How do Stalkers work?

[Snarky]

Not even kidding.  Of all the years I have been on CoH/V I have probably played a Stalker in total less than 24 hours.

 

In the "modern" CoH what does the Stalker do?  Like on a Team.  Do you have to wait for Hide W/E to happen then Strike, or in big scrums do you just start acting like a Scrapper?  Why do Stalkers have AoE?  (I am of course considering a Dark Dark. all toggles.  I am a fanatic after all)  Don't toggles just screw up what a Stalker is doing and turn them into a less effective Brute?

[biostem]

Stalkers get a very large bonus to crit chance based upon the number of other teammates.  Hide is almost superfluous, except for opening a fight or sneaking past mobs.  Heck, there's an ATO that can put you into stealth for a few seconds, without needing the power, (IIRC).

[Grimm2]

In my mind, Stalkers and Scrappers are nearly analogous. Stalkers have lower threat modifiers, no taunt auras, great stealth, and lower HP.... and some sets have reduced AOE attacks. ATO procs are transformative for both ATs and their damage potential. From early on Stalkers get the ability to delete a boss with AS from Hide, and AS is always there in the attack rotation with a high crit chance. 

 

I guess I really like the stalker perks. Scrappers are probably easier to use and play in the end, but it's really fun to proc Hidden, or Build Up, and go Heh, heh, heh...

 

Edit: enemy-affecting toggles suppress when stealthed, and especially with the Hide ATO proc, I often open up with a big hitter that's not AS or an AoE as an alpha, and just scrap it out. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Grimm2

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Grimm2 said:

Edit: enemy-affecting toggles suppress when stealthed, and especially with the Hide ATO proc, I often open up with a big hitter that's not AS or an AoE as an alpha, and just scrap it out. 

This is very important.  I was not sure what to do as Dark lol.  thanks

[Elementfury323]

Grimm2 said it pretty good make sure to get the ATOs. The chance to hide usually in Assassin’s Strike and chance to reset build up in an early attack. Chance to reset build up is global so any attack has a chance to reset build up. 
 

The way I play stalkers is targeting high priority targets healers, bosses anything that will trouble the team the most. Usually I use the hardest hitting attack that isn’t AS it should be a crit. Then use your attack chain until you build enough Assassins Focus each stack gives you 33.3% chance for a critical with your Assassins Strike. This should put you back into the hidden state not always though. AoE have a great chance to proc your chance for build up you can have multiple build ups at once. One Gaussians chance for build up in Build Up is usually all you need.

 

Stalkers have more controlled criticals than scrappers and with double build ups a chance to do insane damage. We lose some AoE for this but also get extra defense with hide.

[Snarky]

good advice thx.  just ran a posi 1 and 2.  very nice ST damage.  looking forward to the fear effect in AS stacking with Dark Fear.  Going to be a slog through kill all TF in the lowbies. but i bought p2w 'nades.  Then, i can see at the high level, just a ton of ST where you need it.  

[InvaderStych]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

In the "modern" CoH what does the Stalker do?

 

Truckloads of damage while drawing less attention to themselves than a scrapper or blaster would.

 

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Like on a Team.

 

First (technically second, but paragraph 1 is one word, so you get the idea) Paragraph:

 

 

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Do you have to wait for Hide W/E to happen then Strike, or in big scrums do you just start acting like a Scrapper?

 

Nope. If you are fast (see link above) you can get there just ahead of the scrum and strike from Hidden, but Hide (as others mentioned) and Slow AS aren't really necessary. You sorta act like a Scrapper, but you should be far more focused on hard targets. Stalkers have lower Threat than Scrappers, and on a team the trash mobs will largely ignore you save for when you drop AoEs - even that might not get their attention depending on the team. The high value of gaming Crits with Stalkers is in focusing on either the big-bad or highest-annoyance: insta-jib Surgeons and Sappers before they cause trouble, just before the aggro sponges arrive.

 

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Why do Stalkers have AoE?

 

Because they get a 50% Crit chance from Hidden. Including when Hidden by the Proc.

 

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Don't toggles just screw up what a Stalker is doing and turn them into a less effective Brute?

