Rename/Rework Dual Blades: Dual Wield

[Wravis]

I've always wondered why Dual Blades doesn't have baton options to select from. There are plenty of characters in various comics and media that fight with two sticks rather than two swords, like Daredevil and Nightwing. It's a comic book staple, and it really makes no sense that we can't do it in CoH. Especially with the addition of police batons that war mace received.

A few people have claimed the reason batons aren't a dual blade option is that they are not blades. Which, well, duh. But that's a stupid reason. You swing batons the same way you swing swords. It's the same (or very similar) fighting style, just with less lacerations and maiming.

But if that's really the reason, I propose a change! Make it Dual Wield. This adds even more options than just batons. You can add axes too! It unlocks so much customization potential!

There are so many positives and very few negatives that I can think of.

Pros:

• Adds a significant amount of customization by including maces and axes to the powerset.
• More combinations of weapons to show off the new sheathe feature.
• Less grievous injuries by removing the requirement to have blades. Whacking guys with batons is more heroic than cutting them.
• With axes and maces both added, you can make a very efficient butcher. Butcher knife in one hand, meat tenderizer in the other. Cut down on time and labor!
• With maces as an option, you can make a very efficient handyman. Crow bar in one handy, wrench in the other.
   

Cons:

• Decision Paralysis. More options means more choice which means harder decisions.
• Change is scary.

 

An example of the changes could look something like the following:

Dual Blades Revamp

• Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, and Tanker powersets name "Dual Blades" has been changed to "Dual Wield".
• War Mace and Battle Axe weapon options are now available for this powerset.

 

Changes to Dual Blades, now Dual Wield (all Archetypes):

 

• Nimble Strike
  • "Nimble Slash" has been renamed to "Nimble Strike"
• Power Strike
  • "Power Slice" has been renamed to "Power Strike"
• Typhoon Sweep (Brute, Tanker, Scrapper)
  • "Typhoon's Edge" has been renamed to "Typhoon Sweep".
• Assassin's Strike (Stalker)
  • "Assassin's Blades" has been renamed to "Assassin's Strike".
• Vengeful Strike
  • "Vengeful Slice" has been renamed to "Vengeful Strike".
• Flurry
  • "One Thousand Cuts" has been renamed to "Flurry".

 

 

 

[Yaliw]

Change is bad. Cottage rule. Time wasted on this and not something I want. I hate axes. Dual blades would now be OP. Dual-wielsing makes with Energy Aurs would be double strong and pretty and that would fry the server.. /s

 

I like this idea 🙂

[Rudra]

I could have sworn Dual Blades had tonfa at the very least, but I went and checked on a Scrapper and didn't see them. So sure, add jo (fighting sticks) and tonfa.

 

Edit: Though a new set that used the rapid multi-hit strikes of tonfa/fighting sticks as used in the comics instead could also be very interesting.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Rudra

[El D]

I like this idea, though it might be easier to implement Dual Wielding as a separate powerset that's basically a copy of Dual Blades except with bludgeoning weapons & Smashing damage. That'd keep it in-line with prior sets like War Mace being separate from Battle Axe/Broadsword by dint of damage type and weapon theme while still being the exact same set as far as progression/animation goes. Plus, it'd allow room for some tweaks to make the two Dual sets unique from each other (like giving Dual Blades some -Def like Katana/Ninja Blade have while Dual Wield gets Disorient a la War Mace, or something along those lines).

 

It is a bit kludge-y but it does follow the exact same set up that the original weapon sets do - which is 'outside of Katana, all of these are essentially carbon copies of each other because we separated out their damage types.'

Edited October 14, 2022 by El D

[Wravis]

2 hours ago, El D said:

I like this idea, though it might be easier to implement Dual Wielding as a separate powerset that's basically a copy of Dual Blades except with bludgeoning weapons & Smashing damage. That'd keep it in-line with prior sets like War Mace being separate from Battle Axe/Broadsword by dint of damage type and weapon theme while still being the exact same set as far as progression/animation goes. Plus, it'd allow room for some tweaks to make the two Dual sets unique from each other (like giving Dual Blades some -Def like Katana/Ninja Blade have while Dual Wield gets Disorient a la War Mace, or something along those lines).

