Payback time Clockwork

[smnolimits43]

I'm looking for a set that will allow me to be able sapp the endurance from my enemies.  I haven't played an electric/electric defender till now.  Is this the best set to perform my main goal ??  I'm going to be making a clockwork character, that has decided to be a hero.  

[twozerofoxtrot]

If you really want to Sap, I'd think a Kin/Elec would be the best bet.  

 

Elec Aff isnt as focused on sapping enemies as it is on supporting allies. There are some powers that have that effect but it's awkward to leverage them effectively for sapping.

 

Kin on the other had has Transference, which is one of (maybe the) best sapping powers in the game, drawing over 50% End from enemies in a 20ft radius before enhancements. And it's up every 30 seconds default. With a good build this can get to 100% end sapped every 8 seconds. 

[MoonSheep]

powerboosted transference is surprisingly just “okay” from my experience. lightning ball/short circuit are good end drainers though

 

on the test server i’ve found an elec dom to be a better end drainer. my experience of trying to find the ultimate end-drainer is that clicky powers make it a constant grind of trying to keep that end bar low. always on PBAOE powers help so much

Edited December 23, 2022 by MoonSheep

[smnolimits43]

thanks for getting back to me, i always thought transference was just for getting your endurance back ???

[twozerofoxtrot]

13 hours ago, smnolimits43 said:

i always thought transference was just for getting your endurance back ???

 

Most Kin powers will debuff enemies as much as buff allies.

 

Transference will drain enemies centered on your target while also providing End to you and allies in range of the target (20ft).

 

Only thing that's tricky about the last part is that the end return won't work if the target dies mid-cast.

[Sir Myshkin]

Speaking from experience of trying to do the same thing for years:

 

Don’t.

 

Okay, now that I’ve said my peace, let’s talk about it. Kin/Electric will probably drive you up a wall on how poor they perform together. In order to get the sapping experience you have to use one power to actually STOP recovery, and most don’t do that well, but Short Circuit does, and to make it better you have to commit it to the task (no damage). Then it has to be supported be tagging powers to cause drain, and you want this to happen in large fast chunks, so Ball Lightning is now getting pushed to this purpose too.

 

Now as a Kin it does have Transference, and it is a great tool at yanking chunks of endurance, but it’s primary effect is on the target, and is best for bosses and up, and takes quite a few applications to get moving on things like AVs.

 

This means you’re now constantly spamming three different powers in an attempt to just dwindle and recovery lock one spawn. Just one. Every time. 
 

Pass.

 

So my advice is two fold:

Either play an ElecB/ElecAff Corr and focus on being a damage magnet with solid support abilities, or…

Roll an ElecB/Nrg Blaster with Agility Core Alpha, Permeation Interface and Power Boost, focus again on being a damaging Blaster and let the Alpha slot all your attacks with End Mod, and Power Boost to super charge it, and watch how the Blaster can sap out better and faster than the Defender (by pure accident) while actually managing to kill things like a beast.

[Doomguide2005]

     You can (unless I missed something during my enforced hiatus) cap both the damage and endmod aspects in Short Circuit.  And Power Boost or PBU on Short Circuit on a high recharge can do some scary vales to both end drain and recovery debuff.  But solo it's rough to be an equal to just outright damage.

[biostem]

On top of what's been said, NPCs use end "differently", in that the end cost of their powers, and their pool of available end, vary quite a bit from how players utilize these resources.  Basically, regular enemies tend to die before any end sapping becomes worthwhile, usually getting off their alpha strike beforehand.  Tougher enemies, like EBs and AVs, tend to have very high recovery and larger end reserves, so unless you sap 100% of their end and halt any recovery at all, they'll still attack with full force.  On top of that, they don't have toggles to drop should you bottom them out, so it's not really like they'll be much weaker.  Stacking holds and slows tends to, IMO, be more effective against such enemies...

Edited December 25, 2022 by biostem

[Sir Myshkin]

23 hours ago, biostem said:

On top of what's been said, NPCs use end "differently", in that the end cost of their powers, and their pool of available end, vary quite a bit from how players utilize these resources.  Basically, regular enemies tend to die before any end sapping becomes worthwhile, usually getting off their alpha strike beforehand.  Tougher enemies, like EBs and AVs, tend to have very high recovery and larger end reserves, so unless you sap 100% of their end and halt any recovery at all, they'll still attack with full force.  On top of that, they don't have toggles to drop should you bottom them out, so it's not really like they'll be much weaker.  Stacking holds and slows tends to, IMO, be more effective against such enemies...

