Prestige for Super Groups Again

[PeregrineFalcon]

If I'd been fixing bases during the snap I wouldn't have erased Prestige, I'd have made it so that you earn Prestige for the SG you're in regardless of whether you're in SG mode or not. Earning Prestige wouldn't affect XP or Inf in any way.

 

The Prestige earned would be like one tenth of your XP earned (or something, I'm just guessing at numbers) and base items would still cost Prestige, but it'd be much lower costs than on the retail servers. So by the time you got a single character to 50 you'd be able to afford most of the utility items. A second 50 would be more than enough to afford pretty much everything. After that Prestige would keep going up, without limit, and just serve as a way to measure SG activity.

 

It's probably far too late at this point to implement this kind of system, and I suspect that most people would be against it even if it were implemented in a way that it wouldn't affect your current base.

[Frozen Burn]

I get the reasoning behind this request.  I love more badges and would want more perks for my bases as well.  But No.... just, no.  The Prestige system was always bad, flawed, and terrible. 

 

I hated having to cut off my 50% of my Inf earnings just to get Prestige.  I understand the reasoning behind it - you gotta give to get.  But I'm not a farmer; I don't make masses of Inf like many do; I play and spend as it comes in to feed my alts.  I can't afford the 50% cut to my earnings.  I couldn't afford it back then, and still can't afford it now.

 

SGs also would only recruit those who would earn for them so they could spout they were #1.  I hated dealing with this and hearing how people were treated poorly in an SG and they left because of Prestige-crazed leaders.  I left some myself.  On the whole, Prestige only brings competition and division instead unity.  

 

Practically, right now in the present.... There are TONS of solo SGs out there that this would immediately put them at a disadvantage to those who are in a social SG.  With this request, the OP wants to give the big SGs all the advantages and make it hard/impossible for all the little groups/solo players.  My solo SG that would LOVE patrolling LB or Arach in my base but have to kill 100k of the faction??  Will never happen.  Even my social SG with players that I've played with since 2004 - they come in and out of game as life takes hold.... we'll never get those perks either.  

 

So.... no.  Absolutely, no.  

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

At no point did I say they should go back to restricting base building.  Thank you for being the guy that jumps in early and pisses on the post without reading it.

 

It's about giving the Super Group goals and accomplishments again.  At this stage the Super Group got co-opted so that individuals could have a personal hideout at the sacrifice of any type of SG advancement at all.  Those badges you mention are for the individual, not the SG.

If you have to earn and use prestige to buy base items again, even if it doesn't affect current base items, yes, you are saying base building should be restricted. Especially since moving NPCs are one of many things that are being asked for by base builders.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Earth Dragon said:

No one suggested it needed to stay that way.  There are other adjustments that can be made.  Just turn on SG mode and it's less harsh or not at all.

 

Also, let's keep in mind that the OP was about badges and accolades.  The 'wondering guards" was just an example of something that could be offered through the prestige system IF turned back on.  Turn it back on for now, then decide what you can do with it.

 

But with the influx of players, better to turn it on now in some capacity that way people are already building something while the devs look to do something more with it.  Super Group progression has it's place to exist, and I see it asked for 10 times a day on the Everlasting general chat

Players in a SG can already do things in SG mode as a SG. They don't need prestige to do that. If you want to ask for badges that the SG can earn? Fine. Make some badges that are earned by the SG, just bear in mind that those badges will automatically go to any new player/character that joins the SG after the badges have been earned. (Why? Because they are the SG's badges, not the character's badges, so just being in that SG will automatically award them.) Any base items of any kind being locked away? No.

[Earth Dragon]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Looks like your forum profile is a week and a half old. I've played on Everlasting since the server was created back in 2019, and when I play I'll chat in general chat quite a bit.

 

I've never seen anyone request for base building to require prestige once. I'm not saying your a liar by any means, but I've been there for a long time and can't say I've seen the same requests.

 

Most of the people over on Everlasting that I know, enjoy the freedom to design their bases, so that they can use them to be functional like my personal base, express their artistic design, be a tribute to someone or something, or further a role playing story by providing a new and interesting setting.

That's not what is being asked for, and I have no idea why some of you choose to be so blatantly disingenuous. 

 

I neither asked for "bases to require prestige" in this thread, nor did I say people have asked for it in General.  Gaining Prestige for your group and gaining badges for your group has been talked about.  Right now, a group who wants to be in a "Super Group" and not just have "The name of my base" doesn't have anything to work for, and just cut themselves out of massive amounts of personal storage, or a way to easily transfer things amongst their characters and their characters alone.

