Some things "I" think would be cool additions

[Drow2100]

I'm sure many of you have heard of the CoH "New Dawn" server? They are another private server doing amazing things with power sets! Of course, most of them are overpowered because you will be soloing through the entire game 😛

 

I think many of those sets would translate well here with a bit of altering and I think these guys kind of work with them already as the "Arsenal" power set and the "Sybil" female attire were natives of that server.

 

Here are some of the things I think would be great for this server:

 

Mythical/Elemental Blast - This server has NO magic power sets whatsoever except for the sorcery secondary. It would be nice to add a touch of magic to the game.

 

"Speedster" as inspired by Quicksilver

 

"Nightcrawler" as inspired by the hero of the same name

 

Outside of those, I think a "knight mastermind" would be interesting...

 

Costume-wise, I would love to see a martial arts long robe, a samurai robe, mage robes and proper long, full body dresses for the females

 

Just my .01 cents

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

the "Sybil" female attire were natives of that server.

The sybil female attire existed (for NPCs only) back on Live and was available to players after shut down on Icon shortly after. (As were pretty much all NPC costume pieces even if they broke the character model. Like how the Praetorian Seer costume pieces did.)

 

15 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Mythical/Elemental Blast - This server has NO magic power sets whatsoever except for the sorcery secondary. It would be nice to add a touch of magic to the game.

I can get behind an Elemental or Primal Forces or Chaos or whatever name power set you propose, even with magic themed animations, but not a power set that was specifically called any form of magic. This discussion has been had repeatedly, even recently, and you can do a quick search to see them.

 

19 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

"Speedster" as inspired by Quicksilver

Is covered by the Speed power pool. (Also, there are many ways to make a speedster, and I oppose anything that tries to pigeonhole speedster characters into existing stereotypes.)

 

20 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

"Nightcrawler" as inspired by the hero of the same name

Is covered by the Teleportation pool. It even has a Combat Teleport power. (Additional options for teleport effects are good though.)

 

21 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Costume-wise, I would love to see a martial arts long robe, a samurai robe, mage robes and proper long, full body dresses for the females

This has been addressed a few times. The problem with the long robes/dresses is the clipping. Currently, there is no way to have such a garment for PCs that doesn't clip obscenely as they undertake basic movement, let alone attacks. Mobs with long robes such as the Tsoo also clip, but they ahve limited actions available to them, reducing the clipping, and use a cheat to hide the clipping when sitting outside of combat. The long dresses the Carnies have function because that is basically what their model is. They have no legs and have no attacks that use their legs.

[ThatGuyCDude]

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This has been addressed a few times. The problem with the long robes/dresses is the clipping. Currently, there is no way to have such a garment for PCs that doesn't clip obscenely as they undertake basic movement, let alone attacks. Mobs with long robes such as the Tsoo also clip, but they ahve limited actions available to them, reducing the clipping, and use a cheat to hide the clipping when sitting outside of combat. The long dresses the Carnies have function because that is basically what their model is. They have no legs and have no attacks that use their legs.

For the Carnival of Shadows dresses, I wonder if setting it up like Monstrous Legs would work.  That is, create a new lower body category that renders the model's legs invisible and makes the skirt a static or animated static object (like how Wings work).  The developers have already done stuff like that for the fish tank head, so hiding parts of a model isn't new tech.  Might look a little weird as the attack and effect auras would still be clinging to the invisible legs, resulting in 'psychic' kicks.  I bet Snakes have the same problem with the leg animations, but I wonder if that approach would work with their lower bodies too.

Also, maybe an approach like Trench Coats and Big Collars, where there's a static model around the waist and the cape physics only apply below the knees?

[Shin Magmus]

3 minutes ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

For the Carnival of Shadows dresses, I wonder if setting it up like Monstrous Legs would work.  That is, create a new lower body category that renders the model's legs invisible and makes the skirt a static or animated static object (like how Wings work).  The developers have already done stuff like that for the fish tank head, so hiding parts of a model isn't new tech.  Might look a little weird as the attack and effect auras would still be clinging to the invisible legs, resulting in 'psychic' kicks.  I bet Snakes have the same problem with the leg animations, but I wonder if that approach would work with their lower bodies too.

Also, maybe an approach like Trench Coats and Big Collars, where there's a static model around the waist and the cape physics only apply below the knees?

