Allow VEAT widows and soldiers to use each others costumes

[KaizenSoze]

It would be nice when the VEAT review happens to allow Widows to use Soldier epic costume pieces and vice vera.

 

It would allow for more interesting costume ideas. Like widows that washed out of widow training, then took up Huntswomen skills. I was able to achieve some of this via Halloween customers, which expire after two weeks.

 

 

[Rudra]

I'm not a fan of this idea. It goes against how Arachnos operates. Since the VEATs are just Arachnos troops as PCs, I'm not a fan of the idea of seeing a Crab Spider start blasting me as a Fortunata.

[Stealthrider]

If any effort is put into improving VEAT costumes, I'd rather it be spent finding a way to add a second VEAT costume slot.

[Rudra]

Not sure why you are confused, @KaizenSoze. As a VEAT, you are playing a Soldier of Arachnos or a Widow of Arachnos, even if you turn your back on Arachnos or even go hero. If your character washed out of widow training, they aren't going to give you widow gear. If you washed out of widow training (and survived) and then started over in the Soldier program, you are a Soldier of Arachnos. They give you the SoA weapons and armor. If you then progress to Bane Spider or Crab Spider, you are a Bane Spider or a Crab Spider. If you made it far enough in the widow program to get the psionics or Night Widow gear, you didn't wash out and you are a Fortunata, Night Widow, or Blood Widow. That's the way Arachnos works.

 

Now, if you want to open up the SoAs and WoAs to the APPs instead of being locked to patron powers? Sure. If you want to come up with some sort of psychic power pool to branch them and other characters out? Let's see it. However, your proposal currently works against the idea of the VEATs. (As far as I know, the typical Arachnos program wash out washes out by death.)

 

Edit: If you want a new EAT, then let's talk new EAT.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Rudra

[SeraphimKensai]

From a technical perspective the way the code works regarding VEATs and their specialized costume slot it would be difficult to replicate as if memory serves correct the player costume slot 1 for VEAT is set to go to a hidden player model that uses the extra costume pieces that the OG Devs had to implement to get it to work, as there were no female SoA and no male Widows, they had to make custom models of each and also the hide body type for both to be able to get a lot 1 to work.

 

It's not impossible to combine the two, but unless someone else has a better idea might require a hybrid hidden model for the hybrid character which likely would be counter to the costume flexibility you're after.

[KaizenSoze]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

Not sure why you are confused, @KaizenSoze. As a VEAT, you are playing a Soldier of Arachnos or a Widow of Arachnos, even if you turn your back on Arachnos or even go hero. If your character washed out of widow training, they aren't going to give you widow gear. If you washed out of widow training (and survived) and then started over in the Soldier program, you are a Soldier of Arachnos. They give you the SoA weapons and armor. If you then progress to Bane Spider or Crab Spider, you are a Bane Spider or a Crab Spider. If you made it far enough in the widow program to get the psionics or Night Widow gear, you didn't wash out and you are a Fortunata, Night Widow, or Blood Widow. That's the way Arachnos works.

 

Now, if you want to open up the SoAs and WoAs to the APPs instead of being locked to patron powers? Sure. If you want to come up with some sort of psychic power pool to branch them and other characters out? Let's see it. However, your proposal currently works against the idea of the VEATs. (As far as I know, the typical Arachnos program wash out washes out by death.)

 

Edit: If you want a new EAT, then let's talk new EAT.

I don't want a new eat. I want more options for toon backstories.

 

Widow gets injured and cannot use psychic abilities and claws. So, they retrain as a SOA.

[Rudra]

Then you make an SoA. (S)he won't be wearing the widow costume because (s)he is a SoA, but your backstory works just fine.

 

Edit: The character backstory is their bio, which is entirely open to the player to create however they want up to the character limit.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Rudra

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I don't want a new eat. I want more options for toon backstories.

 

Widow gets injured and cannot use psychic abilities and claws. So, they retrain as a SOA.

 

Serve a stint in the Army. Time's up, go enlist in the Navy. You'll then be wearing a naval uniform, not your army uniform. Army's still part of your backstory.

 

Widows and SOAs = different branches of Arachnos.

[TheZag]

Im not sure about arachnos,  but i got to keep my military uniforms after i was discharged.  And those who served in 2 different branches get to keep both sets.  True that you dont wear your old uniforms while serving in a different branch,   but you have them and could technically 'cross dress' even if it would get you in trouble.

 

I guess sometimes people are more options are always good, until its something they dont want and all a sudden more options are a bad thing.  Potential technical limitations aside,  if its possible to mix then i dont see an issue with it.  Maybe a widow went rogue and killed a bane and stole his pants.  Or a crab lost a bet and has to wear a fortunata helm for a week.  I dont see someone elses creativity forcing anyone else to make a mixed costume.

