Is it better to slot /traps with procs or a full set?

[Zilean]

Just as the title says. Which do you all prefer? I saw the caltrops discussion, but I am wondering how you all slot your poison trap and mortar.

 

Also what is your rotation? Do you caltrops first then dive in with poison trap so they cant run away as fast? Any help very appreciated.

[Meknomancer]

Lots of procs in the traps. I'm pretty lazy i superspeed in and hit poison trap/acid mortar maybe caltrops. I dropped triage temporarily to test maintenance drone on the bots/traps. What you should be doing....at least the way traps was made, is hitting seeker drones before piling in.

[Disruptor]

Recharge and Procs.

 

Specifically I think fitting 5 LOTG+Recharge into a Traps build is quite important as well as taking Hasten.

 

Poison Trap and Acid Mortar you want up as much as possible. Triage Beacon TBH is kind of fluff but its a solid proc mule for Numina's, Miracle's, Panecea and Preventive Measure although you can be putting at least one of these in Health's default slot. I personally like the concept of TB but its performance is lackluster.

 

On Controller I love putting 5 dmg procs + Lockdown into Poison Trap but thats only possible due to Con AT Enhancements.

 

I run SS w/ Celerity and Stealth + Scorp Shield and try to run in an place Poison Trap first in teams followed by Acid Mortar. I try to keep FFG and SD up before a mob. Usually I can just place a Trip Mine in the middle of a mob while team has aggro. I set up binds that place Caltrops, FFG and SD at my feet (my location) so on occasion I just need to be next to my target and they will get.

 

I have Corrosive Vial and solo I try to combo Web Nade, Caltrops, Corrosive, PT and Acid Mortar.

 

I also find that Burnout is a decent power on Traps...Maybe your stuff is on cooldown in an important situation or maybe you made a mistake, maybe you want more traps in a big fight.

 

I like to create the star of david w/ triage beacon. On TF where there are ambushes I try to set up in advance, if you have enough recharge you can essentially trap two areas the inc ambush and the current fight. I try to place Seeker Drones (from a distance) in a mob as the Tank is iniating.

 

I had a Traps/BR defender that was really fun but my favorite all-time is ill/traps controller. Right now I'm playing a petless pistols/traps mm which I'm enjoying but I'd be lying if I said it was stronger than my other Traps chars.

[TygerDarkstorm]

5 hours ago, Disruptor said:

I had a Traps/BR defender that was really fun but my favorite all-time is ill/traps controller. Right now I'm playing a petless pistols/traps mm which I'm enjoying but I'd be lying if I said it was stronger than my other Traps chars.

I am a diehard lover and player of MM's, but nothing makes me feel like as much of a walking 1-woman army as playing my Ill/Traps controller. It doesn't really start to feel noticeably good until the later levels, but once you get there, it almost feels godly, lol.

[DocMidknight]

21 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I am a diehard lover and player of MM's, but nothing makes me feel like as much of a walking 1-woman army as playing my Ill/Traps controller. It doesn't really start to feel noticeably good until the later levels, but once you get there, it almost feels godly, lol.

 

    Ill/traps troller with fold space.........everything goes kaboom. Then again, demon/traps with fold space and everything goes kaboom also

[Disruptor]

yea ill/traps is one of the strongest combos there is imo

[Uun]

Caltrops - as many procs as I have slots to spare (5 in my current build)

Triage Beacon - 6-slot Preventative Medicine. I don't recommend slotting Numina's or Miracle since those need to be in an active power.

Acid Mortar - 3-4 slot with a defense debuff or accurate defense debuff set. Currently 4x Undermined Defenses (which gets you ED capped recharge)

Poison Trap - mix of hold set and procs. Currently 4x Basilisk's Gaze + 2 procs, but I've gone as high as 5 procs.

Seeker Drones - procs don't work in this

Trip Mine - procs don't work in this except Force Feedback +recharge

[tidge]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:50 AM, Uun said:

Caltrops - as many procs as I have slots to spare (5 in my current build)

Triage Beacon - 6-slot Preventative Medicine. I don't recommend slotting Numina's or Miracle since those need to be in an active power.