Lieutenant Carnie... you ain't got no legs!

[biostem]

57 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Mythical/Elemental Blast - This server has NO magic power sets whatsoever except for the sorcery secondary. It would be nice to add a touch of magic to the game.

*Every* powerset can be magic.  It's just where your powers come from or how they are powered that makes them magic, not the resulting blast itself.

 

58 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

"Speedster" as inspired by Quicksilver

There is a speed power pool.  If you're talking about something more specific, like "speed melee", then I could get behind that.  Super Reflexes is kind of the armor version of this.

 

59 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

"Nightcrawler" as inspired by the hero of the same name

We already have teleportation powers.  We also have sword or various martial arts powers as well.  Combine them as needed to achieve your very own version of Nightcrawler.

 

59 minutes ago, Drow2100 said:

Outside of those, I think a "knight mastermind" would be interesting...

There have been many proposals for Medieval/knights/fantasy MM sets.  Sadly, MM primaries seem to require the most amount of work to create, hence why we haven't seen any new ones.

 

1 hour ago, Drow2100 said:

Costume-wise, I would love to see a martial arts long robe, a samurai robe, mage robes and proper long, full body dresses for the females

You can get some long robes already, doubly so if you include the long skirt options.  Maybe they could be ported over for male & huge body types to use as well.

[Drow2100]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

*Every* powerset can be magic.  It's just where your powers come from or how they are powered that makes them magic, not the resulting blast itself.

 

There is a speed power pool.  If you're talking about something more specific, like "speed melee", then I could get behind that.  Super Reflexes is kind of the armor version of this.

 

We already have teleportation powers.  We also have sword or various martial arts powers as well.  Combine them as needed to achieve your very own version of Nightcrawler.

 

There have been many proposals for Medieval/knights/fantasy MM sets.  Sadly, MM primaries seem to require the most amount of work to create, hence why we haven't seen any new ones.

 

You can get some long robes already, doubly so if you include the long skirt options.  Maybe they could be ported over for male & huge body types to use as well.

I don't know how to break down each topic the way some of you did so I will just answer here. These responses are for Rudra as well.

 

Yes *every* powerset can be "magic" but why not actually have something actually dedicated TO magic as flavor? ALL powersets are just flavor and do essentially the same thing as the others within the archetype. Rudra says that there can't be a powerset specifically called any form of magic. Er - WHY is that? It's just a powerset name... Why do we need FIVE powesets dealing with guns, ammunition and devices not including secondaries?

 

Yes, I meant a speed combat set

 

Yes but why not tie various single and multi-target attacks TO the teleport to make "Nightcrawler". New Dawn did it and it's pretty cool!

 

Fair enough on the MM

 

I know about those options to make it look like long robes but it isn't quite authentic is it? Rudra however already gave a good explanation of why it would be difficult under the engine restraints, I was just seeing if any of those *might* be possible.

 

Thanks for all of your feedback!

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Drow2100 said:

I don't know how to break down each topic the way some of you did so I will just answer here.

Click on one side of the part of the post you want to quote, hold the click, and drag the mouse until all you want to quote is highlighted. When you release the mouse button, a popup saying "Quote selection" will appear. Click that and the part of the post you want to respond to gets quoted in your response.

 

1 hour ago, Drow2100 said:

Yes *every* powerset can be "magic" but why not actually have something actually dedicated TO magic as flavor? ALL powersets are just flavor and do essentially the same thing as the others within the archetype. Rudra says that there can't be a powerset specifically called any form of magic. Er - WHY is that? It's just a powerset name... Why do we need FIVE powesets dealing with guns, ammunition and devices not including secondaries?

