Prestige for Super Groups Again

[Skyhawke]

10 hours ago, SupaFreak said:

...was secretly a vampire the whole time!  Heck, I can see him now.  He's back to sucking the fun out of the community's veins and pointing to the leaderboard, like the junkie he was all those years ago.  Once a vampire is let through that door, he's a real pain to evict.
 

 

You know we have a vampire in this community right? 😅

[Skyhawke]

12 hours ago, Laucianna said:

I do like the idea of more badges for SG wide achievements so I'm all for that bit which is what I believe @Earth Dragon was initially trying to get at, I think at the moment these comments have gone off on a tangent that isn't going anywhere though.

 

Literally in their first post is a call to have base items locked behind prestige badges. That's what got most hackles up. That's the slippery slope to "haves", 'have nots" and the friction that causes. Homecoming has gotten along swimmingly without Prestige for almost 5 years. Why rock the boat now?

[Laucianna]

24 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

 

Literally in their first post is a call to have base items locked behind prestige badges. That's what got most hackles up. That's the slippery slope to "haves", 'have nots" and the friction that causes. Homecoming has gotten along swimmingly without Prestige for almost 5 years. Why rock the boat now?

The main point they made was about badges and bringing prestige (They later say just for numbers sake) back, the added a little thing at the end the "could" be cool and I think it's clear it wouldn't be well received 😄 I'm just trying to focus on something positive out of the suggestions to hopefully stop the spiral of prestige hate as it doesn't take the suggestion anywhere. To make it clear I am not suggesting we bring back prestige or special base items locked behind x requirement, but some badges might be cool to have ❤️ 

[ZacKing]

37 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

The main point they made was about badges and bringing prestige (They later say just for numbers sake) back, the added a little thing at the end the "could" be cool and I think it's clear it wouldn't be well received 😄 I'm just trying to focus on something positive out of the suggestions to hopefully stop the spiral of prestige hate as it doesn't take the suggestion anywhere. To make it clear I am not suggesting we bring back prestige or special base items locked behind x requirement, but some badges might be cool to have ❤️ 

 

Badges may be a low hanging fruit thing to do, but why even bother tying them to prestige if prestige has no real meaning?  Enabling it just to enable it so that a badge can be earned without the added sacrifices of XP or inf the way the old system worked seems like a wasted effort.

[Laucianna]

7 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Badges may be a low hanging fruit thing to do, but why even bother tying them to prestige if prestige has no real meaning?  Enabling it just to enable it so that a badge can be earned without the added sacrifices of XP or inf the way the old system worked seems like a wasted effort.

Not saying we bring back prestige lol, just the badges for certain accomplishments

[Andreah]

I would be fine with turning Prestige back on, so long as it wasn't useful for anything at all; nothing to buy, not badges, no perks, nothing. Let it be purely a matter of "prestige".

 

Or, how about this idea: You earn one point of prestige for your supergroup for being logged on for a minute, with no supergroup mode, just automatically and always. SG leaders get a "Reset Prestige" button in their SG panel that zeros out the prestige number for all members at that moment. This would be a tool for SG leaders to know who's been online and how much in addition to the "last online" number of days.

[Captain Valiant]

I have a VERY large stable of characters. Any that are in SGs are in ones I made myself that I'm the only player member of.

 

While I can see the attraction of reinstituting SG Prestige as a tool to determine rank promotions (or bragging rights), neither of those apply to me.

 

In the interest of versatility, however, I would suggest an On/Off toggle approach to this idea.

[sykoholic001]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

I would be fine with turning Prestige back on, so long as it wasn't useful for anything at all; nothing to buy, not badges, no perks, nothing. Let it be purely a matter of "prestige".

 

Say "Prestige" in the context of this game and most people will automatically think the old, much-despised, "SG Money" system which made such a foul taste in most people's mouths that merely mentioning "prestige" will immediately send people into a hissy and turn them against an idea, regardless of what that idea may have actually been. So, say things like "turn Prestige back on" or "prestige for super groups again" and that's all many people are going to see and react to.

 

Anyways....

Prestige does not need to be "turned back on". Rather, it needs to be changed and/or replaced. Maybe we should even go so far as to stop calling it "prestige".

The new "prestige" wouldn't be currency. Nothing to buy or unlock with it. It would simply be a measurement, a metric by which to measure an SG's "success". For every X number of Influence/Infamy, XP, or merits (or whatever) a toon earns as a member of the SG, that SG likewise earns X number of Prestige. Since it  wouldn't be currency, a toon wouldn't have to sacrifice half their Influence/Infamy earned to get it so there would be no downside to playing in SG Mode. In fact, SG Mode itself wouldn't even be necessary and could be (if possible) done away with entirely. Join an SG and the game automatically starts keeping track of the XP/Inf/Merits you earn thereafter. No SG Mode needed.

