Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates

[MechaMarshmallow]

I have an AR blaster too, and I fully agree that Ignite could use a buff. However, I simply don't see the logic in replacing an aoe power with a single target one that has lower dpa. I fully agree with everyone who says that Ignite is currently bad, but AR is already way too vanilla feeling for another simple single target blast to feel good at T8. At the very least replace it with something fun.

 

For example: What if in addition to the base damage, Incinerator made the target become the centre of a damage aura that would harm surrounding enemies for 50% of the damage dealt to the main target over the duration of the DoT. That'd be more fun than a single target blast, it retains AoE functionality, and would still be usable in a ST attack chain for people who want it for that purpose. Also setting a guy on fire so he burns everyone around him is a neat and easily understood mechanic.

 

I'd be upset to see Ignite go, but not incensed. What I really hope we can avoid is making its replacement dull and uninspired.

Edited April 5, 2023 by MechaMarshmallow

[Koopak]

Just now, ScarySai said:

I'd just read it more like the AV being smart enough to not stand in your obvious deathtrap.

 

As vehemently against the ignite train as I am, I at least understand it to a degree.

 

What I will never understand is people who want to keep beanbag over aim.

I agree to a point, which is why i like them responding to different amounts of afraid. Like the AV is a powerful villian, he/she should be willing to walk through a bit of fire to 'prove a point' But honestly expanding that mechanic to be different per AV to reflect what they value, intimidation vs safety, would be fun, but a wholly different ask.

[Koopak]

3 minutes ago, MechaMarshmallow said:

I have an AR blaster too, and I fully agree that Ignite could use a buff. However, I simply don't see the logic in replacing an aoe power with a single target one that has lower dpa. I fully agree with everyone who says that Ignite is currently bad, but AR is already way too vanilla feeling for another simple single target blast to feel good at T8. At the very least replace it with something fun.

 

For example: What if in addition to the base damage, Incinerator made the target become the centre of a damage aura that would harm surrounding enemies for 50% of the damage dealt to the main target over the duration of the DoT. That'd be more fun than a single target blast, it retains AoE functionality, and would still be usable in a ST attack chain for people who want it for that purpose.

 

I'd be upset to see Ignite go, but not incensed. What I really hope we can avoid is making its replacement dull and uninspired.

And yeah this is my kicker, losing Ignite sucks because its a unique power among blasts and especially in AR. But the fact that its being replaced by a boring as hell ST blast is just dirt in the wound.

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, Koopak said:

And yeah this is my kicker, losing Ignite sucks because its a unique power among blasts and especially in AR. But the fact that its being replaced by a boring as hell ST blast is just dirt in the wound.

And if anyting, increase it's radius.

[Mezmera]

At a quick first glance speaking on Dual Pistols this seems like a net nerf even with the redraw speeding up attacks a smidge.  

 

The redraw cleanup is great for all weapon sets sure but how good was it going to be that it all out nerfs the proc rate of the hold?  Then there's the Piercing Rounds change that sure it's nice to now have that resistance debuff capable on all ammo builds but removing the ability to stack on itself is a half nerf since on some builds that are spec'd to standard ammo made use of this nice resistance debuff along with how great the hold used to detonate procs.  

 

It feels like we've taken a midtier powerset which with some creativity you could do some unique things to put yourself close to the almighty blaze/blazing bolt and removed the viability of building around Suppressive Fire and Piercing Rounds to stay competitive with other assaults.  

[ScarySai]

The problem with the piercing rounds change is it does nothing to make the power worth taking for people who were already rightfully skipping it. It's too slow, and it doesn't even stack -res like it's much stronger cousin - piercing beam, anymore.

 

I like the mez change though, I'm able to use it more rotationally. The lost of duration for fire ammo doesn't bother me much, I already played on +4, the mez value was already questionable there. DP's weakness still remains - it has woefully low single target if we ignore procs.

Edited April 5, 2023 by ScarySai

[PoptartsNinja]

Flamethrower's improvements help to make up for the loss of Ignite. Flamethrower is actually worth taking alongside Buckshot rather than being in something of an either/or situation. I pretty much only ever broke out Ignite to try to burn down EBs and AVs, and Incinerator is a solid replacement for that task. It's also useful for tagging teleporters like Director 11 and the synergy it has with burst makes fitting it into an attack rotation feel really nice.

 

Give the set a try on the test server if you haven't already. It really does feel like night and day when you're actually using it. The Flamethrower changes are especially nice.