I am rather tired of constantly explaining this, which is why I said you could just do a search and see how this topic has been debated so far. However, I will answer again. First, any weapon in the game, including the assault rifle and the beam rifle, can be magic weapons. Either the weapon itself is enchanted or you magically possess the skill to use it or you enhance the weapon when you use it magically. Even the bots in the Robotics MM primary set can be magic. The first robots in literature were golems, magical creations. (Edit: And if you don't believe me, look up Talos from Greco-Roman mythology.) They can also be magically controlled, magically powered, magically enhanced, and so forth. They use tech animations, yes, but that is why we often ask for alternate animations. Second, magic itself is not a power effect, it is a power source. If you magically conjure fire, it is still fire. If you magically conjure lightning, it is still lightning. If you magically conjure a blast of pure, raw, unadulterated magic, it is still an energy blast. Just one that is defined as magic. Everything that comes from magic, if you look at what it actually does, is the exact same as any other source of that effect, just using magic as its source. So if you want a multi-element set that uses magic themed animations? I'm fine with it because every power set has to have its base animations. If you want alternate animations for existing power sets that are more magic themed, I support it. If you want a Magic Blast set that uses magic themed animations though? I oppose it. Magic is not an effect, it is a source that powers other effects. And all effects can be defined as magic because of that.

 

1 hour ago, Drow2100 said:

Yes but why not tie various single and multi-target attacks TO the teleport to make "Nightcrawler". New Dawn did it and it's pretty cool!

Because Nightcrawler's combat skills are not teleport attacks. Nightcrawler can use those attacks regardless of whether he teleports or not. He incorporates his attacks into his teleports because it keeps his opponents off guard and handicapped. Which you can do with the Combat Teleport power. (Edit: At least to the extent that the game can process.)

Edited March 16 by Rudra

[Saiyajinzoningen]

those servers are not "official" servers

those that I have tried may have some neat effects but

they are buggy

unstable 

and/or have ungodly UI issues

[Akisan]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

If you want a Magic Blast set that uses magic themed animations though?

 

Nah, that'd be too generic, especially after Arsenal proliferation.  I want a very, very sarcasticly named "Magic" set that uses tech/science animations, preferably with recommended chat macros for when my character uses "spells" and "magical devices" they clearly don't understand. "Halt, evildoer, or I'll smite you with my lightning wand!" (taser)  "Begone! The power of 'Science' compels thee!" (Energy Torrent/ kinetic thrust)

 

In all seriousness though, pretty much every powerset in the game can be RP'd as Magic... or any other Origin.  Adding extra animation stuff to force one origin or another really takes away player agency, so please no. (Kinda why our costumes have zero effect on our combat abilities/effectiveness.  Though, no complaints if said animations are added as alternate, optional flourishes, and not the default power animations.)  And the Origin pools are kinda an exception here - they're more of a case of any origin of character rounding out their abilities with specialized training / gear (Like a Natural martial artist learning their way around a few devices on a utility belt, or a Mutant shapeshifter picking up a few spells).  

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

In all seriousness though, pretty much every powerset in the game can be RP'd as Magic... or any other Origin.  

a robot mastermind RPing as magic might be stretching the limits of credibility here. lol

[Drow2100]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Click on one side of the part of the post you want to quote, hold the click, and drag the mouse until all you want to quote is highlighted. When you release the mouse button, a popup saying "Quote selection" will appear. Click that and the part of the post you want to respond to gets quoted in your response.

 

Awesome! Ty!

 

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

I am rather tired of constantly explaining this, which is why I said you could just do a search and see how this topic has been debated so far.

Sorry - WHO are you? Are you a moderator or something?

 

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

So if you want a multi-element set that uses magic themed animations? I'm fine with it because every power set has to have its base animations. If you want alternate animations for existing power sets that are more magic themed, I support it.

I don't care how it's implemented as long as it works. I'm talking THEMES here, where someone might want to play a wizard with powers that support that role be it a "blaster", "controller", "MM", what have you.

 

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Because Nightcrawler's combat skills are not teleport attacks. Nightcrawler can use those attacks regardless of whether he teleports or not. He incorporates his attacks into his teleports because it keeps his opponents off guard and handicapped. Which you can do with the Combat Teleport power. (Edit: At least to the extent that the game can process.)

I already have such a character using combat teleport. Yes he can make those attacks without teleporting. Yes it kinda works for the concept but you have to click combat teleport, select your spot and then click your attack. Why not cut out the middleman and just make one attack? Not ALL of his attacks have to be attributed to teleports but it would be cool to see a "bamf" attack from range or "bamf" blink attacks in an area. New Dawn proved it can be done. Is some stuff on that platform buggy? Yes, but they have a lot of great ideas that I think might translate well here if cleaned up a bit. The devs always talk about wanting to expand the game - well that's what this is about. Adding a bit more "flavor" to existing sets, making completely new ones creating new things (as they have done) refreshes the lifeblood of the game

Edited March 16 by Drow2100

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Drow2100 said:

Sorry - WHO are you? Are you a moderator or something?

