Trying to wrap my head around how Praetoria works...

[BlakeTheDrake]

I spent a lot of time in this game, back in the day - but I quit a while before Going Rogue released, so all the 'Gold Side' content is completely new to me. Hence, I of course decided to start out as a Praetorian! But, the whole Loyalist/Resistance/Power/Responsibility/Warder/Crusader thing is a bit hard to get straight. I found out the hard way that, with Double XP on, I have to manually stop my leveling at several points to experience ANY of the four main 'storylines' fully, nevermind jumping between several of them - fortunately, though, I found a nifty guide in the Guides-forum to help with that...

 

I'm still a bit unclear, however, on the distinction between actually SWITCHING SIDES, using the 'loyalty' events at the end of each segment of each story-arc, and just doing content as a deep-cover agent for the OPPOSITE side, reporting in to your handler about developments and sticking with them in the end-of-arc decisions. Like... there's four badges for finishing the four full arcs, right? Suppose I do all the missions, all the way throughout the three zones, but I do them all as a devoted member of the Resistance, reporting in at every opportunity, and always making the 'Resistance' choice at the end of each arc. Can you actually do that, or do you wind up unable to continue some of the Loyalist storylines because you haven't 'proven yourself' to them? And if you CAN finish them all like that, do you still get the Badges?

 

I was... kind of a huge Badge-wh... hunter, back in the day. Figure I might as well pick up where I left off, especially with Going Rogue and Ouroboros opening up so many new Badge-hunting opportunities! 😛

[Grouchybeast]

There's a badge for making a Loyalist choice in a Morality Mission at least once (Loyalist), and a different badge for making a Resistance choice in a Morality Mission at least once (Resistance Member).  So you'd have to choose Loyalist at the end of at least one arc to get all the Praetorian badges.

 

That said, you can go back and run any of the Praetorian arcs as a Flashback, so there's nothing stopping you from eventually getting all the badges even if you don't manage a perfectly timed run through Praetoria itself.

[Darmian]

It's possible with careful observation and strictly following a guide, to do all of them.  However, you were never meant to. The journey is what it is based on the choices you make at the time. Everything else is for Ouro flashbacks, although the undercover Loyalty thing is hell to pull off in those. It's possible in some of them by reporting in person to Marchand or Scott, but not all the time. Calling in won't work.  

 

After that you'll be pressured at the end of the Neutropolis arcs to go to Paragon or the Rogue Isles.  You DON'T have to (yet). You can go to First Ward via Imperial Underground and continue doing Praetoria related missions, and on into Night Ward.

 

(If you want a set of missions that slot in between Neutropolis and First Ward check out the Praetorian arcs in my AEs below.)

 

And as a Goldsider you will need a base with an Ouro crystal to do Flashbacks since prior to heading to Paragon Goldsiders can't go to Ouroborous.

 

I know this is all possible. My avatar there is my Goldside Main, a level 50 that's STILL Gold.

Edited January 15 by Darmian

[BlakeTheDrake]

36 minutes ago, Darmian said:

It's possible with careful observation and strictly following a guide, to do all of them.  However, you were never meant to. The journey is what it is based on the choices you make at the time. Everything else is for Ouro flashbacks, although the undercover Loyalty thing is hell to pull off in those. It's possible in some of them by reporting in person to Marchand or Scott, but not all the time. Calling in won't work. 

 

(...)

 

And as a Goldsider you will need a base with an Ouro crystal to do Flashbacks since prior to heading to Paragon Goldsiders can't go to Ouroborous.

 

Thanks for the hint about Ouro crystals in bases! I was kinda' lost as to how I could access that from Praetoria, until much, much later.

 

More to the point, what I really wanna know is... DO I need to strictly follow the guide? If I just switch back and forth between Loyalist and Resistance ONCE, to get the relevant Badge - as Grouchybeast mentioned above - but otherwise stick with just one side while running the other as an 'undercover agent'... (using, of course, XP Disable to avoid outleveling stuff) - would that still work? Even knowing that it's possible to get it via flashbacks, I still wanna do it properly, in one go, with at least one character...