Edited April 5, 2023 by PoptartsNinja

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, The Curator said:

Assault Rifle

Slug

• Cast time lowered from 1.67s to 1.4s.

Beanbag

• Power replaced with Aim.

Sniper Rifle (Quick)

• Cast time lowered from 1.67s to 1s.

Ignite

• Replaced with Incinerator. Incinerator does DoT over 5.6 seconds to a single target, for a total of 56.17 dpa (Blaster values).
• If the target is currently under the effect of -defense debuffs, the DoT is extended to 7.1s, for a DPA of 70.82 (Blaster values).
• Can target flying enemies.

Flamethrower

• DoT now is applied over 4.7s, down from 7.1s (same damage).

Full Auto

• Arc increased from 20 to 90 degrees.

Slug and sniper rifle terrific!

 

Beanbag, kinda seems odd to lose that for aim, though almost any build i'd make I'd probably agree that I wouldn't get beanbag and woudln't welcome aim, but doesn't mean that there aren't uses where beanbag helps other people out. Regarding what i said earlier though, i think this helps most combos out, just seems like an odd change.

 

Ignite, BAD, the set with that slug and sniper rifle change is fine on single target now, and ignite as is can be usef for single target when used with the single target immoblize most secondaries have. It being a small aoe gave it a good niche where you can cast on yoruself as kinda a "keep away" power too. The only change this needs would be shorter cast time, but mainly a radius increase to maybe 10ft.

 

Flamethrower, good change, though the bigger issue is still it's cast time even thoguh it was already lowered, still just too long IMO. (and of course the issue of ALL ranged cones that should be 16 targets, not 10)

 

Full auto, terrific!  though with its range, honestly it's a bit too much IMO. I'd actually suggest (again outside of making sure it hits 16 targets if that wasn't already fixed) that if it's going to 90 degrees, its range should be reduced or it's going to hit other mobs you don't want it to (same issue with umbral torrent in dark blast) I think it's optimal cone would be 60feet, 45 degrees, which is about the same i'd say for most ranged cones in the game, esp attack ones, but especfially full auto.

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, The Curator said:

Dark Blast

Abyssal Gaze

• Cooldown lowered from 20s to 11s.
• Damage increased from scale 0.472 to scale 0.707.
• Hold Duration reduced from scale 8 to scale 4.4.

Again, losing a good bit of it's hold is really bad, I'd say leave its damage as is, but lower the recharge some, and lower it's cast time to match the damage needed. Leave the hold duration as is. A mez attack should be a bonus to the set, not compensated to be practically useless.

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Flamethrower, good change, though the bigger issue is still it's cast time even thoguh it was already lowered, still just too long IMO. (and of course the issue of ALL ranged cones that should be 16 targets, not 10)

 

Flamethrower has slightly better DPA and a shorter cast time than steam spray, which I'd still call the best cone power in the game (since it kills faster than FF)

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, The Curator said:

Dual Pistols

Suppressive Fire

• Cast time reduced from 1.67s to 1.5s.
• Recharge reduced from 20s to 8s.
• Damage increased from scale 0.1 to scale 1.64.
• Hold effectiveness reduced.

Piercing Rounds

• Resistance debuff now is applied while using any round type, stacking changed to replace.

Again on the mez duration taking a hit being a bad thing, but DP is so bad on single target damage, in  relation to usually skipping the power anyway, this is VERY needed to help out dual pistol's single target damage.

 

But still, besides that ST issue, the biggest change needed is to actually fix swap ammo. It's quite pathetic. The change itn type isn't even more damage, its only a 30% "may not be resisted" or super tiny DoT on fire, not to mention it m eans you lose the knockdown/back that the powers offer which is considerably just as bad.

 

Any build i've made for dp lately i skip swap ammo so i can keep the knockdown, because the damage change is far too small, the power offers no to hit boost either. It's a big loss compared to just a standard aim for anyting that doesn't really plan to utilize the -damage component. The only time this power actually was worth it, was when it was bugging and letting all 3 damage types be on at the same time equating to a 60% damage boost. As it is, its terrible and needs updated, all forms should offer a constant to hit bonus, and actual damage boost of like 30%.

 

Piercing rounds is a good change, not huge beside getting the -resistance in an ammo type, but again, cause of how bad swap ammo is anyway, i usually skip it due to what i mentioned above.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

 

Flamethrower has slightly better DPA and a shorter cast time than steam spray, which I'd still call the best cone power in the game (since it kills faster than FF)

FF? And dpa wise yeah sure, but with its cast time and the dot duration, it makes a difference. Even with the shorter DOT, still can equate to a lack. I'm not saying i dont like flamethrower, just that it still feels a bit slow to cast. The shorter DOT will help though no doubt.

