WindDemon21 Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 8:55 AM, InvaderStych said: This is overkill. It should have standard dmg aura stats in terms of size and target cap. Relative damage to other auras should be commensurate with existing standards. Auras that lack a debuff do slightly more damage, ones that do do slightly less. Unless I am mistaken the standard number of targets affected should be 10. It also needs to be noted, that each IG patch does HALF of a standard aoe toggle's damage. So it's really a quadruple nerf. Cause IG's damage, only equaled a standard aoe toggle's damage when you would get 2 patches of it going at the same time by standing in place for 10 seconds. It also loses damage buffs as it sits there, most notably, that of fury. This whole thing is just ridiculously dumb that they're even nerfing the power. It's nice procced, but pretty much WAY crappier than a standard damage aura without them in about every regard. If they don't revert this nerf, I'm just straight up going to request they just make it a standard damage aura.
City Council Booper Posted October 12, 2022 City Council Posted October 12, 2022 13 hours ago, ExeErdna said: On paper it's "powerful" yet because it couldn't take ATO's it was a bit more balanced That will be changing.
Yomo Kimyata Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 47 minutes ago, Booper said: That will be changing. Why isn't that in the notes then? 1 Who run Bartertown?
City Council Booper Posted October 12, 2022 City Council Posted October 12, 2022 Just now, Yomo Kimyata said: Why isn't that in the notes then? It's not patched yet. 2 1
Ratch_ Posted October 12, 2022 Author Posted October 12, 2022 All/Radiation Melee/Irradiated Ground: This power can now only proc once every 10 seconds. Can now accept ATOs Posting as an FYI/Update 😁
InvaderStych Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) On the subject of updates: From Brainstorm, latest patch. Target cap reset to 10. If someone else could double check this, that would be great. I was seeing weird hit rolls where only 1 roll was made, then the next block >5 rolls made. Probably just mobs moving around. EDIT: Ignore previous comment about ATOs. I forgot that the toon already had one of them slotted elsewhere. Duh! 🤣 Edited October 13, 2022 by InvaderStych whoopsie! You see a mousetrap? I see free cheese and a f$%^ing challenge.
City Council Booper Posted October 13, 2022 City Council Posted October 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, InvaderStych said: Target cap reset to 10. This is correct 1 2
InvaderStych Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 Quick side note: +Res Tanker ATO is crazy good in IG, even at 1 check every 10 secs it was consistently stacked in my short test with big mobs in Eden. You see a mousetrap? I see free cheese and a f$%^ing challenge.
Someguy12 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/7/2022 at 5:39 PM, Dracomicon said: As a casual player, I did some testing with my Rad / Bio brute (build at the end) and these are my results: Results: On LIVE (all at +3/x8 no Lore): - Ran the Briggs #133 S/L Farm and completed the first mission in 6min - Defeated a Pylon in 4 min 7sec - Ran the first two missions of Ouro Tsoo Coup with no problems at lvl 24 On BETA (all at +3/x8 no Lore): - Ran the Briggs #133 S/L Farm and completed the first mission in 7min 25sec an increase of 24% in time - Defeated a Pylon in 6 min 33sec an increase of 59% in time This is the post that concerned me and got me on Brainstorm to test this. RM/ENA/MU Scrapper I'm not getting wild ST variations with my times. My worst run was an 8% difference from my average on live. My best run was 0.9% difference. Admittedly I haven't timed normal mission stuff but I haven't had anything pop out to me. I'm personally not seeing the gloom and doom regarding it so far so I suppose back to running more tests to see.
Major_Decoy Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Someguy12 said: I'm personally not seeing the gloom and doom regarding it so far so I suppose back to running more tests to see. A lot of the gloom and doom is because of previous changes that have been reverted. 1 1
Someguy12 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said: A lot of the gloom and doom is because of previous changes that have been reverted. Oh. Explains that one then. lol
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Booper said: This is correct Ok so as it stands now it's back to 10 targets, but still only procs a patch every 10 seconds instead of every 5? Do the patches now last 20 seconds (bad in lots of play versus other suggestions below) or was the damage doubled? Because again, the damage is already half of any other damage aura on one patch alone. Which is already absurd cause even with 2 it should do MORE damage than an aura since it's a melee sets damage toggle. Personally, its already an annoying issue that you have to wait for 5 seconds just to equal the damage of other toggle auras by double stacking the patches, let alone the annoyance of it when you move around in a mob and lose it. At this point again, unless it becomes advantageous to have it as patches like it is on live, please just change it to work like any other standard damage toggle (which should again be I think 25% more damage since in a melee set, or maybe same damage as other auras, but guarantee contamination on all targets hit which btw, this change also means it'll contaminate less often without these other fixes I'm mentioning) As a patch power too, don't forget it means it'll miss lots of buffs like build up when used unless you always somehow time build up RIGHT before a patch is layed down. Another detriment to it being a patch power without the advantages it currently has on live.