 

Ah yes, I forgot to mention this part. EB's and AV's and Monsters and GM's cannot functionally be zeroed out like players can. Many of them carry abilities that literally cost like 1 End meaning there's no realistic scenario where they won't have an opportunity to slip an attack in even under best circumstances. Nothing like going through all that effort just to watch then smack you anyway.

[bustacap]

Sapping is best by.... Electric control. I've seen some that can zero out a monster's endurance bar in seconds. Your damage is very meh though. 

[Carnifax]

I've two "sappers". In both cases Sapping is part of the build rather than being the be-all and end-all. Sapping just isn't good enough to be your "only reason to be"

 

First is Elec Control / Poison. Poison is useful here for PGT. The Poison version of this does - Recovery rather than -Regen, so stops things from recovering. But Sapping is like another layer of Control here. I'm relying on it plus Holds, Sleeps, Knockdown and Confuse. That said a Elec Control/Poison/Mu should work well as a Sapper (or Primal for Power Boost but I think the slap from Power Sink will be more useful). 

 

The 2nd is a Defender, but not what you'd expect. Trick Arrow / Elec / Mu. On the face of it Trick Arrow doesn't seem to bring a lot to a Sapper at all. But it's got 3 powers which help to some extent : Disruption Arrow, EMP Arrow and Acid Arrow. 

 

Disruption lowers their End by a tiny amount, making it a little easier (typically 6.25%). Pretty meh. The only reason it's nice is that it allows you to slot the Chance for Self Heal in, so you've a chance to top up on healing just by casting it. Since it no longer needs Recharge this is a good "default slot" for it. 

EMP Arrow does ~40% -End. But it's on a long timer. So again not great. 

Acid Arrow however has a load of -Special. This basically acts as like a "debuff powerboost" so if I Short Circuit after an Acid Arrow my End Drain goes up. Testing on my dummy AE arc 

 

"Vanilla" short circuit

2023-01-03 13:51:35 You hit Dummy Minion with your Short Circuit for 66.49 points of their endurance.
 

And after an Acid Arrow

2023-01-03 13:50:01 You hit Dummy Minion with your Short Circuit for 90.44 points of their endurance.

 

So nearly a 50% buff. 

 

(note my Short Circuit isn't quite maxxed out for End Mod because I 6 slotted Power Transfer for the set bonus. It's a decent compromise between End mod and Damage though and gives me a change to self-heal on every one I hit with it)
 

You could combine that with the Power epic for Power Build Up and you'd be doing a lot of sapping for small periods of time (PBUs recharge is looooong). Personally I went Trick Arrow / Elec / Mu for the great Resist armour & Power Sink as a source of extra AoE Sap. 

 

Overall though I'm a Debuffer, where some of that debuff is the blue bar. Although Trick Arrow is pure ranged there's nothing wrong with using it point blank. So you can blind everything (with a huge -ToHit), get in close, Disrupt them, Acid them, Short Circuit + Power Sink and then they're basically helpless. Then you can layer Oil Slick and/or EMP and/or nuke as you like. 

 

So my recommendation for a "Massive debuffer who also is decent at Sapping" is this. It's also a pretty cheapish build. Two purples (not sets, just the damage procs), Defender ATOs and no Winters at all. I'll note that Tesla Cage is still pure dirt and to be honest I should respec it out. The chaining mechanic is worthless and the proccablity is also terrible (so there's one Purple that can be dropped or moved).