 

Unfamiliar with /Dark, but armors with a damage aura have that swapped out for Hide when porting to a Stalker, so largely no, no problematic auras. Any other auras, as mentioned above, will suppress notification/effects when hidden.

 

One Exception:

 

Both sides of Melee Hybrid will notify mobs and break Hidden. This is in spite of the fact that only the Radial (+def) side Taunts. Core (+res) does not Taunt, but notifies.

 

 

[Nyghtmaire]

Well covered above. Just want to add that /dark is ridiculously fun on a stalker with Dark Melee. With a high recharge build, it is fairly straightforward to also build for soft capped S/L and M, with capped resistances in at least S/L and Psi. I skip OG but take Cloak of Fear to stack with the terrify effect from Assassin’s Eclipse (slow) and Touch of Fear. Shadow Maul does what it says and hits like a truck. Even proc out Dark Regeneration for a mix of damage (3 dam procs, Theft, 2 Accurate Healing pieces).

 

Alternatively, you can go Soul for Shadow Meld and coast on ~20% defense across the board with a mean-ass snipe. Pop Shadow Meld when jumping in a group and be over-capped while taking care of business. 
 

Are you running invulnerability or dark armor? Or something else?

[Troo]

20 hours ago, Snarky said:

Not even kidding.  Of all the years I have been on CoH/V I have probably played a Stalker in total less than 24 hours.

 

In the "modern" CoH what does the Stalker do?  Like on a Team.  Do you have to wait for Hide W/E to happen then Strike, or in big scrums do you just start acting like a Scrapper?  Why do Stalkers have AoE?  (I am of course considering a Dark Dark. all toggles.  I am a fanatic after all)  Don't toggles just screw up what a Stalker is doing and turn them into a less effective Brute?

 

Troo Stalker Tips

#1 Lean into the single target nature of the Stalker. (yes, there are some nice aoe stalker combos but they arent the rule)

#2 Spike damage.. No point in just nibbling away when we can set targets up for big hits.

#3 Control. As a stalker we can be in near complete control of an encounter. Stalker secondary effects can be very effective and can stack nicely..

 

FYI - When teaming, stalkers aren't very good at holding aggro but instead are able to eliminate troublesome targets very quickly.

 

I like Placate. It is simply one of the most powerful abilities in the game though on steamroll teams it is of no value.

 

 

See the linked guide below for new Stalkers. Sections to check out include: AT Powers inherent to Stalkers & Combat, Tricks

 

[Troo]

A vampire stalker makes complete sense. One could just wade into a group of targets and take whatever they wanted.

 

Momentarily disappearing between targets while being difficult to track. Snatching one victim after another, after another.

 

 

 

I totally abuse the control aspects of stalkers. Stun, Fear, Placate while mashing buttons of doom and mumbling to myself.. die, die.. die.

 

Edited February 12 by Troo

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

A vampire stalker makes complete sense. One could just wade into a group of targets and take whatever they wanted.

 

Monetarily disappearing between targets while being difficult to track. Snatching one victim after another, after another.

 

 

 

I totally abuse the control aspects of stalkers. Stun, Fear, Placate while mashing buttons of doom and mumbling to myself.. die, die.. die.

 

Yes, the time was right to bring my namesake to the correct AT.  So far I am NOT disappointed.  I alt acct farmed to 24.  Then did (in this order) Posi2, Posi 1, Synapse, Tarikoss, Yin, Silver Mantis.  Now at 36 and will be doing the TFs SFs and Trials in as much level order as possible.  I always find this helps me learn a new AT or powerset.  Having run Dark Dark on Brutes and Tanks it is insane to see it obliterate enemies.  The stacking Fear from Touch of Fear, Cloak of Fear and AS is chef's kiss.  

[Clave Dark 5]

I'm probably late to the game here, but...

 

Stalkers were my fave back on Live (and my current-sort-of-Main).  Like how Doms had a set pattern of play ("Control, then attack while they're helpless"), Stalkers did too, "go invisible, drop the biggest target, then punch away at anyone else (and Placate might save your skin)."