Ratch_ Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 The patches have not changed in the slightest. How the power used to work is how the power still works... It's only the proc interaction that has changed. And can now be slotted with ATOs.
SomeGuy Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Ratch_ said: The patches have not changed in the slightest. How the power used to work is how the power still works... It's only the proc interaction that has changed. And can now be slotted with ATOs. If this is the case for it's current state on Brainstorm and what I just tested, I'm just going to change some slotting around. I'll go from four procs to one in it. I did have the Arma Fire, Erad Energy, Achille's -RES, and Fury -RES. The Achille's was to maximize uptime chances for it since I have it slotted in all the other attacks, but looks like I'm rolling back to just the Fury -RES if this is the case. 1 Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0
Dracomicon Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 Just tested with the new changes: On BETA (all at +3/x8 no Lore): - Ran the Briggs #133 S/L Farm and completed the first mission in 6min 21sec an increase of 6% in time from live - Defeated a Pylon in 5 min 26sec an increase of 32% in time from live - Ran the first two missions of Ouro Tsoo Coup at lvl 24 and finished about 50% longer than live Opinion: As I have been re-running the same content, I have gotten better at completing it. So some of the increase in times is my own learning experience as I have learned to time my build-up and have a better attack chain. Having the 10 max targets helps keep more hit with contamination, and plays better as I work the mob groups. 2 1
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 13 hours ago, Ratch_ said: The patches have not changed in the slightest. How the power used to work is how the power still works... It's only the proc interaction that has changed. And can now be slotted with ATOs. So it still lays a patch down every 5s? Details on the change list its only doing that every 10s per proc. Since it lays patches I don't how it can differentiate not proccing when a patch is laid down (ie procs only fire every other patch?) unless a patch is ONLY layed down every 10s. If that's the case where it's only every 10s, then it's only doing half the damage of any other standard damage aura, and is an even more pain to use cause it'll never patch where/when you want it to.
City Council Number Six Posted October 13, 2022 City Council Posted October 13, 2022 It creates a new patch every 5 seconds. That wasn't changed. Only the interaction with procs was changed so that it can only proc once every 10 seconds, and not every time a patch is dropped.
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Number Six said: It creates a new patch every 5 seconds. That wasn't changed. Only the interaction with procs was changed so that it can only proc once every 10 seconds, and not every time a patch is dropped. OK, so it can proc, mid patch? does that mean it'l proc on both patches? lets say at the 7s mark for example. edit: I can't begin to understand how it could proc mid patch? maybe a lasting "buff" that occurs every 10s so it gets carried over to the patches? Edited October 13, 2022 by WindDemon21
Ratch_ Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said: OK, so it can proc, mid patch? does that mean it'l proc on both patches? lets say at the 7s mark for example. edit: I can't begin to understand how it could proc mid patch? maybe a lasting "buff" that occurs every 10s so it gets carried over to the patches? When you toggle on the power, the moment that first patch drops, procs will be rolled. And then they will roll again every 10s onward
Ratch_ Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Number Six said: It creates a new patch every 5 seconds. That wasn't changed. Only the interaction with procs was changed so that it can only proc once every 10 seconds, and not every time a patch is dropped. Out of curiosity, is the way it works now is that the group that drops/creates the entity is now responsible for rolling the procs? Edited October 13, 2022 by Ratch_
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ratch_ said: When you toggle on the power, the moment that first patch drops, procs will be rolled. And then they will roll again every 10s onward Ok so again then, every other patch that's created it procs. Number Six did just say "not every time a patch is dropped". So then, it will proc every OTHER patch that is dropped, but again, only when that patch is dropped, not mid-patch. Also regarding other issue that I mentioned above right before Number Six's response. As it lays patches, instead of staying on you, this still leaves lots of influx where, there are times where the patch is not on the mobs as you move around, and certainly, that it's only at half damage with just one patch instead and you have to stand there for 5 seconds just to get it to EQUAL a standard damage aura. This also means as mentioned earlier, that buffs like build up do not get it's full extent on the patches based on when the patches proc. With this procability function being reduced, the power still seems to lack oomph compared to other damage toggles. So could we please get a compensation for, especially it being a melee damage toggle that should be better than an armor one, via either each patch doing 75% instead of 50% of a standard damage toggle, so you get benefit when sitting in one place for longer, versus much less when you move around, and/or at least guaranteeing it puts contamination on the targets.