 

Why do I bring this up?  Before we did.  There was something that was lost that doesn't need to be.  The framework is still there.  What harm would it do to you or anyone one else who wants to keep their artistic expression to turn Prestige back on and keep base component costs at 0?

 

The answer that you are all dodging is "Nothing."  We can have both.  You can have your individual lair/storage/transfer system, and groups who want to feel like they are spreading their influence with a number and hopefully interesting objectives can have that to.  

 

Does that Prestige need to do anything?  Not at the moment.  Or ever at all if there is no sweet spot that can be found.  Let people build it up if they want as the players are coming back.  I've got 5 back myself with 3 more on the way.  Turn off the infamy penalty altogether, or drop it to 20% to be on the safe side if you have to in case there is some cryptic reason it would make a difference.  But if people can start building it now, it leaves the door wide open for something creative to come later.  For many of us players, that prestige number, even by itself, was just an accumulation of our total impact on the region this game showcases.  How many Clockwork we crushed for Positron or how Sky Raider Bases we blew up off of Sharkhead Isle.

 

And since I feel this may have to be stated one more time: I am not asking, nor have I asked, nor have I claimed anyone else has asked, for base functionality to go back to costing Prestige

[Earth Dragon]

I just hope if a dev is reading this thread at all they see how many "no" posts are talking about stuff that wasn't even being asked for

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

That's not what is being asked for, and I have no idea why some of you choose to be so blatantly disingenuous. 

 

I neither asked for "bases to require prestige" in this thread, nor did I say people have asked for it in General.  Gaining Prestige for your group and gaining badges for your group has been talked about.  Right now, a group who wants to be in a "Super Group" and not just have "The name of my base" doesn't have anything to work for, and just cut themselves out of massive amounts of personal storage, or a way to easily transfer things amongst their characters and their characters alone.

 

Why do I bring this up?  Before we did.  There was something that was lost that doesn't need to be.  The framework is still there.  What harm would it do to you or anyone one else who wants to keep their artistic expression to turn Prestige back on and keep base component costs at 0?

 

The answer that you are all dodging is "Nothing."  We can have both.  You can have your individual lair/storage/transfer system, and groups who want to feel like they are spreading their influence with a number and hopefully interesting objectives can have that to.  

 

Does that Prestige need to do anything?  Not at the moment.  Or ever at all if there is no sweet spot that can be found.  Let people build it up if they want as the players are coming back.  I've got 5 back myself with 3 more on the way.  Turn off the infamy penalty altogether, or drop it to 20% to be on the safe side if you have to in case there is some cryptic reason it would make a difference.  But if people can start building it now, it leaves the door wide open for something creative to come later.  For many of us players, that prestige number, even by itself, was just an accumulation of our total impact on the region this game showcases.  How many Clockwork we crushed for Positron or how Sky Raider Bases we blew up off of Sharkhead Isle.

 

And since I feel this may have to be stated one more time: I am not asking, nor have I asked, nor have I claimed anyone else has asked, for base functionality to go back to costing Prestige

Here's the thing: Prestige is a currency in the game. And there is no point to that currency if it does not buy anything. And if it is needed to buy things, then smaller SGs are not going to be able to afford those things. At least not for quite a while. As for other uses for prestige? There have been other threads made for bringing it back. And those threads, just like this one, will penalize smaller SGs just like prestige did back on Live. (I had multiple personal SGs with active bases even back on Live. I hate prestige in this game. Just getting that out of the way now.) There have been calls for the SG roster at the registrars to list SGs based on their prestige. Which is fine for large SGs, but penalizes smaller ones looking for members as the only thing players looking for SGs will see then are the ones with lots of prestige. There was a call to just bring back prestige for the sake of there being prestige, but again, prestige is a currency, so what point does it serve if it has no actual purpose? SG rewards for accomplishing achievements such as wiping out 200,000 faction members? Yeah, small/solo SGs won't be getting that done. So you are rewarding large SGs only. Base items that must be purchased with prestige that base builders have been clamoring for all this time? Well, large SGs will have no problems, but small ones are SoL. What good does bringing back prestige do? I can definitely see the harm of it. I was part of a few SGs back on Live that if you didn't earn a set amount of presitge per week, you were out. You were sick or out of town for a while? Too bad, you're out. And no, you can't re-join because you couldn't uphold the SG's prestige requirements. It's things like everything I've mentioned in this post that I am leery of coming back if prestige comes back in any way.

[lemming]

Turning Prestige back on would be fine assuming it didn't cost influence like it used to.