 

The Short Circuit mechanic is also disappointing. It looks flashy but the total damage is adds is pretty awful when you parse it out. The best improvement to Elec wasn't any of those changes, it was simply lowering the animation time for Short Circuit. Shocked! adds about 4% damage to SC. It's pretty chronic. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Robo N Hood: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flash Arrow

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
• (3) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
• (3) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
• (46) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance

Level 1: Charged Bolts

• (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/RechargeTime
• (5) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (5) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage

Level 2: Entangling Arrow

• (A) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy

Level 4: Ball Lightning

• (A) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage
• (11) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Recharge
• (13) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (13) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (15) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (15) Superior Defender's Bastion - Recharge/Chance for Minor PBAoE Heal

Level 6: Kick

• (A) Empty

Level 8: Ice Arrow

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (9) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (11) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (43) Ice Mistral's Torment - Chance for Cold Damage
• (47) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• (47) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 10: Short Circuit

• (A) Power Transfer - EndMod
• (34) Power Transfer - Damage/Recharge
• (34) Power Transfer - Damage/EndMod
• (34) Power Transfer - Damage/Accuracy/Endurance
• (37) Power Transfer - Damage/Accuracy/Recharge/Endurance
• (37) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self

Level 12: Poison Gas Arrow

• (A) Call of the Sandman - Chance of Heal Self

Level 14: Tough

• (A) Resist Damage IO
• (25) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (46) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 16: Acid Arrow

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (45) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (49) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
• (49) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
• (49) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
• (50) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage

Level 18: Disruption Arrow

• (A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self

Level 20: Zapp

• (A) Sting of the Manticore - Accuracy/Damage
• (21) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Endurance
• (21) Sting of the Manticore - Accuracy/Interrupt/Range
• (25) Sting of the Manticore - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• (31) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Interrupt/Recharge
• (33) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 22: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 24: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (19) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 26: Oil Slick Arrow

• (A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage
• (27) Artillery - Damage/Endurance
• (27) Artillery - Damage/Recharge
• (31) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Artillery - Accuracy/Recharge/Range
• (40) Artillery - Endurance/Recharge/Range

Level 28: Tesla Cage

• (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
• (29) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (29) Superior Vigilant Assault - RechargeTime/PBAoE +Absorb
• (31) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (43) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)

Level 30: Charge Up

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 32: EMP Arrow

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
• (33) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
• (48) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (48) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

Level 35: Voltaic Sentinel

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

Level 38: Thunderous Blast

• (A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Artillery - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Artillery - Damage/Endurance
• (39) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage
• (40) Artillery - Accuracy/Recharge/Range
• (40) Artillery - Endurance/Recharge/Range

Level 41: Charged Armor

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (42) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (42) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (42) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 44: Power Sink

• (A) Preemptive Optimization - Accuracy/Recharge
• (45) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance
• (45) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Recharge
• (46) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• (43) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• (48) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance/Recharge

Level 47: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 49: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 1: Vigilance 

Level 1: Brawl

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Carnifax

[Doomguide2005]

@CarnifaxEver try Electric/TA Controller?  I do think Electric controllers are very strong drainers but it can take a moment (hence why it's part of the whole rather than the end all).

 

And yes PBU has a long, long cool down.  Perhaps that's why the scariest numbers I've seen with SC we're on my Emp/Elec/Power Defender.  Most of my Empaths build for a ton a recharge which as you've mentioned means high recharge/short cool down on Short Circuit which in turn makes for strong sapping.  Short Circuit on a  sub 7 sec cool down backed by PBU (about every third mob) is frighteningly effective.  Hadn't finished the build on HC just started and all that was prior to the changes to Electric Blast on HC including reduced animation time.  Never tried what the Gaussian's proc added to PBU might do for the damage either.

[Zect]

I've said it elsewhere, but elecaff is not a good sapping set. Look at the amount of -end in its powers. It has a lot of -recov, but does not floor blue bars quickly.

 

If you are looking for a good sapper, especially one that is also useful outside of sapping, you should try... wait for it...

 

A blaster.

 

Elec/energy and elec/elec are both perfectly capable drainers. The former has only 60s base rech on power boost (half of corr/fender power boost) allowing you to engage every spawn with power boost. The latter has power sink. They both get this without an epic, meaning they mature far earlier and drain far more reliably.

 

The best thing is that, unlike fenders messing around with transference and whatnot, or elec trollers patiently twiddling thumbs waiting for something, anything to happen, sapping on blasters feels more like something that happens naturally in the course of massacring stuff rather than a distraction from other, better things you could be doing with your time.

[Doomguide2005]

If you go Blaster try Elec/Fire well it misses out on Power Boost but it's also Fire, the AoE output of the pairing is insane fun if not a completely min-max set up.  Then of course the slight issue of Clockwork being renowned fire users ...