Ratch_ Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said: Ok so again then, every other patch that's created it procs. Number Six did just say "not every time a patch is dropped". So then, it will proc every OTHER patch that is dropped, but again, only when that patch is dropped, not mid-patch. Also regarding other issue that I mentioned above right before Number Six's response. As it lays patches, instead of staying on you, this still leaves lots of influx where, there are times where the patch is not on the mobs as you move around, and certainly, that it's only at half damage with just one patch instead and you have to stand there for 5 seconds just to get it to EQUAL a standard damage aura. This also means as mentioned earlier, that buffs like build up do not get it's full extent on the patches based on when the patches proc. With this procability function being reduced, the power still seems to lack oomph compared to other damage toggles. So could we please get a compensation for, especially it being a melee damage toggle that should be better than an armor one, via either each patch doing 75% instead of 50% of a standard damage toggle, so you get benefit when sitting in one place for longer, versus much less when you move around, and/or at least guaranteeing it puts contamination on the targets. I do share a bit of this opinion in some regards but @Bopperpointed out to me that IG for tankers has the older damage scale so the picture I painted earlier, while not entirely incorrect, isn't quite right. If you compare it on other ATs like a scrapper (which can crit) or a brute, then under those circumstances where two patches are down and ticking on targets, then it equals to Blazing Aura which is very good. I do definitely think the mechanics of patch laying and stacking still has implications on the overall strength of the power, and it being a pet comes with it's own drawbacks as well....overall though the power is very strong and anything that the set needs at this point is beyond IG's reach.
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said: With this procability function being reduced, the power still seems to lack oomph compared to other damage toggles. So could we please get a compensation for, especially it being a melee damage toggle that should be better than an armor one, via either each patch doing 75% instead of 50% of a standard damage toggle, so you get benefit when sitting in one place for longer, versus much less when you move around, and/or at least guaranteeing it puts contamination on the targets. For example, lets say you jump in a mob, and it procced a patch ,mid-jump. That means, there is NO damage, for 5 seconds, and then only HALF damage for 5 more seconds. This means for those ten seconds, you're literally only getting 25% of a standard damage toggle's damage. If you pop build up as you jump in the mob, this means that you're doing even LESS than 25% damage versus a standard damage toggle. Losing that extra proc function, takes out a whole long of it's damage/utility. This is why it needs something extra to benefit the power more, versus instead just changing it to be an actual damage toggle.
WindDemon21 Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ratch_ said: I do share a bit of this opinion in some regards but @Bopperpointed out to me that IG for tankers has the older damage scale so the picture I painted earlier, while not entirely incorrect, isn't quite right. If you compare it on other ATs like a scrapper (which can crit) or a brute, then under those circumstances where two patches are down and ticking on targets, then it equals to Blazing Aura which is very good. I do definitely think the mechanics of patch laying and stacking still has implications on the overall strength of the power, and it being a pet comes with it's own drawbacks as well....overall though the power is very strong and anything that the set needs at this point is beyond IG's reach. Except, in most normal play, this never actually factors into it's whole use. And As I just showed again, in most instances ALWAYS means it's less damage until after 5 seconds minimum. Very good, actually means very bad without those extra proc bonuses. Also note, that as a pet as well, this means that it will not get the tanker radius increase either, that other damage toggles get, so yet another drawback of the power. It also means, it's not going to crit on scrappers, which is a HUGE drawback on them, and means on brutes, that the damage it does will decrease over time too as the fury on the patch wears off. The power, in general in almost all play, is bad. Without giving it other advantages of doing more damage when staying there for a long duratoin by giving it 50% more damage than it does now (ie 75% damge per patch versus 50% per patch of a standard toggle), then the power is honestly still pretty crappy compared to just being a regular damage toggle. I'd easily say increase it's damage by 50%, for it to even start being as valuable as a standard damage toggle. Edited October 13, 2022 by WindDemon21
Ratch_ Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said: Except, in most normal play, this never actually factors into it's whole use. And As I just showed again, in most instances ALWAYS means it's less damage until after 5 seconds minimum. Very good, actually means very bad without those extra proc bonuses. Also note, that as a pet as well, this means that it will not get the tanker radius increase either, that other damage toggles get, so yet another drawback of the power. It also means, it's not going to crit on scrappers, which is a HUGE drawback on them, and means on brutes, that the damage it does will decrease over time too as the fury on the patch wears off. The power, in general in almost all play, is bad. Without giving it other advantages of doing more damage when staying there for a long duratoin by giving it 50% more damage than it does now (ie 75% damge per patch versus 50% per patch of a standard toggle), then the power is honestly still pretty crappy compared to just being a regular damage toggle. The instances where only 1 patch is down and ticking is my stance on why this power is fine as is. It does not get tanker radius buffs, a drawback of being a pet as well as it being dmg cap limited to I believe 400% (only really harming brutes), but this does actually crit on scrappers. I heavily disagree that this power is bad by any stretch. I like the flavor and think it does it's job very well in the set. The idea of it doing less compared to other auras in certain situations and doing more in other situations is something I welcome personally.
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