[Darmian]

31 minutes ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

 

Thanks for the hint about Ouro crystals in bases! I was kinda' lost as to how I could access that from Praetoria, until much, much later.

 

More to the point, what I really wanna know is... DO I need to strictly follow the guide? If I just switch back and forth between Loyalist and Resistance ONCE, to get the relevant Badge - as Grouchybeast mentioned above - but otherwise stick with just one side while running the other as an 'undercover agent'... (using, of course, XP Disable to avoid outleveling stuff) - would that still work? Even knowing that it's possible to get it via flashbacks, I still wanna do it properly, in one go, with at least one character...

It's possible.  Tricky but possible. Follow the guide (somewhere on here!) and turn off XP at certain points. Don't immediately follow up on Marchand or Scott's missions because you may get a plot hole where it conflicts. There's a few missions where if you take a particular course of action and are attempting to do everything then a contact/person you need to speak to in a different mission is simply not there!  But you can get the majority of it done without the guide.  You really can, you just can't get ALL of it because you're not meant to from a story POV.

 

I had to get a GM to complete a single mission for me at one point in my flashbacks because the contact was gone.  It happens.

Edited January 15 by Darmian

[Snarky]

Every Gold arc is in ouro.  I have run a completionist run doing all red/blue/gold starting blue, stopping exp and side switching, and doing ouro for gold.  

[BlakeTheDrake]

Good to know... but as Darmian said, running them in Ouro means you can't really do that whole 'Deep-Cover Agent' roleplay-angle, which I honestly find really cool. I'm a sucker for anything involving triple agents and lots of backstabbing. Besides, some of the missions actually play out a bit differently if you're playing them as 'undercover' and called the deets in to the faction you're ACTUALLY loyal to (for now!) I'd miss that, just relying on Ouroboros.

Edited January 15 by BlakeTheDrake

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

Good to know... but as Darmian said, running them in Ouro means you can't really do that whole 'Deep-Cover Agent' roleplay-angle, which I honestly find really cool. I'm a sucker for anything involving triple agents and lots of backstabbing.

Mostly you can't, but when doing them through Ouro when the option is presented to report in to your handler, it's worth trying to go see them in person, either in the Underground or the Loyalist Lounge, because SOMETIMES that works!  Although if you "qualify" as a Resistance member and then later want to Ouro the Loyalist missions, you won't be able to enter the Loyalist Lounge at all, and vice versa.

 

Worth keeping in mind though.

[Icono04]

1 hour ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

More to the point, what I really wanna know is... DO I need to strictly follow the guide? If I just switch back and forth between Loyalist and Resistance ONCE, to get the relevant Badge - as Grouchybeast mentioned above - but otherwise stick with just one side while running the other as an 'undercover agent'... (using, of course, XP Disable to avoid outleveling stuff) - would that still work? Even knowing that it's possible to get it via flashbacks, I still wanna do it properly, in one go, with at least one character...

There is a badge for switching from Loyalist to Resistance or vice-versa once and another badge for doing it 5 times. So if you want both badges, you will have to do it 5 times. If that's still not enough for you, you can make a policy of side-switching every time you get the chance to do so, but that is only for personal satisfaction, not for a separate badge.

 

 

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

However, you were never meant to. The journey is what it is based on the choices you make at the time

I have done the switch-sides-EVERY-time thing on a few chars, but these days I agree very much with @Darmian's above statement. I have found that I enjoy it more when each character takes a clear path with his/her own moral choices. This is a matter of personal preference, of course, so I am by no means condeming anyone who takes the more completionist approach.

 

If you do want to swithch back and forth between Resistance and Loyalist, there is a very detailed guide to doing that in the Guides section of the forum. Well, there might be several. One is by Redlynne, the other is by Apparition but I can't seem to find it right now.

 

...just remember that Loyalists are the shining beacons who uphold the glory of the Cole way, whereas Resistance are society-destroying scum. So every time you switch to Resistance, you must perform an act of penance to restore your moral balance. Just sayin'. 

All hail Emperor Cole!