Acid Mortar - 3-4 slot with a defense debuff or accurate defense debuff set. Currently 4x Undermined Defenses (which gets you ED capped recharge)

Poison Trap - mix of hold set and procs. Currently 4x Basilisk's Gaze + 2 procs, but I've gone as high as 5 procs.

Seeker Drones - procs don't work in this

Trip Mine - procs don't work in this except Force Feedback +recharge

 

This is similar to my approach, with a big exception being in page 5 I swapped out Triage Beacon for Maintenance Drone (in my Robotics/Traps, obviously not available for other primaries), and I was unimpressed by the %damage in Poison Trap. On almost all my builds, if a Hold is going to have more than 4 slots, I opt for 5x Gladiator's Net over 5x Unbreakable Constraint (of course, the %damage piece from Unbreakable Constraint is golden... see note below). If I want to %proc a Hold, I will minimally use 2x Gladiator's Net but try for 3x to get the +MaxEndurance. Some of the pieces from that set can be boosted to +5 without affecting %proc rates, many Hold powers have such long recharge times that boosting all the pieces has very little effect on rates.

 

Note: The slotting below has 6x Gladiator's Net. I tested Poison Trap against the even-level Clockwork spawns (Kings Row) and Prisoner spawns (Brickstown) and I simply was not observing very much of an effect when the 5th piece was Unbreakable Constraint %Smashing ... I also tested it with Lockdown's %+2 Mag Hold (easier to visualize without having to scrub logs).

 

I never take Trip Mine. I really like Seeker Drones, but I don't have it in my "all tiers of Henchmen" build.

 

Details from my /Traps choices are here. Please note that the levels taken reflect my "one big robot" build, but the slotting is similar to my full-suite of Henchmen.

 

Spoiler

Level 1: Caltrops              

 (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire): Level 50

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold): Level 50

 

Level 10:              Acid Mortar       

 (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff: Level 50

 (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage: Level 50

 (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20

 

Level 20:              Poison Trap       

 (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Recharge/Hold: Level 50

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50

 

Level 28:              Seeker Drones 

 (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun: Level 50

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun: Level 50

 

One last comment about %damage... I believe that there is both a ToHit check and a "ToProc" check for each %proc, so slotted Accuracy in a power with %procs is also important. I'm not sure how this works with pseudo-pets.

[Uun]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

I really like Seeker Drones, but I don't have it in my "all tiers of Henchmen" build.

I assume you're slotting Absolute Amazement solely for the set bonuses. The 25% chance of mag 2 stun isn't worth enhancing. I have mine slotted with 4x Cloud Senses.

 

3 hours ago, tidge said:

One last comment about %damage... I believe that there is both a ToHit check and a "ToProc" check for each %proc, so slotted Accuracy in a power with %procs is also important. I'm not sure how this works with pseudo-pets.

This is true, although I've never tested whether slotting set pieces with accuracy works in a power that doesn't accept accuracy enhancements (i.e., Caltrops and Poison Trap). I run Tactics on my build in any case.

[tidge]

Absolute Amazement is slotted for the set bonuses. In that build (shown elsewhere) the MM is only running with the T3 henchmen, so as much Global Recharge as possible is a core feature.

 

EDIT: Global recharge is important in that build because the MM has several AoE %damage attacks.

Edited November 13, 2022 by tidge

[Arbegla]

I focused on Maximizing Recharge on my bot/traps build. I run between 200-300% global recharge on top of ED capped recharge in most of my powers (Agility Alpha, and the +rech proc in my Arcane Bolt) I also run over 54% defense to most things (which is right around the Incarnate Softcap, before my Support Hybrid pushes me over)

 

This allows me to double stack Triage Beacon, Triple Stack Acid Mortar, double stack Poison Trap (which the +absorb proc, which turns it into a mini protection power as well) and keeps Seeker Drones up every single spawn.

 

Maintenance drone is up every ~25 seconds as well, so my bots don't die nearly as often as they used to before the patch.

 

Going full Procs is nice, but do keep in the mind that the rumor mill has been saying Procs are going to be adjusted sometime soon(tm) so you might not want to stack all of them in one power, as we just don't know what is going to happen with them.

[Carnifax]

Recharge is your #1 focus as a Trapper. Everything benefits from more recharge. 

