played; not every set must be popular.

 

Superfluous buffs contribute to the inexorable power creep that makes content unfun. There is no need to homogenize the support sets further, nor pander to the current high-dps meta, by adding -res on sets that do not need it. All of these changes should be reverted.

 

Have to disagree.  I mean, sure love a FFer on the team, but playing it, I'm sure many would like to feel like they're doing more than Bubble Up team, Dispersion Bubble and go!  Not that some of the other powers didn't have their uses but it's not often you see them in play.

 

Becomes a little more interesting to play imo with these change.

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14 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I can't tell if this is a bug or not:

I hit a CoT Spectral Daemon minion with Detention Field.

 

About 30 seconds later, maybe a little under, he started moving toward me but I was still getting Unaffected when I attacked him.

Having never used the power on live I have no idea if this is the expected behavior or not but I found it surprising.

 

 

You can't immob CoT ghosts. 

I'm fairly sure, at least.

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23 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

(Detention Field still needs a better SFX too, or maybe just an SFX because it seems to have none at all.)

 

I'm going to double down on this.  The SFX seems to be back, but even if I go to the Tailor and color it as garishly as possible, the SFX is still too light and easy to miss.  It's a pain because it doesn't stand out in a sea of rather strong SFX from other powers, and it doesn't communicate to a team what is going on.  It barely communicates to me that my power has landed, and I was watching for it.  I think it needs: 1. new polygons for the hold effect, the transparent bubble isn't cutting it.  I'd like something nearly solid to demark the Detention Field effect.  2. New animation, the target just does an idle pose, which is easy to miss again.  A more definite animation like the waist struggle one or something that has a sharp and quickly repeating animation would also help people notice that the Detention Field is active.  If there's a "let me out" animation (like beating on a door or pushing against a barrier) that might work as well.

 

 

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Can we just make detention field a standard single target hold? Effectively it’s already that except it’s annoying in teams. Making it a “standard” hold would let it slot hold sets, allow the held target to be attacked, and just otherwise be a better version that basically does the same thing. Maybe let it have a chance for a mag 4 hold if detaining bosses is something people use it for. As is, I don’t use the power nor do I find it useful in any form, except as a “troll the team” gimmick, which I won’t do.

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Detention Field is 'not the only' power that will 'get lost' in a rolling-all-conquering team of 8.

 

It's for a different kind of game play.  Not all CoH play is 'meal time at the Simpsons.'

 

It's a subtle power, with a subtle appearance and used in incisive circumstances.  That's fine.  I quite enjoy the use of it to isolate bosses when I need to take out the trash 1st.

 

When my Duo-partner and I were DUO-ing a FF/En Defender, we'd give the Detention Field an Orange/Red colour ie.  Warning.  Dangerous Boss isolated appearance leaving the cyan soap liquid powers alone for the rest of the set.  It's a pretty low-key non-showy set graphics wise.  

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
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On 10/8/2022 at 3:08 PM, Astralock said:

 

I mained Force Field since Issue 3 back on live, all the way until sunset. 

 

...but didn't master Force Bubble?

 

I've used it extensively on live and on HC to control mobs, tank, keep them at bay, pin them to certain locations, used it on teams upon occasion in targeted use.

 

...and yes.  Occasionally use it to ruffle Controller's feathers after they 'lamposted' the taunt/aggro. 🙂

 

Azrael.

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9 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Have to disagree.  I mean, sure love a FFer on the team, but playing it, I'm sure many would like to feel like they're doing more than Bubble Up team, Dispersion Bubble and go!  Not that some of the other powers didn't have their uses but it's not often you see them in play.

 

Becomes a little more interesting to play imo with these change.

 

I have to disagree about your disagree.

 

Alot of the changes are shoe horned debuffs.  Ironic that most of the fixes are fixing things that just didn't need fixing.  Except 'Force Bomb.'  (Which simply is nothing of the kind.)

 

Maybe many expect bubble bot and Dispersion.  But they're very subtle powers and don't put anybody's noses out of joint.  Force Bubble and Detention Field will if used clumsily.  They can be situational and tricky to master solo or in teams.  eg. Detention Field.  I've seen people apply a macro to its use to warn players that button mashing on this 'mob' is pretty futile right now because they're in a detention field where they can't harm anyone.

 

The force bolt has an unnecessary name change.  It's longer recharge time.  It used to be fun, cheap and fast.  Now.  It's not.

The Force Bubble has been kludged with Replusion.  Very 'clumsy.'  Pfft.  Backward step.

The 'static' play Dampening Field.  'Sounds nice' but has all the authority of being 'left behind' as teams rush onto the next 8 hero mob stomp.  The Dampening Field will be 'left back there' looking somewhat subtle.

 

That said.  I'm not entirely against the idea of a dampening field as another type of Force Field.  I'd quite happily merge deflection/insulation shield into one nice shield buff.  ANd bring in Dampening Field as an extra power choice/string to Force Field's bow.  I don't hate the idea of it.  I just don't like the idea of it replacing the authorative hard edged playing combat/device of Force Bubble.  

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
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On 10/8/2022 at 1:59 PM, BillyMailman said:

Unrelated to everything else, I haven't gotten on Beta yet (and this beta is apparently moving damn fast, patch 3 already!), but have one objection that in no way requires testing things:
 

The new power should probably be named Damping Bubble, not Dampening Bubble. The language is definitely muddled around the two terms enough that you certainly can call it dampening, but damping is considered slightly more correct. But more importantly, it leaves open the option of a future Water Control power, or maybe a Watery Armour aura power, called Dampening Bubble. And that gag just seems too good to pass up, to me.

