Champions Online

[Captain Fabulous]

3 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

I bought the box copy at the start and had a sub. I agree with a lot of your take. Then they made some changes and I lost access to some of the costume pieces I implemented in my toons and that was the start of the decline. It just became a hot mess after that and it didn't take long to leave that game.

 

I wish CoX would take the good stuff from there (Nemesis system) and apply it here. It would beat adding the same old, same old that we tend to get here these days. Again, I appreciate the HC Devs a ton but please...make some adjustments to the direction you're taking this game. 🙂 The missions have not been good and constantly changing small things is a waste of time for the Devs IMO (giving us these things at start like a Run and jet pack, the exploration badge collecting for a teleporter etc - I'd rather they focus on a Nemesis system or other innovative changes).

I think you underestimate the amount of time, effort, and skill that goes into making new content and systems. Even back on live content updates were few and far between, and Cryptic/Paragon had a staff of full-time workers. Not to mention the fragility of the code base and how trying to add a new system could very well break other things in unexpected ways. And while the idea of a Nemesis system was pretty cool, the CO implementation was kinda meh. A lot of potential that was never reached. There are some good things in CO, IMO it's an enjoyable game to play casually as there's some nice content and mechanics there (along with some really nice costume pieces and character builds you simply can't do here), but CoH is overall a far better game.

I think we would all love to see massive updates, but honestly I'm just thankful to be able to play again and am grateful for all the hard work the HC team does to give us new stuff and QoL additions whenever and wherever possible.

[StarseedWarrior]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:12 AM, Haijinx said:

It always felt like a solo game to Mr, like most newer MMOs

Actually the pve was amazing before they increased the exp and rewards in bank missions, it made the game so boring because no one wanted to do regular pve content and the actually leveling content is the best content in the game! SMH! It had so much potential.

[StarseedWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I think you underestimate the amount of time, effort, and skill that goes into making new content and systems. Even back on live content updates were few and far between, and Cryptic/Paragon had a staff of full-time workers. Not to mention the fragility of the code base and how trying to add a new system could very well break other things in unexpected ways. And while the idea of a Nemesis system was pretty cool, the CO implementation was kinda meh. A lot of potential that was never reached. There are some good things in CO, IMO it's an enjoyable game to play casually as there's some nice content and mechanics there (along with some really nice costume pieces and character builds you simply can't do here), but CoH is overall a far better game.

I think we would all love to see massive updates, but honestly I'm just thankful to be able to play again and am grateful for all the hard work the HC team does to give us new stuff and QoL additions whenever and wherever possible.

I think the dated coding has allot to do with that.

[Haijinx]

It wasn't a bad game per se, but that's the thing with MMOs either you can have fun teaming, or they better be good single player games. 

 

It really isn't about builds and powers or even genre.  At least to me.  

 

[BurtHutt]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I think you underestimate the amount of time, effort, and skill that goes into making new content and systems. Even back on live content updates were few and far between, and Cryptic/Paragon had a staff of full-time workers. Not to mention the fragility of the code base and how trying to add a new system could very well break other things in unexpected ways. And while the idea of a Nemesis system was pretty cool, the CO implementation was kinda meh. A lot of potential that was never reached. There are some good things in CO, IMO it's an enjoyable game to play casually as there's some nice content and mechanics there (along with some really nice costume pieces and character builds you simply can't do here), but CoH is overall a far better game.

I think we would all love to see massive updates, but honestly I'm just thankful to be able to play again and am grateful for all the hard work the HC team does to give us new stuff and QoL additions whenever and wherever possible.

Maybe I'm underestimating the time but I would gladly trade an improved Nemesis system for all of the HC mission content (this include the Aeon SF). I know a Nemesis system means implementing the foe into so many things but it might be worth it.

 

I'd also prefer my idea for players to help create CoX missions via AE 2.0 but that isn't looking like it'll happen...le sigh...