Maybe at certain milestones, an SG would be rewarded a badge for having earned X amount of Prestige, but that's all it would be... a badge. No perks or bonuses or unlocked base items. Just a badge. Similar to the "Bling/Celebrity" badge a toon gets for earning 500K Inf. Nothing special, just a badge.

There could be other SG badges as well, similar to the Accomplishment, Achievement, and Defeat badges that individual toons get but, again, they would just be badges. No perks. No buffs. No unlocked base items. Just badges. Yes... larger SGs would have an easier time getting them. There is no way around that. 20 players are going to earn more, get more, kill more, do more, whatever far faster than two players will. But, again, they're just badges. Other than the (I dare say) prestige of having them, they don't do anything so there would be no loss or disadvantage in not having them.

 

There could be a bit of an exception to this and this is just a "silly but fun" idea I had. Earning an SG badge could unlock a base item... an in-game representation of the badge, a trophy plaque of sorts for the SG to put on the wall of their base. So when the SG earns a badge, not only do all the members of the SG get the badge, the base gets one too. 😋

[Andreah]

I often suggest ideas for the sake of suggesting ideas. I don't think there is an existing problem any of this actually solves, and I'm happy if nothing is done about it. ^_^

[Arc-Mage]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:58 AM, Earth Dragon said:

I understand the "quick Fix" that was done for players to just have their own base with a depleted player base and to turn all requirements off to allow access to everything, but it would be great to have Prestige gain and Super Group badges back again.

 

(and please forgive any incohesive formatting......it's late but I want to get this posted)

 

This doesn't have to be the old system.  It doesn't need to be attached to the base components.  But turning SG mode on and gaining Prestige (not necessarily taking away from Infamy, but the 50% metric would still be acceptable) while allowing you to contribute to Group badges again would be great, give groups goals, and bring about a consolidation of the player base, allowing us to organize better!!  And I mean put in plenty of badges.  Ideas for badges could include:

 

X Amount of TF/SFs completed

X Amount of Merits collected

X Amount of Prestige collected

X Amount of items sold on the Market

X Amount of items bought on the Market

X Amount of Enemies Defeated

- X Amount of Minions/Lts/Bosses Defeated

- X Amount of Particular Group Defeated

- X Amount of Heroes/ArchVillains Defeated

X Amount of Y Damage Dealt

X Amount of Y Damage Taken

X Amount of Health Healed

X Amount of Levels gained

X Amount of Pets lost

X Amount of Radio/Newspaper Missions completed

 

Some of these badges could give you new stuff for the base that isn't vital, but looks cool, like guards that patrol the place.  Take out 100k Longbow, and now you can have Arachnos guards in the base.  Take out 100k Arachnos, now you can have Longbow patrolling your base etc.  Smaller groups in the game have much smaller requirements (Blighted, for example, would be like 500, while Arachnos, as I noted, could have a 1k, 10k, and even 100k as a reasonable long term goal).

 

To be clear: I'm not asking for everyone to lose their bases for solo play and make them pay for everything again and what not if they want to keep them.  I'm just asking that groups that wish to consolidate get goals and perks they can work for once again which can help build teams to do events, in particular on redside.  And Prestige was just a cool metric as to how much mileage your group had and how much "damage" you had dealt to the gangs and organizations of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles.

 

Oh hell no.

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 hours ago, Andreah said:

This would be a tool for SG leaders to know who's been online and how much in addition to the "last online" number of days.

There's a tab in the Super Group window that shows how long it's been since a character's been online.

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, sykoholic001 said:

Maybe at certain milestones, an SG would be rewarded a badge for having earned X amount of Prestige, but that's all it would be... a badge. No perks or bonuses or unlocked base items. Just a badge. Similar to the "Bling/Celebrity" badge a toon gets for earning 500K Inf. Nothing special, just a badge.

There could be other SG badges as well, similar to the Accomplishment, Achievement, and Defeat badges that individual toons get but, again, they would just be badges. No perks. No buffs. No unlocked base items. Just badges. Yes... larger SGs would have an easier time getting them. There is no way around that. 20 players are going to earn more, get more, kill more, do more, whatever far faster than two players will. But, again, they're just badges. Other than the (I dare say) prestige of having them, they don't do anything so there would be no loss or disadvantage in not having them.