 

Poison Trap procs well so worth doing. Seekers and Trip Mine procs won't work at all (I assume because the entity dies as it's doing its effect). 

 

On paper Acid looks like it'd be good but in parses didn't come out that well for me. So recharge 1st. Achilles next. Set binus if you're chasing one for it (I usually don't bother). Damage procs last (again I don't really bother any more). 

 

 

[tidge]

I'll just drop this pre-lament here: I sincerely hope that the %proc implementation never changes. What I like about the current implementation:

1. Extra %damage (less so for %effects) is pretty much the only game effect that allows certain ATs to turn up the number of enemies (in solo play) and still be able to complete maps in an amount of time that is within an order of magnitude of other ATs
2. It allows for a level of customization of characters/powers beyond picking different primary/secondary/epic/pools that has an observable outcome in the game... while offering a trade-off (with "set bonuses")
3. The random nature of the %procs is one more source of legit RNG in a game with "defense caps" and "streakbreaker".

As long as the game rewards scale with number of enemies defeated, I think #1 is the dominant concern. I realize some folks get up in arms about DPS (and occasionally DPA), but I feel that thinking about the game in only those terms is ignoring how much of a trudge the game would be for a lot of AT. I suppose I'm dropping this note here, because if there is any AT that ought to be able to appreciate this, it would be MMs (who have lost their henchmen).

[oldskool]

40 minutes ago, tidge said:

I realize some folks get up in arms about DPS (and occasionally DPA), but I feel that thinking about the game in only those terms is ignoring how much of a trudge the game would be for a lot of AT. I suppose I'm dropping this note here, because if there is any AT that ought to be able to appreciate this, it would be MMs (who have lost their henchmen).

 

And some of that is a good bit of gatekeeping too. A degree of "balance" is really hard to take seriously given how this game is built. Instead, arguments around DPS come across like "you can't be better than me" or "you're not playing this game right because how I play is correct". 

This game is incredibly hard to balance in the respect of +/- 5% for the DPS ATs since support ATs can debuff DPS-adjacent attributes. This can create situations where support ATs function at a stronger level than their offense step up would suggest they should. The alternative here is to ensure that the offensive capability has to be counter balanced against the permutations of debuff support in an AT. This ultimately is a crappy way to deal with balance because not all support sets are equal in distribution on debuff (some don't do that at all). 

This game is never going to solve the Kinetics challenge for solo play where a player can buff their abilities to cap by kicking all other combinations in the balls. So, yeah... I don't wanna see a change in the IO system where is set to purposefully enforce a concept of DPS-Tank-Support trinity that exist elsewhere. Customization is what keeps me playing this game. Remove that, and you remove my desire to keep playing. Of course, my opinion doesn't matter since this is free, but still... 

[Bionic_Flea]

This is an older build where I tried to fit in as many procs as I could.  This build is before the recent changes to Bots so while I think it would still work, I would probably re-work it to move some slots around and maybe pick some different powers.  But it works really well and can solo AVs and GMs pretty easily.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Paste Bot Flea: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones

• (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage
• (7) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance
• (7) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (9) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
• (11) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura

Level 1: Web Grenade

• (A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge
• (46) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize
• (46) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance
• (48) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy
• (48) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
• (48) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 2: Caltrops

• (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (25) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
• (31) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (31) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff
• (33) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 4: Combat Jumping

• (A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
• (5) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• (5) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 6: Equip Robot

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 8: Kick

• (A) Empty

Level 10: Acid Mortar

• (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
• (11) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff
• (25) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (42) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (43) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage

Level 12: Protector Bots

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (13) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (13) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (19) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (21) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
• (21) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 14: Tough

• (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (15) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (15) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (17) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (17) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (19) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP

Level 16: Force Field Generator

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 18: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 20: Poison Trap

• (A) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (23) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
• (23) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
• (37) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (40) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (42) Unbreakable Constraint - Recharge/Accuracy

Level 22: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 24: Assault

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 26: Assault Bot

• (A) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus
• (27) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance
• (27) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage
• (29) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance
• (29) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (31) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen

Level 28: Tactics

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 30: Seeker Drones

• (A) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance
• (33) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (34) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
• (34) Superior Frozen Blast - Recharge/Chance for Immobilize