 

Other than a number, I'd be against it being used for badges, items, etc...

[sykoholic001]

I think what the OP is wanting is a means of giving an SG a goal or objective as a group and allow non-"base builder" members of an SG a way to contribute to the group. The old Prestige system allowed an SG to "level up" their base, giving the members something to work towards, as a group. Even if you weren't the base builder of the group, you could still help the base and the SG by earning the Prestige needed to get that fancy, new, bigger/better, power generator (or whatever).

 

I'm not saying I liked the Prestige system and think it needs to be brought back. I'm just saying there was something of a positive side to it and doing away with Prestige also did away with that positive. If there were some way to bring that positive back without bringing the negative as well.....

The idea of bringing back SG badges has merit but needing those badges to unlock certain cool base items or perks needs re-considering. Locking base items behind SG badges makes them unattainable (or nearly so) for the smaller SGs. I don't recall the exact specifics but it used to be that base medi-porters didn't completely heal a toon. That required a certain auxillary item and THAT was locked behind an SG badge that was earned by SG members collectively healing other toons (while in SG mode) for some outrageous amount. What if your SG only has 5 members and only one of them is a healer? Guess what.... no base medi-porter healing boost for you!

The same goes for non-beneficial base items... such as the suggested "patrolling guards". Defeat 100K of a certain faction to get roving guards in your base... smaller SGs simply won't be able to do it.

The reward needs to be something special enough that people are going to want it but not so special that they'll be upset if they can't get it. It also needs to be something that the base builder community isn't going to want to build with and be upset that it's locked behind a badge... because you know they will. 😉

[Earth Dragon]

I understand the old objections, which is why i never said that base items should cost Prestige again.  Those not wanting to deal with others BS can start their own personal SG with their own base and carry on.

 

But it wasn't just a "currency"

 

It was a number that also accumulated indefinitely as a gauge of theoretical impact that your group had.  Unlike Influence, it just went up indefinitely and had this interesting show of your contribution.  Not to the SG in this sense I mean, but to the cause of Villainy or Heroism.  

 

You can have it automatically on at this stage and have no monetary penalty if that is where we are at.  I can't think of a reason not to do that, but maybe someone else can.

 

I may also be misstating the "badge" thing.  I have vivid memories of there being a tab, like a badge tab, where you could see progress towards base unlocks.  I thought it left a permanent stamp/badge.  Something members of the group could see.  It's those "badges" is how I thought you got the teleporter beacon and the like.  It's been awhile.  But having the tab full again of goals that just show progress does not seem the egregious ask some of you are making it out to be.  And why couldn't one, two, or even 8 be for how much prestige the group accumulated if the badge is just a group badge and nothing more?  This is where the thread just keeps losing me.  Way too many roadblocks and "this can't be allowed" that don't seem to be based on anything that would impact players that didn't care to do it, no different from those that don't care to do a Hami raid.

Edited January 30 by Earth Dragon

[Frozen Burn]

What little good was with the Prestige system is completely outweighed by all the bad.  There is NO WAY to turn on earning Prestige without bringing back the bad.  Small, solo, and casual SGs will always be at a disadvantage.  

 

As @Rudra has stated, Prestige is a currency.  What do we spend it on?  If stuff (not talking base items as that is NOT in OP's plan), then again, Larger SGs have all the advantage and smaller ones have none.  And if prestige is spent on nothing, then why have it?  Just for ranking and boasting you're the top SG earning Prestige?  What does that actually do then?  Nothing, except give a few people some arrogance while everyone else secretly hates them.  

 

Again... MORE bad comes from Prestige than good.

 

IF you want goals for SGs to achieve and earn badges - then how about "Complete X while in SG mode"?  No Prestige... just badges with requirements of the player being in SG mode - and they would have to be requirements that even Small/Solo SGs could earn as well, maybe slower, but possible.  This type of reward is fine... but turning on the Prestige currency system - absolutely not.

 

 

Edited January 30 by Frozen Burn

[tidge]

I certainly remember working for SG prestige back on Live, and then the SG leader went incommunicado and the rest of us were pretty much SoL. It isn't like we could take our prestige with us.

 

In one case, it took sooo long for the auto-promotion to kick in so that I could do anything with the base, the salvage racks were bugged because they still had base crafting salvage in them!

 

Asking for a return to Prestige is asking for a whole lot of pain we haven't had to deal with for four years of Homecoming.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

But it wasn't just a "currency"

 

It was a number that also accumulated indefinitely as a gauge of theoretical impact that your group had.  Unlike Influence, it just went up indefinitely and had this interesting show of your contribution.  Not to the SG in this sense I mean, but to the cause of Villainy or Heroism.  

