Pets, Personal Attacks, How do you like to build your character?

[SmalltalkJava]

I think /sonic and /FF could be used with a MM weapon and pet build.  With sonic you’d probably want melee pets die to the -res friendly target toggle.   

[larrymcg421]

I really like the Beast attacks because it feels like having extra pets. Having said that, I only kept the cone one just for a little AOE damage. It also works well with Nature because my Heal will be lined up the same way as my attack, so I don't have to reposition very much to make it effective.

[Catgoyle]

The early pets add way more dps and self-survival through bodyguard tho

Zombie/Necro:

The T1 pets provide even more debuffing (all zombies and my two attacks have -acc added). Plus they're good fodder for Soul Extraction.

 

Uses both attacks -- help fight and pull, besides needing the self-heal with the second attack, even though its hard on endurance running the bubble (Suppress pain) and spamming Nullify Pain.

Other thoughts.

Teleport Foe is great fun: "OH HAI THERE" and helps to thin out larger groups. Team Teleport works more consistently than Group Flight, even if I have to pause on a rooftop occasionally and rest up.

-------------

Bots/Traps:T1 pets are the mainline troops. Protector bots+drone are there to bubble them and try to keep them alive.

Attacks-I only use Pulse Rifle Burst while spamming Web Grenade.

 

Other thoughts:

I'm a bit meh about group flight -- I end up outpacing them and dropping them out of the air anyways. I might respec and postpone it.  For thematic reasons I took flight instead of TP (and use hover for Def).

 

Really need to respec anyways -- not sure why/how I didn't pick up caltrops, probably postpone Group Flight in favor or this.

 

 

 

[Wintervoid]

As with everything....it depends.

 

If you have better power picks and/or have neither the time nor endurance, then skip the attacks.

 

If you have weak picks, you have time and endurance available, then yes, take the attacks. 

 

As a Beast/Kin, I started out with 2 attacks.  It did speed up leveling.  As time went on, I specced out of them and only have Arcane Bolt on my bar now (because it is a prerequisite).  Normally, I am so busy with abilities that I don't have time to use it, but if I have a few seconds downtime between other abilities, I fire it  off.  Does it change the course of a battle?  No.  At most, it speeds it up a small amount.  But using all my End and Time is more efficient then just standing there doing nothing. 

 

As a Bots/Cold I want the personal attacks.  I am so bored with my soft capped bots that I may as well convert my time/end to damage. 

[_NOPE_]

I came here for talk about personal attacks (like forum drama). I was disappointed.

[Catgoyle]

I came here for talk about personal attacks (like forum drama). I was disappointed.

 

NO U!  :o

[_NOPE_]

I came here for talk about personal attacks (like forum drama). I was disappointed.

 

NO U!  :o

 

Eh... it's a start. Thanks for throwing a bone. +1 Inf.

[Chance Jackson]

I haven't taken personal attacks since i was noob back when the game was live.

[Tooth]

I typically didn't take the attacks on live.  Now that I've got a /Rad MM there is lots of downtime where I just watch my minions pew pew in between debuffs.  I have been using the prestige powers a lot, especially since Radiation Infection increases my chances to hit with them.

[kelly Rocket]

Honestly if I'm using a secondary that's super passive, I might take attacks... But even then I'm more likely to take Boxing/Kick/Cross Punch since I need one of those to get into Tough and Weave anyway.

[khy]

With a couple newer characters I have I started using personal attacks early on while levelling, and specced out of them later when I can pick up APP/PPP powers instead.

[kelly Rocket]

With a couple newer characters I have I started using personal attacks early on while levelling, and specced out of them later when I can pick up APP/PPP powers instead.

 

Never really seen the point. I can be level 12 in half an hour if I want to be, so...

[khy]

Never really seen the point. I can be level 12 in half an hour if I want to be, so...

Well it's like Fedifensor said, you should always be doing SOMETHING. Either debuffing enemies, buffing allies, healing, or attacking. With many of my builds I find that early on I don't have enough to do, so I spec into some attacks to fill in the empty time during fights. Later on that becomes less of an issue as I get powers in my second set. I've tried a couple times taking personal attacks early on, and respeccing out of them at 25 to 30ish and it felt like it did make some of the fights quicker.