What prompted that? I never claimed to be a moderator. And like I said, this has been discussed several times and those discussions can be found with a quick search.

 

2 hours ago, Drow2100 said:

Yes he can make those attacks without teleporting. Yes it kinda works for the concept but you have to click combat teleport, select your spot and then click your attack. Why not cut out the middleman and just make one attack? Not ALL of his attacks have to be attributed to teleports but it would be cool to see a "bamf" attack from range or "bamf" blink attacks in an area.

Nightcrawler has to do the exact same thing. He has to teleport to his target, positioning his teleport, and then immediately launch into an attack when he exits his teleport. And if he wants to do a flurry of attacks like he has against some targets in the span of a single panel, then he has to rapidly teleport to his target multiple times in that span of time, positioning himself with every teleport, and launching an attack when he exits the teleport before launching into the next teleport in the sequence. If you want "bamf" animations? Ask for them. However, aside from the "bamf" and visual style of his teleports, you can already make Nightcrawler.

[arcane]

It sure sounds like you want to just play New Dawn?

[megaericzero]

Hello and welcome to the forums.

 

This subforum had a rather lengthy discussion about the topic of an Arcane Blast set recently over in this thread, and very recently too.

The topic also comes up periodically, among a handful of other suggestions.

 

Of your bullet points, I like Knights as set for Masterminds. Sounds cool.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

a robot mastermind RPing as magic might be stretching the limits of credibility here. lol

Look past the exterior housing that is the robot - what powers it?  What dictates its behavior?  It could be a magical power source or said robots could simply be vessels to contain an animating spirit of some kind.  You must think in comic book /fictional terms, and not just how things function IRL.

[biostem]

8 hours ago, Drow2100 said:

Yes *every* powerset can be "magic" but why not actually have something actually dedicated TO magic as flavor? ALL powersets are just flavor and do essentially the same thing as the others within the archetype. Rudra says that there can't be a powerset specifically called any form of magic. Er - WHY is that? It's just a powerset name... Why do we need FIVE powesets dealing with guns, ammunition and devices not including secondaries?

Can you describe what makes something quintessentially "magic"?  If I made a character with fire blasts, what would differentiate said character projecting magical fire vs some mutant ability?  Is it just aesthetics?  What damage type would a magical blast set deal?  The thing is, I wouldn't be against, say, a "wand blast" set, if it included tech, steampunk, or other such less obviously magical implements, but I'd rather have wands & staves as alternate animation options instead.  Now let's look at the various firearms you mentioned - do you *know* for a fact how each and every character's weapons function?  What's to say they use a small magical charge to propel the bullet instead of gunpowder?  Maybe they don't fire bullets at all, and instead conjure small chunks of matter then launch them, no chemical reaction necessary?  Heck, maybe they are mundane weapons, but your character uses a magical ritual or enchantment to give them the skill to wield said weapons effectively.  In summary, magic is a "how", not a "what" - it describes how your character is able to do the things they do, but the end result is still energy, fire, ice, etc...

[Grouchybeast]

3 hours ago, Drow2100 said:

I don't care how it's implemented as long as it works. I'm talking THEMES here, where someone might want to play a wizard with powers that support that role be it a "blaster", "controller", "MM", what have you.

 

I think the issue with a lot of the 'we should have a magic powerset!' suggestions is that they rarely say what a magic powerset actually looks like.

 

Maybe you could lay out at least a rough outline for what you're imagining?  What AT it's for, what the T1-T8 powers would look like and the approximate effects they'd have (damage type, mez type, buff/debuff etc).  Then people could get a better idea of the suggestion.  'Magic' is pretty vague, or at the very least is open to a lot of different interpretations!

[Luminara]

"You're a mutant"

"Yeah."
"Cool.  What does your mutation do?"
"It lets me cast spells."
"Then you're a wizard, not a mutant."
"No, my mutation is what lets me cast spells.  I'm a mutant."

"Dude over there's casting spells, he's not a mutant."
"IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!  I'M A MUTANT!"
"And your mutation is... spell casting... which doesn't require mutant powers..."
"I hate you."