[Darmian]

At some point I'll have my final Gold AE trilogy done.  I've done one for Resistance Warden and one for Resistance Crusader, and one for Loyalist Power.  Only Loyalist Responsibility still to go.  As that was/is my favourite throughline I'm taking a lot longer because I really want to write the best story I can. These are all 20- 25 by the way.

 

 

[Icono04]

5 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I really want to write the best  most ambush-filled story I can.

Fixed it for you.  😉

 

 

@BlakeTheDrake  Here is the link to Apparition's side-switching guide: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Apparition's_Complete_Guide_to_Praetoria

And Redlynne's guide is here: 

 

 

[Darmian]

3 minutes ago, Icono04 said:

Fixed it for you.  😉

ROFL.

 

Ah, not quite! But if there aren't any ambushes in a Gold side mission then you haven't played a Gold side mission!

[Oubliette_Red]

Something I use on all of my Goldsiders /macro_image "DayJob_XPBoost" "XP Toggle" "option_toggle noxp"  this way I have a toggle button on my toolbar for turning XP on/off.

 

As far as running content, I haven't done the guide yet but rather going full extreme Loyalist on one character, full batsh!t Resistance on another, then I'll do infiltration on two others for the stories. Maybe then I'll think about a guide run.

 

[Darmian]

3 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

Thanks for the hint about Ouro crystals in bases! I was kinda' lost as to how I could access that from Praetoria, until much, much later.

 

Use the search bar when editing your base. Look for Pillar and you'll get three or four options. The one you want is clearly visible.  Saves trying to scroll through everything to find it.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

Good to know... but as Darmian said, running them in Ouro means you can't really do that whole 'Deep-Cover Agent' roleplay-angle, which I honestly find really cool. I'm a sucker for anything involving triple agents and lots of backstabbing. Besides, some of the missions actually play out a bit differently if you're playing them as 'undercover' and called the deets in to the faction you're ACTUALLY loyal to (for now!) I'd miss that, just relying on Ouroboros.

oh, to immerse you need to start in the tutorial, and get ready to slow down and read lots of dialogue.  in between unending waves of techno zombies

 

you should plan it out in advance, when to side switch when to STOP experience, etc

Edited January 15 by Snarky

[Falling Stargazer]

5 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

Good to know... but as Darmian said, running them in Ouro means you can't really do that whole 'Deep-Cover Agent' roleplay-angle, which I honestly find really cool. I'm a sucker for anything involving triple agents and lots of backstabbing. Besides, some of the missions actually play out a bit differently if you're playing them as 'undercover' and called the deets in to the faction you're ACTUALLY loyal to (for now!) I'd miss that, just relying on Ouroboros.

 

This is absolutely the best headspace to enjoy Praetoria's content! I'm glad that things are available for any character in Ouro, but the actual flow of missions is really good about occasionally prompting you with a "Hey, just so you know, just because we only put these two dialog options here on the screen... that doesn't have to be what your character -really thinks-. Glory to Praetoria... unless..?"

 

The game engine can't necessarily express all your ideas into the game world, but the devs were rigorous about highlighting that gaps exist for your benefit first and foremost.

[BlakeTheDrake]

So... I've been pushing on with the storylines (slowly) and by experimentation answered the question that, I guess, didn't really come across in my original post... you actually DO have to repeatedly change sides, since outside of Nova Praetoria, contacts won't even talk to you unless you are (or APPEAR to be) on the 'right side'. Fair enough.

 

But, I've got a new question - a very specific one, related to the final stage of the whole affair, Neutropolis. Things get... COMPLICATED there, for those who are ultimately loyal to the Resistance, what with Calvin Scott being A) The one who introduces you to the local Resistance contacts, starting the relevant storylines, B) The one you call to pass information to while working deep-cover within the Loyalists and C) The final contact of the Crusader Resistance Subfaction.