 

What I did with my latest couple characters is avoid the Leadership pools until 25ish because earlier on they're less important and vital. Lower level enemies go down quickly and you won't see as much of an effect from your auras earlier on. Then when I hit 25, I respec and drop my direct attacks and put leadership back in, and I have enough to keep myself busy and active during fights.

[Dixa]

I used to be one of those that would decry anyone using the attacks while leveling, but honestly why not?  The prestige attacks are end hungry anyway and for some secondaries it’s better than doing nothing.

[Zepp]

Play your toon how you want to. Demon offers a unique attack set not found elsewhere, as such, it would be reasonable to run a petless Demon MM, just to have access to the whip, and where there's a whip there's a way... That being said, the MM ATOs have some of the best set bonuses of all the ATOs, but need to be slotted in pets. Furthermore, a petless MM is basically just a weak blaster, so it doesn't make sense outside of Demons to do it (and even then, you might as well do Sonic for similar debuffs and greater range even though Demons animations are much cooler).

[kelly Rocket]

Never really seen the point. I can be level 12 in half an hour if I want to be, so...

Well it's like Fedifensor said, you should always be doing SOMETHING. Either debuffing enemies, buffing allies, healing, or attacking. With many of my builds I find that early on I don't have enough to do, so I spec into some attacks to fill in the empty time during fights. Later on that becomes less of an issue as I get powers in my second set. I've tried a couple times taking personal attacks early on, and respeccing out of them at 25 to 30ish and it felt like it did make some of the fights quicker.

 

What I did with my latest couple characters is avoid the Leadership pools until 25ish because earlier on they're less important and vital. Lower level enemies go down quickly and you won't see as much of an effect from your auras earlier on. Then when I hit 25, I respec and drop my direct attacks and put leadership back in, and I have enough to keep myself busy and active during fights.

 

Just seems like a waste of a respec (Not that they're limited, but they're not free). I mean, why not just DFB to level 12 or so and then TF to 25? You'll get there in a day and then there's no reason to take those attacks you're going to have to respec out of anyway. Hell, you could not summon your pets at all and you're still contributing support to a team.

 

Usually I just grab the double xp booster and run the tutorial, street sweep to level 4, then do the Matthew Habashy->Officer Fields->Aaron Thierry arc, then Twinshot, all solo, and then find a Posi to tag along on. But even leveling that way (Which is nothing like as fast as I *could* be leveling), I've never felt a need for personal attacks unless I went /FF or /Sonic.

 

I *could* take them, and it would maybe make the soloing part go faster, but it already goes so fast that who cares? Not worth a respec to me. And any damage contribution I'd make on a TF team with my personal attack powers would be basically meaningless. I'd rather take it easy and just focus on support. Half the time I don't even have my pets attack.

[BlackenBlue71]

I have two MMs: One Robots/Dark, one Thugs/Storm.

 

The Bots/Dark is level 16, and I have Pulse Rifle Blast and Photon Grenade for attacks. I rarely use the Photon Grenade, unless I'm targeting a group of mobs that has at least one yellow or higher con mob in it. I will not need Repair, because of Twilight Grasp. I use Darkest Night and Shadow Fall when I need to, but have to carry plenty of blue inspirations if I have to use them a lot. Also have Maneuvers from the Leadership pool, but use it situationally. Its slotted with an endurance reduction at the moment.

 

On the Thugs/Storm, I just hit level 12. I use Pistols and Empty Clip, but try not to use the latter a lot since its a close range attack. From Storm Summoning, I only have Gale and Snow Storn, so far. I use Gale a lot, and have it slotted for Accuracy and Damage more than Knockback. I'll be picking up Gang War at 18, and slotting two recharges it asap before anything else. But I am definitely picking up 02 Boost at level 14.

 

The Bots/Dark is a hero, while the Thugs/Storm is a Going Rogue Resistance.

 

Waaay back when CoV came out, I had a Mercs/Traps MM, but don't remember much except that Trip Mines weren't worth even having on him, and that I used Slug a lot.

[Coyote]

There is another thread around, titled "What's the deal with Controllers at 50?"