Then we experienced vastly different prestige back on Live. Because back on Live, a SG's prestige went up and down regularly until their base was fully built up. Only after there was nothing left for the SG to buy with prestige did they just accumulate prestige without it dropping. Which again, is something only the large SGs got to experience. (Edit: And even then, prestige still went down monthly to pay base rent.)

 

11 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

 

I may also be misstating the "badge" thing.  I have vivid memories of there being a tab, like a badge tab, where you could see progress towards base unlocks.  I thought it left a permanent stamp/badge.  Something members of the group could see.  It's those "badges" is how I thought you got the teleporter beacon and the like.  It's been awhile. 

I do not recall that tab, but yes, there were multiple base items that were only available to buy with prestige once you unlocked them. Teleporter beacons for one. Someone in the SG had to go through the zones and grab all the explore badges while in SG mode in order to get access to that zone's teleport beacon for their base. The rez items also had their add on items that were not available until the SG, in SG mode, achieved some milestone to unlock them. Which again worked fine for large SGs, but small ones had to live without. Especially solo ones.

 

11 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

And why couldn't one, two, or even 8 be for how much prestige the group accumulated if the badge is just a group badge and nothing more?

Because again, large SGs will get the required prestige really quickly while the smaller ones will be stuck without. Unless you make the milestones to achieve those badges so low that they don't really matter.

 

Edited January 30 by Rudra
Edited to add an apostrophe and "tab".

[Earth Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Because again, large SGs will get the required prestige really quickly while the smaller ones will be stuck without. Unless you make the milestones to achieve those badges so low that they don't really matter.

 

And that's just being petty.  If I make a non-healer, I don't kick and scream that I am not going to get badges for healing others.  I don't take the medicine pool to achieve those badges, and exceptionally few do.  It's something most don't strive for, and don't care for.

 

The entire TF/SF system and Trials disrupts people "soloing everything with their Stalker".  

 

"Everyone needs to be able to achieve everything on their own terms no matter what" has never been apart of this game, nor any MMO, and its a poor assertion that having SG badges would come with the caveat that a solo member be able to achieve them in whatever hyper-restrictive timeline one would like to staple on.

 

You built your own base and got 14 racks of salvage storage all to yourself.  The perks are already there to do it by yourself.  Do we need to demand the devs adjust base limits to match the amount of accounts in the SG so everything is "fair"?  Of course not.  

 

A handful of no impact to gameplay milestones that are long term goals for SGs with 10+ members is not an unreasonable ask by any metric, particularly when compared to those aforementioned benefits that personal hideout goers are already granted

[tidge]

What is stopping any SG from having "long term goals" now?

[sykoholic001]

4 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

What little good was with the Prestige system is completely outweighed by all the bad.  There is NO WAY to turn on earning Prestige without bringing back the bad.  Small, solo, and casual SGs will always be at a disadvantage.  

 

As @Rudra has stated, Prestige is a currency.  What do we spend it on?  If stuff (not talking base items as that is NOT in OP's plan), then again, Larger SGs have all the advantage and smaller ones have none.  And i prestige is spent on nothing, then why have it?  Just for ranking and boasting you're the top SG earning Prestige?  What does that actually do then?  Nothing, except give a few people some arrogance while everyone else secretly hates them.  

 

Again... MORE bad comes from Prestige than good.

 

IF you want goals for SGs to achieve and earn badges - then how about "Complete X while in SG mode"?  No Prestige... just badges with requirements of the player being in SG mode - and they would have to be requirements that even Small/Solo SGs could earn as well, maybe slower, but possible.  This type of reward or is fine... but turning on the Prestige currency system - absolutely not.

 

 

Totally agree. Prestige was a currency and was far more bad than good. Regardless of what the goal and it's reward is, larger SGs will always have the advantage.

 

17 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

I have vivid memories of there being a tab, like a badge tab, where you could see progress towards base unlocks.  I thought it left a permanent stamp/badge.  Something members of the group could see.  It's those "badges" is how I thought you got the teleporter beacon and the like.  It's been awhile.

 

I seem to recall progress bars for SG badges as well and certain in-base items were locked behind SG badges.

If I'm understanding correctly, what you are wanting is means of tracking/measuring an SG's progress and status in the overall game world. It used to be that you could go to the SG Registrar, bring up a list of all the SGs on the shard, and they would be "ranked" by the amount of Prestige they had. Money typically DOES equal influence and status and Prestige technically was a currency.