 

[Rudra]

Once you retire from service, yeah, you can wear whichever uniform you please. While you are serving though, you may not wear the wrong uniform. And uniforms can be seized/required to be returned depending on how long you served. Such as by serving less than a full enlistment. (Or as per many fictitious organizations, upon departure from said organization.)

[KaizenSoze]

Widow is married to a SOA. SOA dies in combat, Widow wants to wear a piece of SOA armor to remember them. The opposite also works as back story.

 

It's not that hard to come up with a story for why VEATs would want to mix armor.

[Rudra]

Widow marries SoA. SoA dies. Widow keeps memorabilia. Arachnos still doesn't let her/him mix uniforms. And often, showing emotion like that is taken as a sign of weakness and puts the widow in a bad spot with the rest of Arachnos.

 

When it comes to rules and breaking them? Arachnos is heavy into enforcing their structure and stamping out those that break from it for any reason. Even as a SoA/WoA trying to break into the Destined One bit, Arachnos writ large is out to stomp you out of existence for breaking out of your place. Only when you get to the end of the VEAT arc do you finally get a reprieve from Arachnos. And only because you are ruthless enough and powerful enough to impose your will upon the organization.

 

As a VEAT, you express your individuality with your "hero costume" when you try to draw out the first group of Arachnos out to kill you. It is in the expanded costume slots where you take your individuality and make it manifest. Your VEAT uniform however, is still your allowed/required uniform. So take the VEAT costume elements that are available in the regular costume creator and make your hybrid look in the add-on costume slots.

 

Edit: Also, again, the backstory is not constrained by costume. Write your backstory however you want. Noone is saying you can't have whatever backstory you want.

 

Edit again: Hells, the female Arbiters in GV that have SoA/WoA uniform hybrids? Don't have SoA/WoA uniform hybrids. They are Night Widows with the Mace Mastery patron pool.

 

Edit again again: And if you don't believe me about how Arachnos treats WoAs and SoAs or other personnel that may fall in love with each other? Ask the Fortunata in Port Oakes how that goes in Arachnos. She doesn't get to keep or wear memorabilia of her lover. She was even ordered to murder him to prove she didn't love him more than she was loyal to Arachnos. Her memorabilia is his spirit standing next to her enslaved because that is all she is allowed to have.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Rudra

[50caltech]

35 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Widow marries SoA. SoA dies. Widow keeps memorabilia. Arachnos still doesn't let her/him mix uniforms. And often, showing emotion like that is taken as a sign of weakness and puts the widow in a bad spot with the rest of Arachnos.

 

When it comes to rules and breaking them? Arachnos is heavy into enforcing their structure and stamping out those that break from it for any reason. Even as a SoA/WoA trying to break into the Destined One bit, Arachnos writ large is out to stomp you out of existence for breaking out of your place. Only when you get to the end of the VEAT arc do you finally get a reprieve from Arachnos. And only because you are ruthless enough and powerful enough to impose your will upon the organization.

 

As a VEAT, you express your individuality with your "hero costume" when you try to draw out the first group of Arachnos out to kill you. It is in the expanded costume slots where you take your individuality and make it manifest. Your VEAT uniform however, is still your allowed/required uniform. So take the VEAT costume elements that are available in the regular costume creator and make your hybrid look in the add-on costume slots.

 

Edit: Also, again, the backstory is not constrained by costume. Write your backstory however you want. Noone is saying you can't have whatever backstory you want.

 

Edit again: Hells, the female Arbiters in GV that have SoA/WoA uniform hybrids? Don't have SoA/WoA uniform hybrids. They are Night Widows with the Mace Mastery patron pool.

 

Edit again again: And if you don't believe me about how Arachnos treats WoAs and SoAs or other personnel that may fall in love with each other? Ask the Fortunata in Port Oakes how that goes in Arachnos. She doesn't get to keep or wear memorabilia of her lover. She was even ordered to murder him to prove she didn't love him more than she was loyal to Arachnos. Her memorabilia is his spirit standing next to her enslaved because that is all she is allowed to have.

there needs to be  updates on the achronos side, and hybrids of both widow/soa would be kool.....ie widows with their own pets ability, besides the patron powers pets would be nice, or  Soas with widow pets mixed with their spider pets would be kool options,  mini spider pets with  thrown poisoned blades,  or much like mm thugs summon reinforcements like  the achronos flier deploys mass pets.... 

[KaizenSoze]

14 hours ago, 50caltech said:

there needs to be  updates on the achronos side, and hybrids of both widow/soa would be kool.....ie widows with their own pets ability, besides the patron powers pets would be nice, or  Soas with widow pets mixed with their spider pets would be kool options,  mini spider pets with  thrown poisoned blades,  or much like mm thugs summon reinforcements like  the achronos flier deploys mass pets.... 