 

That thread laments how many powerful teams don't need all the defense that is available to teams, that a defense-oriented Controller can bring. Some good points are made in it, about how you may need a defensive character at times, but less often at level 50 when other characters have their defenses fully set up.

 

So... given the good points in that thread, doesn't it make a bit of sense to add SOME damage to the team rather than some completely useless debuff power? Or worrying about always keeping up Endurance for emergency heals... on a team that is mowing through content? Even if the damage seems worthless at 100 points when someone else has a comparable blast that does 180, that 100 can kill a minion just as dead when the minion has a sliver of health left.

 

Damage is always useful, in every team, ever. In a few cases it's not useful ENOUGH to spend animation time and Endurance on it... but there are more cases when you want more damage than more defense, than the other way around. Building primarily for defense when your main damage output is pets makes sense... building for no offense outside of the pets limits the character on strong teams.

[Straenge]

So I used to have quite a few MM's but not as familiar with some of the sets as others as I stuck with Bots, Demons and Mercs. I had others but focused mainly on those three and built as GM/AV solo'ers. I remember the old threads about petless MM's and the scoffing at taking attacks while arguing the debuffs were minor.

 

Personally, I build around concept and optimization but also my playstyle. I am a micromanaging blaster that utilizes strategy more than anything else. I have always taken personal attacks and kept at least the one or two that had the better secondary debuff. For instance with Mercs, Burst has pitiful damage but it has -Def that helps a bit with their Lethal only damage. I also fit uniques in when possible like chance to holds. Same with Demons -res secondary on the whip attacks. Instead of building for damage like a blaster, I build around balance but making the debuffs stonger as well as pulling aggro, especially on those builds I couldn't fit Provoke in.

 

I think it really just depends on playstyle and what you want vs atypical number crunching stacks. But you can do both or you can just go with a theme and build around what you feel like doing. I knew an MM who made it to lvl 40 petless... how I have no idea and even they said they would never do it again. I also knew one who only took the T2 and 3 Demons. But Demons/Traps is so good anyway that you have more wiggle room.

 

I always explained to people what you have fun with is the most important and if you want a godlike build based solely on the numbers, you can follow the cookie-cutter builds that are still around and if it makes you happy, that's ok too. But I think how you play and what you want vs trying new things can work as well. I have yet to do much with Necro or Thugs and never made it past 20s with either on live so I may change that.

[BlackenBlue71]

One thing I hate about MMs in general? (Or at least with the builds I've played with) Having to slot a ton of endurance reduction and recover IOs, if you run toggles. My Bots/Dark can't run Darkest Night, Shadow Fall and Maneuvers all together for long without me having to pop inspirations to recover if I also have to use Twilight Grasp for heals. If its a fight involving an orange con mob, forget about it. I won't use Shadow Fall and will just pop off Photon Grenade before hitting a blue.

 

On my Thugs/Storm Summoning, I'm adding a slot to Snow Storm just for an endurance reduction IO when he levels up again.  And probably one to either Stamina, or to Gale for the same thing even though I need a Knockback added to it. I'm just glad the Enforcer comes with buffs, so I don't need the Leadership pool on that character.

 

I do recall that I had similar problems running toggles on my Mercs/Traps MM way back when. And he had a good chunk of the Leadership pool going.

[Fedifensor]

IOs give a lot of leeway with endurance for toggle-heavy builds, but it’s not cheap.  Using my Sentinel as an example, she has Stamina 2-slotted (would be 3, but I didn’t want to blow the respec later when I approach 50 and hit the ED cap), a Miracle +Recovery unique IO in Health, Def/End or Res/End in all of her Defense and Resist Damage toggles, a few set bonuses that give +Rec or +End, and I’ve considered adding a second slot to Health so I could slot Numina’s +Regen/+Recovery unique IO.

 

My Mastermind, even with the Leadership pool, is much more reasonable on Endurance use, and always has spare endurance for attacks or other powers...but I’m running one of the better sets for that (Bots/Traps), and I keep an eye on what IOs I need to add to reduce costs.

[Wintervoid]

Just seems like a waste of a respec (Not that they're limited, but they're not free). I mean, why not just DFB to level 12 or so and then TF to 25? You'll get there in a day and then there's no reason to take those attacks you're going to have to respec out of anyway. Hell, you could not summon your pets at all and you're still contributing support to a team.