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, The Curator said:

Seismic Blast

• Timing adjustments in Seismic Stress buildup, players should be able to more quickly notice orange rings and decide what power to use next based on this visual information.

Seismic blast still needs ome fixes. For one Meteor, defiitely needs to be target based and not location based. On other threads i've  mentioned why this is what makes the power so bad, losing damage buffs, esp gaussians proc, enemeis dead before it hits etc.

 

One big thing that needs fixed thoguh is seismic focus. The poewr should GRANT shockwaves, not use them up for a piddly 25% recharge on only your seismic attacks. Making it grant the shockwaves instead of use them up, would go really far for the set.

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

Again on the mez duration taking a hit being a bad thing, but DP is so bad on single target damage, in  relation to usually skipping the power anyway, this is VERY needed to help out dual pistol's single target damage.

 

This nerfs the capable damage output big time.  This does not give you another viable attack in your chain.  At that old recharge time any damage proc you dropped in there had a 90% chance to fire.  Since holds have a ton of damage procs you're losing out on 1 Moderate damage and 3 minor damage boost plus any last proc you want to toss in there to use that good fire rate like a Decimation proc just to lose all of that for a moderate damage.  Big nerf on this attack in your chain.

[High_Beam]

My problem with DP Suppressive Fire change is that the power is supposed to be low damage for the gain of the not terrible but not controller hold.   One DP didnt take it at all because she had a better hold from her secondary (Radiation).  Upping the damage to downgrade the hold renders the power pointless.  But again I am copying them over now as well as my DP Corr and DP Sent for comparison

[ScarySai]

10 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

FF? 

Flamefrower, according to my melting brain.

 

But you get the general idea.

 

I'd encourage some testing of the Dual Pistols stun before commenting on it being a "net loss", for my DP/martial, it's a very tangible single target upgrade, and yes, I procced it, I'm pretty good at building DP chars, lol. Swapped out lockdown for some damage and it's essentially the same thing on a shorter CD.

Edited April 5, 2023 by ScarySai

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, The Curator said:

Psychic Blast

Will Domination (Blaster Only)

• Renamed to Dominate Will
• Recharge lowered from 20s to 4s
• Cast time lowered from 1.1 seconds to 1 second
• Damage lowered from 1.24 scale to 1.0 scale.
• Moved to T1

Will Domination (Defender/Corruptor)

• Recharge lowered from 14s to 10s (Damage unchanged).
• Moved from T6 to T5.

Psionic Lance (Defender/Corruptor)

• Moved from T3 to T6.

Psionic Dart (Blaster Only)

• Renamed to Psionic Darts.
• This power is now a 10 target cone (60', 30 degrees).
• Recharge increased to 12s.
• Damage lowered from 1.0 scale to 0.8321 scale.
• Moved to T4

Telekinetic Blast (Defender/Corruptor)

• Moved from T5 to T3.

Mental Blast (Defender/Corruptor)

• Recharged increased from 4s to 6s.
• Damage increased from scale 1.0 to scale 1.32.

Subdue (Defender/Corruptor)

• Cast time reduced from 1.67s to 1s.
• Recharged lowered from 6s to 4s.
• Damage reduced from scale 1.32 to scale 1.0.

Psychic Scream (Defender/Corruptor/Sentinel)

• Cast time lowered from 2.67s to 1.87s.

Psionic Tornado (Blaster/Defender/Corruptor)

• Cast time lowered from 2.37s to 1.83s. (Applies to Sentinels as well)
• Radius reduced from 20 feet to 15 feet.
• Damage increased from scale 0.89 to scale 1.1.

Scramble Thoughts (All ATs)

• Renamed to Scramble Minds.
• Now a chain.
• Cast time lowered from 3s to 2s.
• Main target will be stunned, additional targets might get hit with a randomized status effect of either Sleep, Immobilize, Placate, Terrorize, or Hold.
• Damage increased from 0.25 scale to 1.0 scale.

And now to the mother lode:

 

Main thing to start, PLEASE do not do this to will domination. That power was key to proccing, especially the CotS heal proc that made a BIG difference for this set. The set was actually fine on single target damage already too (besides sentinels).

 

In relation: For blasters since they lose psy darts for the cone, which this is helpful thank you, but keep will dom as is, and make subdue the new tier 1 with the 1s cast/4s recharge.