 

The crits from Hide are nothing to sneeze at, and that ATO just gives you more, so they're wonderful. 

 

These days of course, they play a bit differently, so they're sort of strange sideways Scrappers.  I tend to open up with an AoE (if I have one) to crit it across everyone I can at first, and THEN slam the biggest target with AS... to possibly go back into Hide for another AoE crit.  (Then again, my Main is an AoE king amongst Stalkers because he uses so many Combat TP powers to open things up; it's a whole thing.)

[InvaderStych]

36 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

... because he uses so many Combat TP powers to open things up; it's a whole thing.)

 

[twozerofoxtrot]

Just an aside here, and I'm not a main Stalker player by any means but... When I play one on teams I enjoy being the backline bodyguard.

 

A few posters have mentioned being ahead of the main alpha but in my experience that's almost a wasted effort, versus making sure that there's not something sticking onto the group's Controller or something as all the other DPS peel away to race and see whose AOE attack unzips the most minions. 

 

The bosses will be there, ready to get two-shot down afterwards. No worries about that. But in the same vein you can click-delete the ankle biters the rest of your team won't think about until yout Kin is dead.

 

It's just how I mentally differentiate Stalkers from the other three melees.

[kito]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Just an aside here, and I'm not a main Stalker player by any means but... When I play one on teams I enjoy being the backline bodyguard.

 

A few posters have mentioned being ahead of the main alpha but in my experience that's almost a wasted effort, versus making sure that there's not something sticking onto the group's Controller or something as all the other DPS peel away to race and see whose AOE attack unzips the most minions. 

 

The bosses will be there, ready to get two-shot down afterwards. No worries about that. But in the same vein you can click-delete the ankle biters the rest of your team won't think about until yout Kin is dead.

 

It's just how I mentally differentiate Stalkers from the other three melees.

 

 

That's kind of funny that is how I play scrappers. It's easy for them to deal with any ambush that might hit the back line and they don't need to be in the middle of every combat like a brute. 

 

Stalkers I always played as the boss killer. They don't strike first but they strike hard. They can also pick off annoying things like surgeons in a itf while the tank and brute hold agro and the blasters aoe the pit. 

[kito]

Snarky:  

 

Good thing about stalkers is you can really focus on who is important to kill and beat even +3/0 missions to level as unlike other AT you can/will skip over alot of the mobs and just 1-2 shot a boss. I tend to do more content as a stalker as I just level slower killing alot less mobs and not have the aoe and hp to really fight them all effectively anyway.  

 

It's just a pitty I don't like the AT that much. I should try it again next year. 

[InvaderStych]

10 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

A few posters have mentioned being ahead of the main alpha but in my experience that's almost a wasted effort, versus making sure that there's not something sticking onto the group's Controller or something as all the other DPS peel away to race and see whose AOE attack unzips the most minions. 

 

The bosses will be there, ready to get two-shot down afterwards. No worries about that. But in the same vein you can click-delete the ankle biters the rest of your team won't think about until yout Kin is dead.

 

Pro Stalker Tactics right there, gang.

 

I know I chatter on and on to the point of incoherence about Combat Teleport, but for a Stalker (and Scrapper), the ability to select a team-mate and instantly port to their location makes playing "Save The Squishy" tremendously easy. Bonus points for keeping a targeted bind for both CT and Teleport which extends the range at which this can be accomplished. You don't even need LoS, just a path that is within range. See that Kin's health bar dropping? *BAMF* and erase whatever is causing the problem.

 

Tele-pulling is also a thing. Got a scrum going in the bottom of one of those office-pit rooms? Port to a mezzanine, drop an AoE, port back to the pit and the mobs will follow to their doom. Bonus points if the team has patches/pseudo-pets going down there.

[ZemX]

11 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

These days of course, they play a bit differently, so they're sort of strange sideways Scrappers.  I tend to open up with an AoE (if I have one) to crit it across everyone I can at first, and THEN slam the biggest target with AS... to possibly go back into Hide for another AoE crit. 