 

There could be a bit of an exception to this and this is just a "silly but fun" idea I had. Earning an SG badge could unlock a base item... an in-game representation of the badge, a trophy plaque of sorts for the SG to put on the wall of their base. So when the SG earns a badge, not only do all the members of the SG get the badge, the base gets one too. 😋

 

All of this right here turns your "measurement" into a currency - you earn enough and you get something.  This completely is opposite of your opening statement saying it should just measure the amount of X a group earns.  Once you reward for a milestone, it becomes "currency" and we're back to the problem of smaller SGs being at the disadvantage, and blah, blah, blah.  Your post was going well until you stated all this.  😄  

 

REGARDING BADGES.....

 

Everyone should remember.... the SG badges never counted towards your total badge count - they were on a separate tab and were for primarily unlocking base items.  And if you left your SG, those badges didn't go with you.  And joining a new SG, you could gain or lose badges compared to your former SG depending on what the people in the new SG has accomplished.

 

So, even if new SG badges are awarded now, and even though they might not unlock base items - they will still be tied to your SG - NOT YOU.  If you leave the SG, you would lose those badges even though you helped earn them. 

 

So... the only point to having them would be as what I think the OP wants, and that is to have a tracker for accomplishing certain things as a group.  I am fine with that. 

 

[sykoholic001]

38 minutes ago, Andreah said:

I often suggest ideas for the sake of suggesting ideas. I don't think there is an existing problem any of this actually solves, and I'm happy if nothing is done about it. ^_^

 

True... there is neither a problem nor a need. There does, however, seem to be something of a "want". Maybe not a large or prevalent "want" but a "want" nonetheless.

Like Captain Valiant, I have a one-player supergroup so none of this really applies to me personally. I would likely never be able to earn any SG Badges if they were re-introduced. Like you, I like to share thoughts and ideas simply for the sake of doing it and making conversation... though, more often than not, I really should just keep my mouth shut. 😉

[sykoholic001]

13 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

All of this right here turns your "measurement" into a currency - you earn enough and you get something.

 

 

Valid point... but apply that same logic/perspective to various other things in the game and allot of them could be considered "currency" as well. We get badges for taking damage. Thus "damage taken" could be considered "currency". We get badges for time spent under the influence of Hold, Mez, or Sleep. Thus that time could be considered "currency". We get badges for defeating Skulls. Thus Skulls could be considered "currency". Anything that earns us a badge could be considered "currency"... including time spent logged off (ie: Day Job badges). Even XP could be considered "currency" because when we earn enough, we gain a level.

So... from this perspective, how/why is the earning of any sort of "currency" and that earning resulting in being awarded a badge any different for an SG than it is for an individual toon? (Note: Not being snarky or smart-a$$ed. Honest and legit question)
 

55 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

This completely is opposite of your opening statement saying it should just measure the amount of X a group earns.

 

Allow me to clarify (if I can 🤨)... it wouldn't be a "currency" in the sense that it couldn't be spent, traded, or exchanged or used to buy, pay for, or otherwise purchase anything. It would simply be earned by the SG but serve no actual in-game purpose other than a means of measuring an SG's activity and "success".

As I said, larger SGs will always have an advantage in "earning" because 20 can get more done than two. I don't really see any way around this other than applying a handicap of some sort (Ie: base amount of X needed multipled by a factor based on the number of players in the SG) but that would likely just result in the exact opposite... it would then be the larger SGs saying "No Fair. We have to work harder".  😑

 

 

[tidge]

I think there is an unstated assumption that Supergroups and their leaders are constantly active, hive-minded cogs that all spin together as some sort of eternal machine that progresses in a uniform way towards completely agreed upon goals.

 

That is not how it was on Live. As I mentioned above: get in a group with a more-or-less absentee SG leader, and you are working as a serf who can get kicked from the SG at any time... and you will lose your precious SG badges. Of course I suppose you can try to join another SG and instantly be granted all their badges? Yay! /s

 

No matter what "good vibes" people are attributing to the prestige-era of SGs, it ultimately became a measuring contest.

[Greycat]

Prestige can go die in a fire. Any and all references to it should be removed.

[sykoholic001]

51 minutes ago, tidge said:

I think there is an unstated assumption that Supergroups and their leaders are constantly active, hive-minded cogs that all spin together as some sort of eternal machine that progresses in a uniform way towards completely agreed upon goals.

