Focused Feedback: Various Power Updates

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, Player-1 said:

This bug went well beyond powerful synergy between a primary and secondary once we dived into it. Again, this allowed lightning to be cast off of all pets you had summoned which unfortunately varies so wildly depending on the character that we could not rely on the feedback from before this fix due to the difference in pets between characters.

 

With the current changes, we are doing much more thorough testing to get this to a place that is both effective and fun.

 

Since you're re-tuning cell anyway, now's the time to explore a 'spammy' version of the power.

 

Retune numbers all you want, it's much more fun than what we have now and on live.

 

FWIW, I think C5 is fine as-is, Cell is the problem.

 

Edited February 19 by ScarySai

[FupDup]

To reiterate what others are saying, they're not asking for the Storm Cell bug to be kept. The bug can stay gone. 

 

What they're asking for is the baseline, default stats of SC to be throwing out more lightning procs without the buggy/broken interaction between other various pets that the player might have summoned. There shouldn't be any reason that it has to be one extreme or the other here (those extremes being the "slow" current feel and the very broken bugged version). 

Edited February 19 by FupDup

[Videra]

I want to, again, echo Sai and the others. If Cell is being re-tuned, please explore a more spammy version of the power. You can lower the numbers to what you think are acceptable, obviously, but it really is the weakest link in the set. C5 is fine, Cell feeling very lame because it doesn't visually do much in the time you have it active is the issue. The feedback of the animation and damage numbers feels good to see.

[Sovera]

So, what's being asked is something like, procs do half damage that they currently do, but instead of happening every 2 seconds they happen every 1 second? Keep the damage where it is at but make it look even flashier?

[ScarySai]

12 minutes ago, Sovera said:

So, what's being asked is something like, procs do half damage that they currently do, but instead of happening every 2 seconds they happen every 1 second? Keep the damage where it is at but make it look even flashier?

 

I'd argue cell's grossly undertuned, but if they disagree, then I'd settle for more frequency because it would at least feel like an active contributor.

 

As it stands, you could skip cell on most characters and it would be a minor difference at best in terms of clear speed.

Edited February 19 by ScarySai

[Sovera]

12 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

I'd argue cell's grossly undertuned, but if they disagree, then I'd settle for more frequency because it would at least feel like an active contributor.

 

As it stands, you could skip cell on most characters and it would be a minor difference at best in terms of clear speed.

 

Don't quote me but i think someone tested that and Cell contributed a chunk of damage. If you do quote me I'll have to see if I can find it, so plz no.

[ScarySai]

26 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Don't quote me but i think someone tested that and Cell contributed a chunk of damage. If you do quote me I'll have to see if I can find it, so plz no.

GB had a chart that doesn't hold up to scrutiny, that's it.

 

And it would hardly hold up now even if it wasn't a clumsy sheet, since they're changing the cell behavior entirely anyway.

Edited February 19 by ScarySai

[AmrasNotHere]

21 minutes ago, Player-1 said:

This bug went well beyond powerful synergy between a primary and secondary once we dived into it. Again, this allowed lightning to be cast off of all pets you had summoned which unfortunately varies so wildly depending on the character that we could not rely on the feedback from before this fix due to the difference in pets between characters.

 

With the current changes, we are doing much more thorough testing to get this to a place that is both effective and fun.

 

Once again I will do my best to get the point across in hopes that it reaches all parties.

 

P1, your efforts are appreciated and I think with the feedback being given it highlights that the set will start going in the right direction once storm cell is in a good place. Once storm cell functions well (which I hope is a goal since it is a key piece to the blast set) the more minor areas can be tweaked. If you could give us an idea of where the testing with this power is going to go in the next few builds it might give us a better understanding of what to expect.

 

I do however think it's minoot to look at other things in the set that actually function (such as chain lightning) somewhat decent until that part is worked out. Everything in the set revolves around storm cell after all.

 

I'm not asking for yall to revert it back to its bugged state. I'm suggesting that you consider making it act similarly in a way that is still fun, fair, and interesting. Instead of increasing its interval, maybe starting with a reduced interval would have encouraged a more positive response to the acknowledgement of the bug and then work towards a fair and balanced interval. I'm all for effectiveness and fun. I don't want yall to feel like you're being rushed to launch this page. Addressing the issue that is Storm Cell will make it so the other powers in the set can get the testing attention they all deserve.

 

TLDR in simplest terms:

More Storm Cell orange numbers good, more visual lightning strikes pretty. Me then thinks power cooler now and worth set up time. Maybe storm no longer feel bad. Maybe now can focus on other powers of set with bad smear gone.

[AmrasNotHere]

2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

I'd argue cell's grossly undertuned, but if they disagree, then I'd settle for more frequency because it would at least feel like an active contributor.

 

As it stands, you could skip cell on most characters and it would be a minor difference at best in terms of clear speed.

 

Honestly in its current state, Storm cell kinda slows down the flow of combat *shrug*

[nExipnos]

15 hours ago, AmrasNotHere said:

 

Honestly in its current state, Storm cell kinda slows down the flow of combat *shrug*

 

I tested a Storm Blast character and definitely found it to be a slog. I spent the majority of my testing faceplanted because of how slow and...just off...the whole thing felt. I was expecting Storm Cell to be a significant change to the powers or at the very least amp them up. I've placed that character on the backburner now and most likely won't be looking at Storm Blast anytime soon again.