[Vic Raiden]

9 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

I'd also prefer my idea for players to help create CoX missions via AE 2.0 but that isn't looking like it'll happen...le sigh...

Do elaborate, please? I'm interested.

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the nemesis system is copyrighted or something... sounds like a Nemesis Plot to limit the fun others could have.

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Vic Raiden said:

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the nemesis system is copyrighted or something... sounds like a Nemesis Plot to limit the fun others could have.

 

I doubt the concept of a nemesis repeatedly showing up is copyrightable - It's been a major story concept since time immemorial, and was popular in pen & paper RPGs for decades.

 

It may be that Cyptic's system at a technical level is patented (I'd be surprised if it wasn't) but I can think of different ways to implement a system such as that.

 

The real skill is balancing it right - it's one thing to have an arch-nemesis who you encounter sometimes during your journey in a game but there are two really important criteria there; a) It must be relatively infrequent and b) you should be able to finally defeat them close to the end game

 

If you have somebody turning up too often it stops being fun and becomes a PITA and if you can't ever defeat them it can feel demoralizing and leave the player frustrated , thinking "What's the bloody point?"

 

And of course the Nemesis has to be personal to you - which in an MMO is very difficult to achieve and a "clone" is too cliched to bear real scrutiny.

[BurtHutt]

3 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

Do elaborate, please? I'm interested.

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the nemesis system is copyrighted or something... sounds like a Nemesis Plot to limit the fun others could have.

I've posted my AE idea a couple times and discussed it. Essentially, it's making an alternate AE where Devs control adding missions to game.

 

Players would create basic missions and then Devs screen and drop approved missions into new, regular contacts. These missions would be canon, require players to write up all info needed (Wiki, character info etc) and give regular rewards. I thought leveraging the players to add content would be a great idea. Essentially they'd be radio/paper level missions. This would be a nice change from the the stuff we've had for decades now. The HC Devs are doing a good job but adding content is not easy and they can't keep up with demand.

 

I was told making AE 2,0 for this purpose would be a lot of front end work so I can see why it hasn't been implemented.

[Sunsette]

6 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the nemesis system is copyrighted or something... sounds like a Nemesis Plot to limit the fun others could have.

 

The game Shadow of Mordor had a pretty high-profile thing a few years back about how its Nemesis system was patented. It was a good deal more complicated than CO's Nemesis system, and as a patent, it only protects their very specific way of doing things from deliberate code dissection and reverse-engineering, not the general concept (and SoW doesn't have much to do with CO's Nemesis system conceptually anyway -- theirs is about procedurally generated enemies that advance their own careers parallel to the players to make each playthrough unique). It was big news because it's extremely rare to give patents on software, so I doubt CO managed a similar feat a decade prior.

Champions Online's code is certainly copyrighted but that doesn't extend any protection against any thing on this scope.

Edited March 16 by Sunsette

[Lunar Ronin]

For what it's worth, Cryptic Studios CEO Phil Frazier gave an update on Twitch last night as to the status of Champions Online, Neverwinter, and Star Trek Online.  You can read more about it here if you'd like.

 

To sum up though, all three games are safe from sunset.  Star Trek and Neverwinter are both licensed for at least several more years.  In addition, Champions Online will get several releases per year of content!  I imagine, for Champions Online at least, that they will be small releases, but better than maintenance mode.

 

It doesn't sound like Cryptic Studios itself will still exist by the end of the year though.

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

Champions Online will get several releases per year of content!  I imagine, for Champions Online at least, that they will be small releases, but better than maintenance mode.

The problem with CO, and we're seeing this in Fallout 76 as well, is that after they've made the initial investment into the main world/zones, everything after basically boils down to instanced content;  They don't want to make significant changes to the main world space, and there's this almost pathological hatred of revamping the old content to update old enemies as new powersets or mechanics are released.  Everything has either been lockboxes or alerts, (small per-team instanced events that use sections of existing maps).  They tried what is essentially their version of taskforces, but those petered out early in the game's life.