"Hey, did you hear about the guy who invented a machine that could cast spells?  A technological device created by science, that has a mutation which allows it to cast spells.  Isn't that something."
"I wish I'd never been born."

[Drow2100]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

It sure sounds like you want to just play New Dawn?

It sure sounds like your projecting. This IS the "suggestion" forum last I checked

[biostem]

26 minutes ago, Luminara said:

"It lets me cast spells."

And in some settings, the ability to cast magic is a genetic trait.  The issue here is what is the end result.  For instance, how does that mutant from your example know that they are one and that it is said mutation that allows them to access magic? Either way, the question boils down to aesthetics;  We have a pretty good idea what constitutes fire or ice blasts.  Even dark blasts are pretty well cemented.  What makes a particular blast magic?  Is it the presence of runes, magic circles, and the like?  Those can be accomplished with auras.

 

I think a good example to consider would be radiation blast - IMHO, it's an inconsistent set.  Beyond the default greenish color, there's like no coherency among the powers - a generic hand blast, eye beams, somewhat gaseous/cloudy effects, then some energy balls, but that's it.  Heck, the set doesn't even have some generic geiger counter sounds or anything.  Color it something else, and there's little to signal to an outside viewer that this person is slinging radiation...

[Drow2100]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Can you describe what makes something quintessentially "magic"?  If I made a character with fire blasts, what would differentiate said character projecting magical fire vs some mutant ability?  Is it just aesthetics?  What damage type would a magical blast set deal?  The thing is, I wouldn't be against, say, a "wand blast" set, if it included tech, steampunk, or other such less obviously magical implements, but I'd rather have wands & staves as alternate animation options instead.  Now let's look at the various firearms you mentioned - do you *know* for a fact how each and every character's weapons function?  What's to say they use a small magical charge to propel the bullet instead of gunpowder?  Maybe they don't fire bullets at all, and instead conjure small chunks of matter then launch them, no chemical reaction necessary?  Heck, maybe they are mundane weapons, but your character uses a magical ritual or enchantment to give them the skill to wield said weapons effectively.  In summary, magic is a "how", not a "what" - it describes how your character is able to do the things they do, but the end result is still energy, fire, ice, etc...

Dude - it's not that deep... It's JUST a suggestion for a magic powerset. I don't understand the pushback. Maybe people just like to argue for argue sake...

[biostem]

Just now, Drow2100 said:

Dude - it's not that deep... It's JUST a suggestion for a magic powerset. I don't understand the pushback. Maybe people just like to argue for argue sake...

And I'm asking what magic blasts look like.  What makes them magic, other than your say-so.  I can look at fire blasts and say "yeah, that's fire".  What's your go-to to sell that this proposed set would be magic?  

[Akisan]

5 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

a robot mastermind RPing as magic might be stretching the limits of credibility here. lol

 

But... isn't the heart/mind of those golems just a carefully carved wafer of rock that's been carefully inlaid with copper and gold to channel energy in specific ways?  Just because *we* understand the tech involved, doesn't mean our characters do (it's generally implied they do, but could be fun to RP otherwise).

 

On the flip side - Thaumaturgy's a respectable branch of science on some worlds, because to them magic is a science, with easily proven and duplicated results.  Who's to say any given dimension-hopping mage character isn't a highly respected scientist/inventor on their home world?

[Drow2100]

35 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I think the issue with a lot of the 'we should have a magic powerset!' suggestions is that they rarely say what a magic powerset actually looks like.

 

Maybe you could lay out at least a rough outline for what you're imagining?  What AT it's for, what the T1-T8 powers would look like and the approximate effects they'd have (damage type, mez type, buff/debuff etc).  Then people could get a better idea of the suggestion.  'Magic' is pretty vague, or at the very least is open to a lot of different interpretations!

It could be as simple as making a magic "blaster" with lightning bolts, fireballs, eldritch blast, mirror image, ect - the kind of things they can do in DnD. It could be a controller with buffs, debuffs, control powers. Same as what is available just under a different theme in terms of appearance and animation. I'm sure it's not that difficult for the team

[Drow2100]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

And I'm asking what magic blasts look like.  What makes them magic, other than your say-so.  I can look at fire blasts and say "yeah, that's fire".  What's your go-to to sell that this proposed set would be magic?  

See my response to grouchybeast