 

That is not how it was on Live. As I mentioned above: get in a group with a more-or-less absentee SG leader, and you are working as a serf who can get kicked from the SG at any time... and you will lose your precious SG badges. Of course I suppose you can try to join another SG and instantly be granted all their badges? Yay! /s

 

No matter what "good vibes" people are attributing to the prestige-era of SGs, it ultimately became a measuring contest.

 

Different people experienced different things... the only time I joined someone else's supergroup, the SG Leader wasn't absentee... the whole damned group was. Other than the person who recruited me, I never encountered a single other member of the group. The base was quite large and fully decked out so obviously it had to be a decent sized group and fairly active but for whatever reason there was never anybody there. No "Message of the Day". No chatter in the SG Chat. Nothing. Even the person who recruited me disappeared to never be seen again. After three days of nothing and nobody, I decided that staying in such a group was pointless and quit.

Obviously, not all SGs are bad. We've just had bad experiences. Yes... there are some SG Leaders who are self-important, tyrranical, a-holes who think you somehow owe them for allowing you into their group. Yes... there are those who are overly competitive and insist on turning badge-collecting and prestige-earning into a "Mine is bigger than yours" contest. But there are no doubt others that aren't like that... likely smaller SGs made up of a group of friends who get together in-game to have fun.

[sykoholic001]

5 hours ago, sykoholic001 said:

Say "Prestige" in the context of this game and most people will automatically think the old, much-despised, "SG Money" system which made such a foul taste in most people's mouths that merely mentioning "prestige" will immediately send people into a hissy and turn them against an idea, regardless of what that idea may have actually been.

 

55 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Prestige can go die in a fire. Any and all references to it should be removed.

 

@Andreah See what I mean? 😋

[Earth Dragon]

14 hours ago, Laucianna said:

Not saying we bring back prestige lol, just the badges for certain accomplishments

The teleporters used to unlocked by your group doing a SF/TF so many times.

 

The idea is to bring that tab back, but give you "marker" that it was done so many times without any that gave you base barring those base items.

 

Prestige, if turned back on, is just a general metric of how much impact that character and that group had on the area.  Any talk, at least here, has all been about Prestige only interacting with the badges to highlight that interaction and not paying rent again or for items either

 

If the devs ever added a second area to the game, (like the Rikti attack outside of Boise, Idaho, or off the coast of Brazil or whatever and you travel over there and it has 2 hero zones, 2 Villain zones and a co-op zone) and that area could calculate prestige earned there separate from prestige earned in the core area.  There are interesting things that could be done if it was available again that didn't do much other then showcase an interesting metric.

[Earth Dragon]

17 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

Literally in their first post is a call to have base items locked behind prestige badges. That's what got most hackles up. That's the slippery slope to "haves", 'have nots" and the friction that causes. Homecoming has gotten along swimmingly without Prestige for almost 5 years. Why rock the boat now?

No the first post did not call for that.

 

And that's where this discussion got de-railed and you have a bunch of people give "likes" and responses in a way that show they didn't even read the initial post.

 

No one suggestion to have items locked behind badges, instead it was stated to have that left alone.  So when the comments aren't even comments addressing the OP but some fiction fabricated by the forum militia springing to action against any perceived threat whether real or not, it eliminates any chance for an honest discussion.

 

 

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

17 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

Literally in their first post is a call to have base items locked behind prestige badges. That's what got most hackles up. That's the slippery slope to "haves", 'have nots" and the friction that causes. Homecoming has gotten along swimmingly without Prestige for almost 5 years. Why rock the boat now?

No the first post did not call for that.

 

And that's where this discussion got de-railed and you have a bunch of people give "likes" and responses in a way that show they didn't even read the initial post.

 

No one suggestion to have items locked behind badges, instead it was stated to have that left alone.  So when the comments aren't even comments addressing the OP but some fiction fabricated by the forum militia springing to action against any perceived threat whether real or not, it eliminates any chance for an honest discussion.

 

On 1/30/2024 at 2:58 AM, Earth Dragon said:

 

Some of these badges could give you new stuff for the base that isn't vital, but looks cool, like guards that patrol the place.  Take out 100k Longbow, and now you can have Arachnos guards in the base.  Take out 100k Arachnos, now you can have Longbow patrolling your base etc.  Smaller groups in the game have much smaller requirements (Blighted, for example, would be like 500, while Arachnos, as I noted, could have a 1k, 10k, and even 100k as a reasonable long term goal).

 

 

Yes, you called for base items to be locked behind your badges. And like @Skyhawke said, that was a major red flag.

[Earth Dragon]

29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

Yes, you called for base items to be locked behind your badges. And like @Skyhawke said, that was a major red flag.

I apologize.

