Question for Experienced Players: Force Feedback Change for +Recharge

[KITANYA]

Question for the more Experienced players on here.

 

Are there any benefits to having the Force Feedback +Recharge Enhancement in several spots/powers since it is not Unique?

 

Thanks

 

[MoonSheep]

some people love it, i used to use it often but thesedays am unsure

 

consider whether the additional recharge will actually make a difference to your life. if no, a lovely proc may be more desirable

 

it’s a nice bit of fun, i’d mostly put it within slightly slower recharging AoE power (15 ish seconds) so it fires reasonably reliably. i wouldn’t put it in an ST power

[Psyonico]

As far as I know it can't attack with itself, however, the benefit of having it in multiple powers is that it's up more often.

[KITANYA]

Thanks MoonSheep.

 

 

But do you get any benefits from having more of them slotted? Let's say you have three of them in three different places?

 

EDIT: thanks Psyonico

Edited February 8 by KITANYA

[nzer]

The benefit is that it triggers more frequently and has higher uptime.

 

This is not a small benefit, IMO. There are several powersets that can slot FF into two, three, or even four powers, and can have near perma-hasten levels of recharge without any set bonuses.

[roleki]

I wouldn't bother with FF+Rech UNLESS you can slot it into three attacks/summons that you use in combat. FF+Rech doesn't stack magnitude-wise, but it stacks duration-wise; my Grav/Storm is slotted with three of them (Gale/Tornado/and Fissure) and I spend more time with the bonus than without, makes for a lot more mayhem. 

 

If you DO wind up slotting a bunch of FF+Rech procs, be sure to address your endurance recovery (be it through slotting, procs, Incarnate stuff or Accolades) or else you'll be chewing through your blue bar like a fiend.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, KITANYA said:

Thanks MoonSheep.

 

 

But do you get any benefits from having more of them slotted? Let's say you have three of them in three different places?

 

EDIT: thanks Psyonico

Yes. I have several toons with 2-4 of them slotted. More chances for it to go off = more overall recharge buff.

[Perfidy]

1 hour ago, KITANYA said:

Thanks MoonSheep.

 

 

But do you get any benefits from having more of them slotted? Let's say you have three of them in three different places?

 

EDIT: thanks Psyonico

So, let me share an anecdotal experience. I monitor recharge on my rad/SS tank. With Super Strength, there are multiple places to stash the +100% recharge IO. I've never done the math to determine if I'm better off with a simple damage or recharge IO, or whatever set IO I use to get an additional bonus by using something to add to the set in lieu of the Force Feedback IO. But, it is fun to see Foot Stomp recharge very quickly within a few seconds instead of 10-12. The dps I get, I have never measured it, but it's higher. 

Now, each of the 100% don't fire every time. In a couple of powers, it seems like they do, at least most of the time. 

I pretty much use them because it seems like foot stomp is up more often, so I have more fun as result. Optimal? That's anyone's call for their own specific character. 
I do think that some powersets can take better advantage of them than other powersets. 

Again, there's math involved. Each one grants a 100% boost to recharge, but only for 10 seconds. So, if you can time them properly, and they're slotted in fairly slow base recharge powers (Not like kick, even thought kick would accept it), then there's a fair chance that more often than not, your recharge will be 100% faster than it otherwise would be for a very short time. It can make quite a difference, but not enough where you would forego getting hasten or pursuing recharge in your set bonuses. At least, I wouldn't. 

[tidge]

I have tried to leverage on a character where +Recharge both mattered and the %+Recharge was in multiple attack chain powers. I found it to be unreliable and it made very little noticeable difference because of other slotting choices in the build. I think it only has a 2PPM %proc rate with a ceiling of 90%. City of Data has its duration at 5 seconds, with a lockout.

 

I did get annoyed by how it manifested in the "power recharge timers", but that was a personal annoyance.

 

I can believe that there are specific builds with well-tuned attack chains(*1) that could benefit from it, but I haven't felt the need to use it. Based on earlier comments, there are players who see a benefit.

 

(*1) Well-tuned (in my imagination) would be inherently semi-long recharge powers that have good %proc chances that can be rotated "quick enough" that the effects of the %+Recharge boost don't expire (for "very long").

[nzer]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

FF+Rech doesn't stack magnitude-wise, but it stacks duration-wise;

 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. New procs just refresh the duration.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm generally of the mindset that 1. more recharge is always better, but 2. I'm not going to be chasing for specific numbers to achieve perma-anything or really short attack chains.  I generally can find something else to do for the 0.23 seconds I have to wait.

 

The proc is 2PPM, it does last for 5 seconds, it does not stack (although I think Mids might still show it as stacking) and a fresh application resets the timer to 5 seconds.  Since this is a proc that affects you and not the target, putting it in an AoE is much more effective than putting it in a single target attack.  If you attack 5 enemies, it has a chance to proc on each one of those enemies, and so your overall % chance of activation can be over 90%.

 

In practice, I will always put it in AoEs that take it, but I usually won't slot more than two in a build.  For Battle Axe there are three Aoes that will take it, but I'll skip putting it in Cleave.

 

 

[roleki]

1 hour ago, nzer said:

 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. New procs just refresh the duration.

Which is what I described.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, nzer said:

 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. New procs just refresh the duration.

I may be wrong but I believe @rolekiwas trying to say this.  But yes afaik if it fires and then 3 seconds later fires again you end up at 8 seconds of +100% not 10.  Or 13 second and not 20 ... as I don't recall if the duration is 5 or 10 seconds per buff.

Edited February 9 by Doomguide2005

[nzer]

39 minutes ago, roleki said:

Which is what I described.

 

"Stacks duration-wise" implies, at least to me, that the duration of the new buff gets added to the remaining duration of the old buff. You didn't go into detail, so I think it's important to point out that's not what happens. It doesn't stack, it overwrites.

[KITANYA]

Thank you all for the feedback 🙂

[ZemX]

14 hours ago, roleki said:

I wouldn't bother with FF+Rech UNLESS you can slot it into three attacks/summons that you use in combat.

 

That you use in combat, certainly, but there's no reason not to slot even just one if that's all you can slot or feel like your build has room for.  One FF:+rech is somewhat more than one-third the average +recharge benefit of three and for one-third the slot cost.  It's somewhat more than one-third the benefit because of the occasional overlaps you'll get having multiple. 

 

You might not notice being sped up as easily while playing, which is probably what you're getting at here, but the benefit is there anyway.  It's kind of like slotting LOTG:+rech.  Each one provides the same incremental benefit for the same one additional slot cost.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I've mentioned this before, but I usually pick up Kick over Boxing from the Fighting pool, and I like to single slot it with the FF +recharge.  It's certainly a waste of a million+ in inf, but when I use Kick to knock off the last sliver of a tough boss and the proc activates, it's like finding money in a pair of pants you haven't worn in a while.  Nice little rush!

[Clave Dark 5]

I seem to recall someone a couple of years ago built a blaster that was rotten with them, and in play the build was smashy AF.  The Mad King build I think they called it?

 

I'm a big believer in building what you want and playing how you want, so I would say maybe go for it and just see what it feels like for you.  Maybe try it on the test server if you have that kind of time (I don't feel I do, but others do), or just be prepared to respec if it doesn't wow you.