 

So, my question is twofold: Firstly, exactly what do you have to do to avoid 'short-circuiting' the Crusader storyline? Is it just a matter of not taking any non-Introduction missions from him, or do you need to be more careful than that? Secondly, if you START with the final Crusader story-arc, then betray them to the Loyalists at the end, then do Responsibility (staying Loyal) and Power (switching to Resistance) before finishing as a Warden and reaffirming your dedicating to the Resistance with your final choice - basically RPing as a dedicated Warden - will you still be able to call in your activities within the Loyalists during those two arcs in the middle? I guess what I'm asking is whether anything might... HAPPEN to the final Crusader-arc Contact that'd prevent him from picking up the phone... >_>;

[ZemX]

8 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

you actually DO have to repeatedly change sides, since outside of Nova Praetoria, contacts won't even talk to you unless you are (or APPEAR to be) on the 'right side'.

 

You only "have to" do this if you are attempting some sort of wonky "do everything" kind of path through the story arcs.  This is possible, but wasn't really intended.  I'd say if this is what you are gunning for, the best advice is just to follow that thread that was linked earlier about side-switching.  It gives the exact path to follow and avoids a few lock-outs that can occur.

 

The Crusader storyline, I recall, is particularly messy towards the end because there's at least one instance where an actual mission contact can be killed, preventing another mission involving that contact from being completed.  The side-switching thread mentions that and steers you around it in the proper order.

 

But the way Praetoria seems to have been designed, I'd say the intent was first you pick a "true" side during the tutorial.  Then you have choices:

1. Just run all the missions on that true side.  You have access to everything.

2. Also optionally run some light undercover for opposite side contacts you have access to.  i.e. Won't be everyone.

3. Switch sides and run deep undercover, with access to all enemy contacts but at the cost of some of your own (since even they don't know you're undercover and don't trust you now).

4. Switch sides "for real" and betray your original side.  Sadly, however, you cannot become an undercover agent for your new side.  Nobody trusts you enough anymore for that.

 

Nothing wrong if you do want to "do everything".  Just saying this looks like how it was intended to work, so it makes sense in that context only really.  If you do want to do everything, seriously, just follow that thread.  It's complicated and there are more than a few pitfalls to avoid.

[BlakeTheDrake]

I guess it's too much to ask that I can 'do everything' AND maintain some kind of role-playing storyline throughout... yeah, I guess I'll just follow the guide, then. Can't be helped.

 

Gotta say, though, if the original devs didn't want us to try and do all the mission-arcs in each area... they shouldn't have created Badges that are awarded for doing all the mission-arcs in each area. 😛

[Mister Mass]

1 hour ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

I guess it's too much to ask that I can 'do everything' AND maintain some kind of role-playing storyline throughout... yeah, I guess I'll just follow the guide, then. Can't be helped.

 

Gotta say, though, if the original devs didn't want us to try and do all the mission-arcs in each area... they shouldn't have created Badges that are awarded for doing all the mission-arcs in each area. 😛

Well, I am sure that original Devs would have responded "that is why we have Ouroboros". 😉  It is worth noting that both the newer low-level blueside & reside content had contacts which would lock you out from doing the story arc from another contact in the same level range/zone, but that they added badges for doing all of the story arcs in that level range/zone - so the only way to earn the badge was to Ouro the excluded contact.  So it shouldn't be surprising that the Devs were expecting that this would be the approach goldside - especially considering how few of the playerbase is willing to shut off XP & level progression just in order to experience more low level content.

 

That said, as someone who has run 4 separate characters that started goldside & was able (more-or-less) to complete all of the contacts (& undercover work) on all of them, it can be done - & was, for me, a fun approach.  On each character I tried to follow a different pathway through the contact trees, so each run was a bit unique.  For example, one of my Praetorians reinforced all of the "moderate" (Warden & Responsibility) factions' alignment missions, while betraying all of the "extreme" (Crusader & Power) factions' alignment missions.  Another Praetorian did the exact opposite.  It was very helpful that the existing guides pointed out the potential roadblocks, so that I could plan the pathways in advance. 

 

But occasionally, I mucked something up, either by not planning correctly - or worse, by not actually following the plan. 🙄  In those cases, Ouroboros later filled in the gaps.  But Ouro just isn't as fulfilling to me as running the arcs as a starting Praetorian.  Right now I am running the Praetorian arcs via Ouro on a non-Praetorian, & I miss part of the feeling that I am navigating a complex world where betrayal is a way of life.

Edited January 16 by Mister Mass