 

I'm not going to get into the semantics around the word "items" or how I had stated "components" earlier, but will only state that they caused confusion.

 

The OP has been modified, as has the areas I was drawn to when I re-read, and I noted that the original contents of the modified section are contained above for anyone curious

[sykoholic001]

1 hour ago, Earth Dragon said:

The teleporters used to unlocked by your group doing a SF/TF so many times.

 

The idea is to bring that tab back, but give you "marker" that it was done so many times without any that gave you base barring those base items.

 

Prestige, if turned back on, is just a general metric of how much impact that character and that group had on the area.  Any talk, at least here, has all been about Prestige only interacting with the badges to highlight that interaction and not paying rent again or for items either

 

If the devs ever added a second area to the game, (like the Rikti attack outside of Boise, Idaho, or off the coast of Brazil or whatever and you travel over there and it has 2 hero zones, 2 Villain zones and a co-op zone) and that area could calculate prestige earned there separate from prestige earned in the core area.  There are interesting things that could be done if it was available again that didn't do much other then showcase an interesting metric.

 

I think I see what you're saying... all you are wanting/suggesting is a means of measuring the difference (good or bad) that a group has made in the world. Not necessarily a prize or award for making that difference. Merely an indicator that said difference had been or is being made. Rather than a badge or unlocked base item for 100K of faction X defeated, more of "kill count" showing the group's combined total of faction X defeated. These totals (be they kill counts, SF/TFs completed, Inf earned, damage healed, or whatever) would be tracked via progress bars (or the like) in a tab on the main interface, akin to how one views the badges they've earned and/or are earning.

No buffs, bonuses, or benefits. No prizes, rewards, or badges. No milestones. No unlocked base items. Sure as hell no "currency". Just a series of indicators. "Gauges", if you will.

@Earth Dragon Is THAT what you are wanting/suggesting?

[Earth Dragon]

37 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

I think I see what you're saying... all you are wanting/suggesting is a means of measuring the difference (good or bad) that a group has made in the world. Not necessarily a prize or award for making that difference. Merely an indicator that said difference had been or is being made. Rather than a badge or unlocked base item for 100K of faction X defeated, more of "kill count" showing the group's combined total of faction X defeated. These totals (be they kill counts, SF/TFs completed, Inf earned, damage healed, or whatever) would be tracked via progress bars (or the like) in a tab on the main interface, akin to how one views the badges they've earned and/or are earning.

No buffs, bonuses, or benefits. No prizes, rewards, or badges. No milestones. No unlocked base items. Sure as hell no "currency". Just a series of indicators. "Gauges", if you will.

@Earth Dragon Is THAT what you are wanting/suggesting?

More or less.  Yes

 

I think the only way to calculate that you took out xxxx Arachnos is through a Badge, otherwise a tab with a never ending tally would be interesting to look at.  And the structure was already there for similar badges, so we know it can be turned on.  We also know that the base items clearly don't have to be attached to them.

 

Prestige, as others have aided to illustrate, was more then "just" currency before, and turning it back on would be without it being a currency.  We also know that you can adjust how much it affects your influence/infamy because it was changed for 100% impact to 50% while the game was live.  So it could be further reduced seemingly easily.

[sykoholic001]

9 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

More or less.  Yes

 

Okay... so what exactly does Prestige have to do with this? Prestige, as it was, could be viewed as an SG's influence on the world around them but, in truth, it was currency. It was based solely on the Influence/Infamy that SG members earned. Not XP. Not achievements. Not Merits. Solely on in-game "money". Maybe it's just a matter of perspective but I really don't see how "rich" an SG is as an indication of how of much of a difference it is making in the world. Well... maybe a villain group (not only making a negative difference but profiting from it as well) but certainly not a hero group. Maybe if Prestige, as a metric, were changed so that it was a combination of XP, Inf, Merits, and what-have-you, thereby reflecting all of a member's activities (and thereby, all of the SG's activities) rather than just their money earning, it would better suit the purpose you are suggesting.
 

1 hour ago, Earth Dragon said:

I think the only way to calculate that you took out xxxx Arachnos is through a Badge, otherwise a tab with a never ending tally would be interesting to look at.

 

(I'm pretty sure you meant "wouldn't be interesting to look at" so I will proceed under that assumption.)

I'm not seeing how or why a badge would be necessary. More interesting and more fun... yes. Necessary or the only way... no. Not saying that I'm against the idea. I'm all for it. I love badges. I'm just saying that I don't see it as "necessary". If you want to track/gauge the difference your SG is making in the world, why wouldn't a "never-ending tally" suffice?