Level 32: Upgrade Robot

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 35: Trip Mine

• (A) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
• (36) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
• (36) Armageddon - Recharge/Accuracy
• (36) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
• (37) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
• (37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 38: Triage Beacon

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
• (39) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
• (39) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
• (39) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
• (40) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
• (40) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

Level 41: Scorpion Shield

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 44: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (50) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 47: Super Speed

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 49: Power Boost

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Celerity - +Stealth

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Run Speed IO

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO

Level 2: Health

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
• (3) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (3) Performance Shifter - EndMod

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Robotic Drones Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 1: Battle Drone
Level 26: Assault Bot
Level 12: Protector Bot
Level 47: Speed Phase
------------

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Bionic_Flea said:

This is an older build where I tried to fit in as many procs as I could.  This build is before the recent changes to Bots so while I think it would still work, I would probably re-work it to move some slots around and maybe pick some different powers.  But it works really well and can solo AVs and GMs pretty easily.

 

My experience with GMs and AVs since page 5 (with by Robotics/Traps) build has been overall disappointing. Generally, the GM/AV will simply run which makes it hard to keep focused fire on them... and if the MM chases them, there is a real danger of "leaving the henchmen (and traps) behind" which is not good. Here are my specific experiences with a level 50 MM:

 

Halloween GMs in low-level zones (Hollows, Skyway, Faultline) : Easy-peasy, easier than last year (pre-page 5). I never had that much trouble with them, it is just that defeat times fell noticeably.

 

GMs in Peregrine Island: I can no longer defeat one, and can't really survive against more-than-one. And since they RUN, there is almost always going to be more than one. Prior to page 5, this was a VERY tedious endeavor... but now it feels much worse. I suspect it is the shift in the -regen to the MM that is the source of the trouble here. I want to note that my MM had (and used) two of the primary attacks before page 5, so it is not like the comparison is apples-to-oranges.

 

AVs in solo (Classic Blue) TFs: I have been able to solo each one I tried (generally the weeklies, I can recall Penny Yin, Citadel, Enesto Hess) but in each case the AV reaches a point at which they run... Clamor went to the hallway beyond the "coolant belt" room, Hess was running/jumping all over the Goliath Mech Man. I guess this is an interesting sort of challenge, but it is highly frustrating. Vandal was actually the most challenging of these three: He also ran, but what made him a challenge was that his Melee attacks were focused on the MM, which made it REALLY dangerous to be far from the henchmen.

 

I have also tried some 'even level' events:

 

Paladin Construction in Kings Row: This was fine (easier for a solo MM than on other AT), but of course the construct doesn't run while it is being built and the spawns are all nearby.

 

Zig Breakout in Brickstown: Still doable, with the only noticeable difference (to me) was that the undefeated Freaks and the final 3 Prisoners are more likely to hightail away from the event, and that it is harder to keep track of all of them with my attention divided between the Bots and the mobs. Times have dropped, but only because of the "run away"... I don't like to leave this event unfinished, so I find myself hanging around waiting for the mobs to come back.

 

[Arbegla]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

My experience with GMs and AVs since page 5 (with by Robotics/Traps) build has been overall disappointing. Generally, the GM/AV will simply run which makes it hard to keep focused fire on them... and if the MM chases them, there is a real danger of "leaving the henchmen (and traps) behind" which is not good. Here are my specific experiences with a level 50 MM:

 

Halloween GMs in low-level zones (Hollows, Skyway, Faultline) : Easy-peasy, easier than last year (pre-page 5). I never had that much trouble with them, it is just that defeat times fell noticeably.

 

GMs in Peregrine Island: I can no longer defeat one, and can't really survive against more-than-one. And since they RUN, there is almost always going to be more than one. Prior to page 5, this was a VERY tedious endeavor... but now it feels much worse. I suspect it is the shift in the -regen to the MM that is the source of the trouble here. I want to note that my MM had (and used) two of the primary attacks before page 5, so it is not like the comparison is apples-to-oranges.