 

Also, don't forget to reduce the cast time on psy scream on /mental on blasters too!!!!!!

 

Psy tornado, It'll be good to have more damage and such, though the radius loss kinda hurts, it's overall even enough i guess, but you should also reduce the duration of the DOT to be more up-front, if not one hit as it is like mass levitate.

 

Scramble thoughts is welcome change.

 

Mental blast, honestly it always just felt off due to it's dumb 1.67 cast time, IT should be the 1s cast time in it's tier 1 spot.

[High_Beam]

Cant test now cause transfers arent showing up.  will wait for later to see if they show.

 

[ApatheticWizard]

Played with the Psi Blast (Blaster) changes for a bit as a Psi/Mental(my current main blaster live). Solo +1x8 Radios on various maps, here's my thoughts compared to Live.

Scramble Minds is great, could maybe be a shorter cast time like 1.67s to "feel" the best to use, 2s feels awkward with both of the animations.

Psionic Darts is a strange power to use, especially in my case. It basically entirely replaces Psychic Scream from /Mental, though I kind of figure that's the point since Blaster Psi Blast lost Psychic Scream and it got put into /Mental because of this, but it feels awkward now that Psi Blast effectively lost it's "T3" blast to be this power's original form's replacement and now there's a slight hole for ST on Blaster Psi Blast. Of course 200% global recharge(which is what I was testing with) generally solves this hole but I can see it feeling awkward for non-IO'd out setups.

Dominate Will is ok, but I as stated above I have a few hang-ups about it but the power is functional and works well enough, but it does feel strange that Psi Blast(Blaster) now sort of has a hole in it for harder-hitting ST damage.

Psionic Tornado is just better, feels great, plays great.

Edited April 5, 2023 by ApatheticWizard
I forgot an S

[Astralock]

22 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

This nerfs the capable damage output big time.  This does not give you another viable attack in your chain.  At that old recharge time any damage proc you dropped in there had a 90% chance to fire.  Since holds have a ton of damage procs you're losing out on 1 Moderate damage and 3 minor damage boost plus any last proc you want to toss in there to use that good fire rate like a Decimation proc just to lose all of that for a moderate damage.  Big nerf on this attack in your chain.

 

If turning a power into a standard attack nerfs its damage output "big time," then it sounds like it was doing too much damage procced out.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, Astralock said:

 

If turning a power into a standard attack nerfs its damage output "big time," then it sounds like it was doing too much damage procced out.

Right, a power should be balanced around its own damage first. DAMAGE procs should be a secondary consideration. Other procs are different like the CotS heal proc for will domination, why that should remain as is.

[Vanden]

11 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Mental blast, honestly it always just felt off due to it's dumb 1.67 cast time, IT should be the 1s cast time in it's tier 1 spot.

 

I think this could maybe be worth investigating; if Mental Blast were the t1 and Dominate Will were the t2, it would be better for proccing with a t2 standard 1.67 cast and 8 second recharge than it is as a t1. The longer cast would fit the animation better, too.

[ApatheticWizard]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

 

I think this could maybe be worth investigating; if Mental Blast were the t1 and Dominate Will were the t2, it would be better for proccing with a t2 standard 1.67 cast and 8 second recharge than it is as a t1. The longer cast would fit the animation better, too.

Mental Blast being the t1 and Will Dom returning to being a higher tier blast I think is the better solution as well. As it is right now even on Live I skip Mental Blast for Psionic Dart simply because it is better filler between my other attacks.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Vanden said:

 

I think this could maybe be worth investigating; if Mental Blast were the t1 and Dominate Will were the t2, it would be better for proccing with a t2 standard 1.67 cast and 8 second recharge than it is as a t1. The longer cast would fit the animation better, too.

The mental blast being tier 1 1s/4s is a no Brainerd. But will dom should remain its bigger attack, 10s is fine with proper damage though it will lose some of that proc-ability, but 8 seconds is too harsh when it's still fitting in that 3 attack chain. 12s would be best for its recharge to still fit in the optimal chain.

[Booper]

1 hour ago, DeviousMe said:

Any chance there could be a multi-select between Beanbag/Aim and Ignite/Incinerator for AR, like we have with Arachnos Widows and Soldiers of Arachnos? I'm not sure about our community at large, but I greatly enjoy those powers, and would rather not lose them.

That's an interesting suggestion. Similar to Sentinel's Super Reflexes. I don't think we're interested in expanding on that mechanic, but I'll make sure the idea gets discussed either way.