You're wanting similar.... a system of measuring an SG's status and influence (it's "rank" so to speak) based on some factor that is earned in-game... for instance, the number of reward merits the members have earned while in SG mode... or something similar.

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

Prestige is a good metric for some things because you get it from however you want to play the game.

 

It is a general marker of how much impact those associated with that base have had on the landscape.  Unlike Influence, how much you've gained never goes down.  And unlike experience, how much you can gain isn't limited.

 

It provides for progression, long term goals, and allows the "group" to accomplish these things, not just the individual.

 

Why not just start every character at level 50?

 

Why not just give everyone unlimited access to every Enhancement, Recipe, and anything else they want on their character during creation?

 

Why not just click on the TF contact and get the rewards without playing it if you don't want to bother, have too small of a group, or don't have the time?

 

Why is group accomplishment something that has to be burned at the stake?

clearly you are a recent addition to our player base.  Welcome!   HC members have fought this battle dozens of times, and generally “give everyone everything “ has triumphed.  Even if prestige were only a number, I believe that enough people would grief that their number was too low, through no fault of their own, mind you.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Earth Dragon said:

And that's just being petty.  If I make a non-healer, I don't kick and scream that I am not going to get badges for healing others. 

This argument fails on this thread. Why? Because if you make a character without heals, of course you don't have access to heal badges. However, we are talking about SGs here. How is being part of a small SG as compared to a large SG the same as making a non-healing character versus a healing character? They aren't even remotely similar. Using the healer example, it is the difference of a character with just one single target heal that grants light healing compared to a character with several heals including AoE ones. Not the difference of making a character without heals compared to one with heals. (Edit: Also, note that in my post you are quoting, I said small SGs, not solo SGs. My "Especially solo SGs" comment was a highlight for reference.)

 

Edited January 30 by Rudra
Edited to correct "?" to ".".

[Oubliette_Red]

47 minutes ago, tidge said:

What is stopping any SG from having "long term goals" now?

 

Without prestige, no e-peen to tout.

 

I am also opposed to re-implementing prestige and locking anything behind it.

 

[Skyhawke]

For just badges? Sure, why not. For anything else? No thank you. I'm a SG of two, myself and my uncle. I don't want any cool items locked because we don't want to run in SG mode. We don't have the manpower to just farm for prestige. The only way I see people being cool with new stuff being locked behind a prestige cost is making prestige crazy easy to earn and the cost of items so low that it becomes a "why bother with this system in the first place" thing. I feel like a lot of returning people are looking for things the way they used to be instead of how they are now. Kinda understandable in a Stockholm Syndrome sorta way, but not at the expense of those of us who've been here for years and like our free stuff. 

[sykoholic001]

1 hour ago, Frozen Burn said:

Just for ranking and boasting you're the top SG earning Prestige?  What does that actually do then?  Nothing, except give a few people some arrogance while everyone else secretly hates them.

 

I never experienced this myself but I have heard stories... some serious p*ssing contests over something so silly and ultimately pointless. Some people will grasp at anything that fulfills their desperate need for a sense of superiority.

[sykoholic001]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

What is stopping any SG from having "long term goals" now?

 

I believe they mean something in-game, like an Achievement or Accomplishment Badge for the SG that the whole SG works towards.

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

I believe they mean something in-game, like an Achievement or Accomplishment Badge for the SG that the whole SG works towards.

 

The entire SG could collect Prismatic Aether's and parade around in a common costume... Of course that has already been done...

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

I believe they mean something in-game, like an Achievement or Accomplishment Badge for the SG that the whole SG works towards.

 

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 

The entire SG could collect Prismatic Aether's and parade around in a common costume... Of course that has already been done...

They can also put on their SG outfit and go out in the community to do things that earns them actual prestige instead of game prestige number. Anyone remember the Taxibots back on Live? You want to talk about a well received and well recognized SG? They had real prestige. I never met a player that didn't like or appreciate them. And it had nothing to do with the currency prestige.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

It was a number that also accumulated indefinitely as a gauge of theoretical impact that your group had.  Unlike Influence, it just went up indefinitely and had this interesting show of your contribution.  Not to the SG in this sense I mean, but to the cause of Villainy or Heroism. 

It did not go up indefinitely.  That was how rent was paid.

 

Just looking at how Prestige was earned, no wonder people have such a negative reaction.  I had forgotten some of oddness, such as leveling up a new char in SG mode until you hit level 25.