 

They were always just stealthy scrappers.  A lot of people didn't get this back in the day and held onto the flawed notion they should hit and run to return to Hide.  That never worked out mathematically even on day 1 of CoV.  

 

I play Stalkers now pretty much the same way I played them from the beginning.  They are just better at it now.  The one difference you mention is probably the only one since originally you'd be more interested in using AS from Hide as an opened because you couldn't use it any other time except after Placate.  And funnily enough, it never really worked out as a damage improvement to use Placate+AS in a fight vs. just scrapping ST attacks.   It makes even less sense today, even with improvements to Placate, since Stalkers have much better in-combat ST dps with quick AS than before.  Placate is just a big zero damage hole in any attack chain that is never paid back in the end.  Use it as a control power... not a damage enhancer.

[Clave Dark 5]

34 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

They were always just stealthy scrappers.  A lot of people didn't get this back in the day and held onto the flawed notion they should hit and run to return to Hide.  That never worked out mathematically even on day 1 of CoV.  

 

I play Stalkers now pretty much the same way I played them from the beginning.  They are just better at it now.  The one difference you mention is probably the only one since originally you'd be more interested in using AS from Hide as an opened because you couldn't use it any other time except after Placate.  And funnily enough, it never really worked out as a damage improvement to use Placate+AS in a fight vs. just scrapping ST attacks.   It makes even less sense today, even with improvements to Placate, since Stalkers have much better in-combat ST dps with quick AS than before.  Placate is just a big zero damage hole in any attack chain that is never paid back in the end.  Use it as a control power... not a damage enhancer.

Pretty sure though that's how they were intended to be played at first, that one big POW of an AS from Hide is very satisfying!  I also found it a fair amount of fun to take things slow that way when soloing around; I'm rarely concerned with the "mathematical" aspects of planning out the game, that's just not fun for me.

[Clave Dark 5]

56 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

See that Kin's health bar dropping? *BAMF* and erase whatever is causing the problem.

And get a good chuckle out of a Knockdown Proc in your TP power making them all flop onto their backs soon as you show up.  There's a reason my BAMPF melee stalker is my sort-of Main.

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Pretty sure though that's how they were intended to be played at first, that one big POW of an AS from Hide is very satisfying!  I also found it a fair amount of fun to take things slow that way when soloing around; I'm rarely concerned with the "mathematical" aspects of planning out the game, that's just not fun for me.

 

I am mostly talking about teaming since that is what Snarky asked.  Soloing, Stalkers definitely had some different options with built in Hide and Placate to choose only certain fights.  That sort of thing.  But any idea they should hit and run on teams was just weird to me at the time.  I remember debating that with people who insisted this was the design of the AT despite it really not performing well at all.   I'm not even talking about super optimized min/maxing here when I say "mathematics".  It just didn't make even a little sense.  It was that bad.  

[Captain Fabulous]

I have a Dark/Dark Stalker, Count Spectacula, and he's pretty fun to play (tho he burns thru end like a whore thru cheap perfume). I have a number of Stalkers, and yeah not terribly different than Scrappers at this point. The stealth aspect adds a nice twist on typical the Scrapper playstyle.

[Clave Dark 5]

10 hours ago, ZemX said:

 people who insisted this was the design of the AT despite it really not performing well at all.

First part, yes, that's me and I'm still pretty sure that is what they were designed for.  I never said it mathematically made sense,.  😃 I said it was fun. 

 

I was recently on a team with a second stalker and we were both having fun playing scout just in front of the tsunami of the rest of the team, dropping the bigger targets just as they rolled up.  Fun!

[kito]

I always saw stalkers as the red side blaster but instead of aoe they where super high single target dmg. On a team you can hit and run but low levels I would say there about as close to a blaster as you can get redside.

[biostem]

36 minutes ago, kito said:

I always saw stalkers as the red side blaster but instead of aoe they where super high single target dmg. On a team you can hit and run but low levels I would say there about as close to a blaster as you can get redside.

Honestly, I saw it more as the original villain ATs, (as they functioned when CoV launched), skewing their focus more toward damage and solo play, vs the hero ATs, with stalkers being more specialized scrappers, and brutes being berserker tanks.