 

It is a bit kludge-y but it does follow the exact same set up that the original weapon sets do - which is 'outside of Katana, all of these are essentially carbon copies of each other because we separated out their damage types.'

I think making two separate but nearly identical sets is a waste, really. There's a reason they didn't make Titan Sword, Titan Mace, and Titan Axe. Or Glaive, Poleaxe, and Staff. Instead of risking making one set better than the others, which causes the lesser sets to be ignored, you make one set that encompasses all the options, so it's the best one. Since it's the only one.

You never see Battle Axe. You see lots of War Mace because it's the best of the sets, and Broad Sword because swords are just the coolest weapon.

[Ruin Mage]

Sure, this sounds like a cool idea.

[biostem]

More weapon options - all for it.  Reworking the entire set - I don't think it's needed.

[MistressOhm]

The only quibble I'd have with this change, is work in some kind of mechanic where one could key the typed damage (lethal vs smash) to the selected weaponry.  For added complexity (I can hear game coders groaning from here!) allow for both if a DW character has a blunt weapon in one hand but a bladed weapon in the other, but only every other attack as the 'handedness' gets switched, or half each on attacks that involve both hands/weapons.

 

In FAACT, if this particular costume = damage type tweak worked out properly, one could then introduce bokken (bamboo practice swords) to the Katana set, or razor wire gloves to the MA set.  Melee'ers could tune their powers to go after weaknesses or sidestep resistances of mobs they would be facing, simply by switching their costume up to equip the new items.

[El D]

1 hour ago, Wravis said:

I think making two separate but nearly identical sets is a waste, really. There's a reason they didn't make Titan Sword, Titan Mace, and Titan Axe. Or Glaive, Poleaxe, and Staff. Instead of risking making one set better than the others, which causes the lesser sets to be ignored, you make one set that encompasses all the options, so it's the best one. Since it's the only one.

You never see Battle Axe. You see lots of War Mace because it's the best of the sets, and Broad Sword because swords are just the coolest weapon.

 

Fair point! That was a design arrangement that CoH did grow out of as things progressed and is something that Homecoming actively works against, given the proliferation of weapon models to any set where they'd be fitting. It would definitely be the most direct route to just put the bludgeoning models on the Dual Blades set and rename it, though that still has the quibble of them dealing Lethal damage when they ought to be dealing Smashing...

 

Frankly, it'd solve a lot of issues if those two damage types just got rolled into one, especially since in most instances they use the exact same numbers as is anyway. 'Physical Damage' could cover everything non-elemental/toxic/psychic - fists, swords, bullets, knives, super strength, martial arts - and the particular delivery method used gets emphasized in the unique animations and secondary effects (some do disorient, some do knockdown, some do -Defense, some can swap ammo, etc.). If a specific enemy has a particular weakness to a certain type of weapon, have it keyed to the specific set rather than the damage type. Using Devouring Earth as an example, Broadsword deals more damage to Bladegrass while War Mace deals more damage to Quarries. That way the specific weapon chosen actually makes more of a difference.

Edited October 14, 2022 by El D

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Wravis said:

You never see Battle Axe. You see lots of War Mace because it's the best of the sets

Is it because war mace is smashing & stuns, whereas axe is lethal & knockups?  I mean, the animations seems almost 1-for-1, otherwise, (not counting the upcoming changes).

[Wravis]

6 hours ago, biostem said:

Is it because war mace is smashing & stuns, whereas axe is lethal & knockups?  I mean, the animations seems almost 1-for-1, otherwise, (not counting the upcoming changes).

Yeah. Too much unplanned pregnancy with all that knockup.

[Six-Six]

could I also slip in the request to add a knife blade down holding option?

[InvaderStych]

Floki approves more weapon models for Dual Blades Wield.

 

[Wravis]

The possibilities are endless!

[Blood Speaker]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:28 AM, Wravis said:

But if that's really the reason, I propose a change! Make it Dual Wield. This adds even more options than just batons. You can add axes too! It unlocks so much customization potential!

 

We can already have dual Battle Axes, and it already baffles me as to why there aren't any others.