 

I don't quite get this.  Respecs are cheap.  Last I got one was 400-500k on the marketplace.  I can make that on the marketplace fairly quickly.  Alternately, if you level as quickly as you state, it should be easy to earn that quickly the old fashion way.  Surely it will take less time then the time you will save by speeding up missions (assuming no better choices for powers/time/end).

 

I will say I normally play redside, so I tend to solo more as there are less options for teams redside.  That may taint my views.

 

 

[BlackenBlue71]

That's the one thing I hate about redside: Lack of teams. That's why my Going Rogue MM will likely end up going hero.

 

I've got a Mind/Fire Dominator named Mindburn for redside, and he solos well. (Is also looking for a SG to join.) Might make a Sentinel for redside, as well.

[kelly Rocket]

There is another thread around, titled "What's the deal with Controllers at 50?"

 

That thread laments how many powerful teams don't need all the defense that is available to teams, that a defense-oriented Controller can bring. Some good points are made in it, about how you may need a defensive character at times, but less often at level 50 when other characters have their defenses fully set up.

 

So... given the good points in that thread, doesn't it make a bit of sense to add SOME damage to the team rather than some completely useless debuff power? Or worrying about always keeping up Endurance for emergency heals... on a team that is mowing through content? Even if the damage seems worthless at 100 points when someone else has a comparable blast that does 180, that 100 can kill a minion just as dead when the minion has a sliver of health left.

 

Damage is always useful, in every team, ever. In a few cases it's not useful ENOUGH to spend animation time and Endurance on it... but there are more cases when you want more damage than more defense, than the other way around. Building primarily for defense when your main damage output is pets makes sense... building for no offense outside of the pets limits the character on strong teams.

 

Endgame is not the game. I have something like 26 or 27 characters, not one of them is level 50 yet. Unless you do something lame like AE powerleveling to 50, you'll spend much more time playing the game before 50 than after 50.

 

That said... Even if I were dealing with a situation where defensive protections were not needed by any team I was on, I'd still be reluctant to take my primary attacks. There are better attacks in the pools, and so many other things I'd rather have. Hasten, Burnout, Rune of Protection, Tough and Weave... And hell, while other people on the team may not need my Maneuvers, I sure as hell need it. It's almost always an important part of my build's defenses, just for me personally, not even for giving the team Defense. Usually if my build is soft-capped, it's soft capped because I'm running Maneuvers and Weave and CJ and possibly Stealth on top of that, and drop any one of those and I lose soft cap.

 

And given I play /Time a fair deal, and want to be melee anyway, I'd honestly rather use the Fighting pool attacks, as Cross Punch also gives me +recharge on hit, and if I take all three they do quite decent damage.

 

Furthermore, there's another problem with MM primary attacks, beyond their garbage damage. They don't always fit the character concept. If you want Thugs, you MUST use pistols. If you want Mercs, you MUST use an assault rifle. If you want Ninjas, you MUST use a bow. Screw that. I'd rather brawl with my Ninja MM, at least it fits the ninja theme better. Maybe my Mercs MM is a Wizard, he just hired soldiers, doesn't mean he is one. He wants Arcane Bolt, Enflame, TP Foe, Recall Friend, and Teleport, not Burst, Slug, and Grenade, you know?

 

So yeah, I almost never take the primary attack powers. If I want attacks, there are better options in the pools and epic/patrons. And even when I want a bunch of attacks, my concept rarely aligns with the type of attacks in the primary.

[Catgoyle]

I'm likely to use the extra build slot so I can make a "doesn't matter what level I get dropped to, I won't loose much" and a "post-respec optimized" higher level build.

MM is a bunch of compromises with a lot of the powers predetermined, which is compounded with secondary pool powers that are way more useful than another weak-ish attack.  And then throw in must-have pool powers...  I wouldn't mind taking more of the personal attacks because they do fit my theme, but there's no real way to squeeze more than one or two in.

 

On the topic of on-theme: a lot of the time using the VIP/Prestige powers as a filler gives me a facial tic because they don't "fit" a theme at all.