 

Or named 'Damp Squib.'

 

Cheap shot, Azrael.

 

For the record I was excited about the idea that F.Field would get a design pass.

 

This suite of changes isn't what I was expecting.

 

The end cost tweak to Repulsion to something sane?  I get.  That's fine.  'Love Bomb' (cause it aint a Force Bomb...) getting a faster activation is 'fine.'  I just think this power is a mis-noma.  There's a chance here to really give 'the real villain of Force Field' a real makeover other than a timing tweak.

 

Deflection and Insulation aren't going to 'Offend' anyone.  They a subtle def' dollop to allow teams to 'roll.'  I'd consolidate them into one power.  And (controversially?) allow the Defender to self buff with them.

 

This would allow you to choose the 'new power' dampening field as another insulating layer (with debuffs) against high end mobs.  I'd also rather have this field as a toggle you can run that 'walks with you' just as Dispersion Bubble and Force Bubble do.

 

Dispersion 'Bubble' is somewhat iconic.  Most of the set is.  But I always thought Dispersion was a rather weak buff/field.  I'd rather most of the debuffs go to it to make it the power is always should have been.  Soloing as a defender, I thought its protection was somewhat flimsy.

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
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30 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

I have to disagree about your disagree.

 

Alot of the changes are shoe horned debuffs.  Ironic that most of the fixes are fixing things that just didn't need fixing.  Except 'Force Bomb.'  (Which simply is nothing of the kind.)

 

Maybe many expect bubble bot and Dispersion.  But they're very subtle powers and don't put anybody's noses out of joint.  Force Bubble and Detention Field will if used clumsily.  They can be situational and tricky to master solo or in teams.  eg. Detention Field.  I've seen people apply a macro to its use to warn players that button mashing on this 'mob' is pretty futile right now because they're in a detention field where they can't harm anyone.

 

The force bolt has an unnecessary name change.  It's longer recharge time.  It used to be fun, cheap and fast.  Now.  It's not.

The Force Bubble has been kludged with Replusion.  Very 'clumsy.'  Pfft.  Backward step.

The 'static' play Dampening Field.  'Sounds nice' but has all the authority of being 'left behind' as teams rush onto the next 8 hero mob stomp.  The Dampening Field will be 'left back there' looking somewhat subtle.

 

That said.  I'm not entirely against the idea of a dampening field as another type of Force Field.  I'd quite happily merge deflection/insulation shield into one nice shield buff.  ANd bring in Dampening Field as an extra power choice/string to Force Field's bow.  I don't hate the idea of it.  I just don't like the idea of it replacing the authorative hard edged playing combat/device of Force Bubble.  

 

Azrael.

 

Seen it too with Detention Field, and honestly, it never felt needed.  I'd say 99% of the time it felt like a waste of time to put them in it.  I don't recall a good time, but I'll give it that 1%

 

Can't speak of the name change.  I mean, I don't know why they did it, but if they left the set the same and just did a name change, it's not like I'd go "You ruined the set"

 

Static Damening Field, you mean, what is basically Force Field's version of Tar Patch now?  Yup.  Tar Patch is left behind.

 

As for the two powers that basically got merged, again, hardly saw players use it in normal team play.  Maybe if it was an all ranged team and the others hugged the Bubbler 😛

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Been playing this a lot over the past few days.

FF is now one of the strongest SOLOING Defenders there is, and will be MUCH better on teams thanks to the debuffs and shifting of powers.

 

Finally I can help my team do more damage, formerly FF was the ONLY support set that had nothing for this. It's not a LOT, but I don't need a lot with my Defense and Mez Protection.

 

I've lost rapid fire Force Bolt, but since Repulsion Field is now inexpensive to run whenever I want I can still keep enemies back constantly.

 

I've lost the giant Force Bubble, that was rarely useful except for aggroing many groups at once, but now I can reinforce my teams shields against debuffs that were getting through.

 

PFF is ok but not super important and Detention Field still needs a look, but at least I now only have 2 powers I almost never use instead of 6.

 

I now have multiple powers that I use on Every spawn. Recharge now benefits me a little, but isn't SO important that I must stack lots of it. Endurance costs are down.

Very happy with these changes. I can understand why people who liked the set as it was could be disappointed, but for those of us who AVOIDED the set as it was this is a big improvement. I will play this set now.

Edited by Wavicle
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I was playing a Necro/FF on Redside. I liked how Repulsion Field felt. I had a couple of "oh no" moments, popped Repulsion Field, and watched my minions do their thing.

 

The same thing happened with Dampening Bubble. I was trying to figure out if I had any suggestions for it, when I was suddenly surrounded. Popped Dampening Bubble, minions did clean up, before I could even thing of turning Repulsion Field on.

 

I can see how I could invest more recharge into it, though it still won't become an "every pack" kind of thing. I'm ok with that.

 

I am curious how it will perform on some of the other FF characters I have. With Necro MM, I didn't have a need for Force Bolt or Force Bomb.

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On 10/8/2022 at 6:06 AM, Wavicle said:

With the faster tick rate from today's patch Repulsion Field is much more reliable.

 

However, I still believe a small -Speed debuff attached to it would help even further, either that or increase the radius on the Knockback portion. Enemies are still able to get to melee more frequently than desirable.

What would feel intuitive is if the radius matched Dispersion Bubble.

Personally I don't like the idea of it having a wider area, because then you have to be more careful where it's hitting as opposed to it being a safe backup. A dispersion radius slow makes sense, and then maybe even increase it's proc rate.

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