 

AVs in solo (Classic Blue) TFs: I have been able to solo each one I tried (generally the weeklies, I can recall Penny Yin, Citadel, Enesto Hess) but in each case the AV reaches a point at which they run... Clamor went to the hallway beyond the "coolant belt" room, Hess was running/jumping all over the Goliath Mech Man. I guess this is an interesting sort of challenge, but it is highly frustrating. Vandal was actually the most challenging of these three: He also ran, but what made him a challenge was that his Melee attacks were focused on the MM, which made it REALLY dangerous to be far from the henchmen.

 

I have also tried some 'even level' events:

 

Paladin Construction in Kings Row: This was fine (easier for a solo MM than on other AT), but of course the construct doesn't run while it is being built and the spawns are all nearby.

 

Zig Breakout in Brickstown: Still doable, with the only noticeable difference (to me) was that the undefeated Freaks and the final 3 Prisoners are more likely to hightail away from the event, and that it is harder to keep track of all of them with my attention divided between the Bots and the mobs. Times have dropped, but only because of the "run away"... I don't like to leave this event unfinished, so I find myself hanging around waiting for the mobs to come back.

 

 

I'm surprised you're experiencing more running away, do you not use Web Grenade or other Immobilize effects? AVs (and even some GMs) have a vulnerability to immobilize built in, to allow for containment on Controllers, but it also allows MMs (and other classes really) to lock them down and keep them from running away.

 

I've had an opposite experience with my Bot/traps since the changes, as things just melt so fast now that I don't have to lock things down as much. A quick volley of Web Grenade -> Electric Fences -> Web Grenade on a boss/EB/AV and by the time I get the rest of my debuffs down, its near death just from AoE and Single target attacks from the robots.

[tidge]

It could be that I tossed (ha!) Web Grenade from the build, I am surprised to read that AVs have a vulnerability to immobilize.

[Bionic_Flea]

14 minutes ago, tidge said:

It could be that I tossed (ha!) Web Grenade from the build, I am surprised to read that AVs have a vulnerability to immobilize.

It was a bone thrown to controllers many years ago by the live team after containment became a thing.  The Purple Triangles of Doom made controls all but useless, but with a hole to immobile at least they could double their already low damage.

 

Oh, and AVs and GMs hate caltrops and missing.  The combination of not being able to hit due to defense and the dots and afraid from caltrops is too much for them.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[Arbegla]

12 minutes ago, tidge said:

It could be that I tossed (ha!) Web Grenade from the build, I am surprised to read that AVs have a vulnerability to immobilize.

 

Well, purple triangles don't affect immobilize, so they just have normal protections that a boss has and nothing special.

 

In the grand scheme of AVs protections, though, it might as well be a vulnerability, as other forms of mez get destroyed with the purple triangles.

[Disruptor]

Quote

Oh, and AVs and GMs hate caltrops and missing.  The combination of not being able to hit due to defense and the dots and afraid from caltrops is too much for them.

 

 

what does this mean exactly? 

[Bionic_Flea]

11 hours ago, Disruptor said:

what does this mean exactly? 

NPCs in the game basically have a frustration meter.  When the frustration meter reaches a certain level, the NPCs want to run away.  Excessive misses, taking a lot more damage and not damaging, "afraid" status caused by things like caltrops and fire patches, constantly taking damage (DoTs), are all things that fill the meter.

 

So caltrops has afraid status, and DoTs, (plus the damage from the Bots, which includes a fire patch) and Force Field Generator + Bot bubbles along with a good build will have you and the Bots at soft cap  defense leading NPCs to miss a lot.  The combination of all these things makes critters want to run and they will unless you immobilize or taunt them.  It's most noticeable on Arch-Villains (AVs) and Giant Monsters (GMs) as every thing else dies too quickly to let them run.

[Disruptor]

So thats why they run so much against my toons. Do you suppose its not worth using Caltrops against AV/GMs as a Traps character who wants them to stay near poison trap and acid mortar?

Edited November 20, 2022 by Disruptor

[Bionic_Flea]

Correct.  If you don't have any immob or taunt, I would recommend refraining from caltrops on AVs/GMs.

[Arbegla]

5 hours ago, Disruptor said:

So thats why they run so much against my toons. Do you suppose its not worth using Caltrops against AV/GMs as a Traps character who wants them to stay near poison trap and acid mortar?

 

Sadly, Acid Mortar also makes mobs run a lot, due to the DoT and the debuff. But its not nearly as bad as Caltrops.