 

Edit for clarification: This was a level 50 with full enhancement sets. Sentinel. I originally thought it might have been my secondary powerset, but I don't believe that was the issue.

Edited February 19 by nExipnos

[WindDemon21]

17 hours ago, AmrasNotHere said:

 

Honestly in its current state, Storm cell kinda slows down the flow of combat *shrug*

It does vastly. It's one reason i often see "storm" in the name of someone on LFG and i avoid that by how much it keeps mobs TOO spread out tbh versus the damage it puts out. Like I said, storm has a LOT of drawbacks with its powers and the set as a whole, so it should balance around that which it's not currently.

 

So many posts of "I liked it when cell was more spammy" just going way way back to my original statement of making all powers proc cell 100%, change intensify to a long duration perma-able to hit buff like 4m rech/2m duration like rage but without the damage boost component to compensate with no crash so that it'd transfer to cell/c5, lower chain to 10-12 end/rech, and then tune cell from there.

[stryve]

I've been playing around with comparative testing with my Storm/SR Sentinel off and on since build one, just to get a feel for the proposed changes.  Per Player-1 Sentinels were not affected by the Storm Cell bug, so that has not colored my experiences.  The toon is level 50, with full IO sets and Tier 4 Incarnates for everything but Judgement.

 

For context, I actually enjoy Storm Blast as it stands on Live, in spite of it's shortcomings.  I realized early on just how much the set incentivizes using primarily it's own powers to increase the rate of Storm Cell and Cat 5 procs, so I went Sentinel with a non-clicky armor (in addition to just plain liking Sentinels in general and SR in particular).  Things tend to scatter under Cat 5, , but the armor lets me dive into the middle of groups to keep their attention, and Sentinel Ancillary Pools have a good selection of AoE Immobilize powers to mitigate spread (I went with Chain Fences for theme, and also the fast animation).  Finally, Storm Cell is slow and has unreliable target selection so I built for recharge to be able to recast it at need (this also lets me keep Cat 5 up almost constantly, and use Intensify often).  

 

Most of my comparative testing has been Peregrine Radios for equivalent groups, so Arachnos and Carnies.  However, for a more controlled comparison I ran the first few missions in Levantera's "Join The Vanguard" arc at +4x8 this morning.  I have found that the proposed changes are an improvement over Live in most every metric, with combat feeling smoother and groups being cleared more quickly.  However, RC3 is a significant step back from previous builds.  The Storm Cell strike lockout increasing from 1 to 2 seconds, and Cat 5 strike lockout increasing from 5 to 6 seconds, is very noticeable.  Especially when a group starts getting down to just the surviving hard targets.  The normalization of damage between Storm Cell procs may also have an effect here:  it's a minor buff for the Spread proc, but a minor decrease for Split and a major reduction for Focused.  Additionally, the increased odds for additional targets as a fight goes on is a little hard to parse out what is actually happening.  How quickly do the odds increase?  Do the odds reset when Storm Cell is recast?  At least with the damage and lockout normalized between procs it won't matter if you have fewer than 4 targets, since it doesn't matter which hits them.

 

As an anecdote, last week (RC1) I was running Carnie Radio missions on Live then comparing to Beta.  At the time, it felt noticeably smoother and faster on Beta than Live, which was satisfying.  Later I realized I had Notoriety set to +3x8 on Live, but +4x8 on Beta.  After RC3 came out I tried again, and felt about the same or maybe a bit less effective on Beta compared to Live, but that time both were set to +3x8.

 

The last thing I wanted to discuss is Chain Lightning.  I'm not the best at picking individual effects out of the scrum, especially when things get as busy as Storm Blast does at high levels, so I don't often notice how well it's performing.  There's lot less going on at low levels, so it was easier to see what was happening during the Posi 1 and 2 I ran on Live  with some friends yesterday.  I definitely noticed missing the first target several times, which does feel pretty bad.  On the other hand, I also noticed several instances of the chain spreading through an entire group stung out along a passage, which was pretty amazing.  A really well placed ranged cone might have been able to pull something similar off but not easily, and cones have a lower target cap anyway.  That said, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have happened at all with a 10ft jump radius; every time I saw it happen there were multiple gaps that would've been too wide.  In summary the increased Accuracy is great to help prevent disheartening misses, and the reduced Recharge makes attack chains a little smoother, but the decreased Jump Distance is going to hurt a lot in anything but a tightly packed group (I'm not familiar enough with chain mechanics to comment on decay, delay, and fork changes).  

[csr]

Based upon some testing with a L33 Storm/Storm Corr and L38 Storm/Tac Blaster I'd say the set hasn't been buffed much at all between Live and RC3.  Any improvements seem to be small enough that they are mostly - or wholly - offset by Storm Cell now aggro'ing the target spawn when cast.

[Player-1]

38 minutes ago, csr said:

Based upon some testing with a L33 Storm/Storm Corr and L38 Storm/Tac Blaster I'd say the set hasn't been buffed much at all between Live and RC3.  Any improvements seem to be small enough that they are mostly - or wholly - offset by Storm Cell now aggro'ing the target spawn when cast.

 

Storm Cell casting lightning on itself is fixed internally and will be in the next patch.