I have learned over the last few years that the VEAT code is a mess. So, the chances are any hybrid Widow/SOA is very low.

 

Even VEAT costume code I have learned, since I created this thread, is very messy. Lots of hard coded references by name.

[Sakura Tenshi]

I get why it won’t happen period, but I honestly wish we could just get VEAT costume stuff as part of regular costuming. Ironically not for my own characters but for AE. I’ve wanted to do arcs with variations of normal Arachnos like “Lancer Huntsmen” with Beam Rifles or “Psy Widows” that use Psionic melee.

[Rudra]

Those could actually be pretty damn cool. Not much point to the beam rifles given their beam maces, but still.

[Sakura Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Those could actually be pretty damn cool. Not much point to the beam rifles given their beam maces, but still.

 

Well, the rough concept was for an AE arc on live involving a sort of 'alt-future arachnos'. The Lancer Huntsmen were more meant to just have replaced the standard Wolf Spiders and minion tier Bane Spiders. And really it was a fondness for Bioshock 2's Lancer Big Daddies. The Psy Widows were basically the idea of Night Widow and Fortunata being merged into a single sort of psychic assassination group, and while not mentioned another idea that wasn't quite possible to realize was Mu Mystics all having the 'ghost effect' with the idea being that Arachnos had expanded on the service of the Mu to effectively force them to serve even in death.

 

Although if you want an in-universe reason for laser huntsmen? Maces have crappy ergonomics for firing ranged attacks so Arachnos opted to just give them a gun like normal goons than keep being special snowflakes and making their troops miss all the time.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Sakura Tenshi

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

 

Well, the rough concept was for an AE arc on live involving a sort of 'alt-future arachnos'. The Lancer Huntsmen were more meant to just have replaced the standard Wolf Spiders and minion tier Bane Spiders. And really it was a fondness for Bioshock 2's Lancer Big Daddies. The Psy Widows were basically the idea of Night Widow and Fortunata being merged into a single sort of psychic assassination group, and while not mentioned another idea that wasn't quite possible to realize was Mu Mystics all having the 'ghost effect' with the idea being that Arachnos had expanded on the service of the Mu to effectively force them to serve even in death.

 

Although if you want an in-universe reason for laser huntsmen? Maces have crappy ergonomics for firing ranged attacks so Arachnos opted to just give them a gun like normal goons than keep being special snowflakes and making their troops miss all the time.

Devs? If you're reading this? Maybe one of the myriad dimensions our characters get to explore can have something like this?

 

(Though my take on the point of the beam maces is a dual-purpose weapon. You can blast a target at range and smash it in close with extreme prejudice without damaging the weapon.)

Edited November 2, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add "dimensions". Because I tend to forget to actually write the words I am thinking.

[Zeraphia]

On 10/29/2022 at 6:13 PM, Rudra said:

Not sure why you are confused, @KaizenSoze. As a VEAT, you are playing a Soldier of Arachnos or a Widow of Arachnos, even if you turn your back on Arachnos or even go hero. If your character washed out of widow training, they aren't going to give you widow gear. If you washed out of widow training (and survived) and then started over in the Soldier program, you are a Soldier of Arachnos. They give you the SoA weapons and armor. If you then progress to Bane Spider or Crab Spider, you are a Bane Spider or a Crab Spider. If you made it far enough in the widow program to get the psionics or Night Widow gear, you didn't wash out and you are a Fortunata, Night Widow, or Blood Widow. That's the way Arachnos works.

 

Now, if you want to open up the SoAs and WoAs to the APPs instead of being locked to patron powers? Sure. If you want to come up with some sort of psychic power pool to branch them and other characters out? Let's see it. However, your proposal currently works against the idea of the VEATs. (As far as I know, the typical Arachnos program wash out washes out by death.)

 

Edit: If you want a new EAT, then let's talk new EAT.

You know, I am aware that this clearly isn't what the post was trying to start off as or get to but...

 

I really would *actually* like a new HEAT/VEAT/EAT archetype and something with interesting fresh new gameplay mechanics.

[blue4333]

Just unlock both Widow and SOA costume pieces for everyone (Minus the ones with unique placements e.g. collar). Problem solved.

 

I mean we can use the Crab Spider backpack and Arachnos symbol and cape anyways, what difference would there be if people start using the Widow/Soldier costumes.

[Rudra]

To the best of my knowledge, the problem is that the pieces were not designed for use on standard character models. That's why the VEATs have a locked costume slot from a hidden model for their starting appearance.

[blue4333]

Yes I believe it was mainly the collar that widows and soldiers have that might be out of place.

 

In CoH Icon with NPC pieces turned on, the widow chestpiece and belt didn't seem to have any issues. Hopefully the soldier's pieces would follow suit.