Does Dark Regeneration need a balance pass?

[ScarySai]

8 hours ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

If it's overhealing on average at 6 targets out of 10, wouldn't the reasonable change to balance be to reduce its healing and its endurance cost equally by 33%?  So a baseline of 375 HP per target for 22.5 END?  It looks like an even exchange, but it'd be a net buff because the HP gain is otherwise wasted and thus the extra END is wasted too.

I'd consider suggesting something more exotic like increasing Max HP per target hit (as a counter to Oppressive Gloom's -Max HP), but that's just hitting a different cap, isn't it?

 

Dark regen isn't the problem with the set. Current tuning makes it good on single target and aoe.

 

As much as I would like to trust the powers that be with a dark overhaul, I can't. What has been said about dark armor has only convinced me they shouldn't touch it.

[Uun]

What if they kept the current heal strength for the first target but reduced it for additional targets? For example (using tank numbers), 562 non-stacking plus 281 stacking. This would still get you pretty close to the tank hp cap unenhanced with 10 targets. 

 

12 hours ago, Videra said:

The Powers Devs are not interested in making reasonable balance changes to armor. Exhibit A: Fire Armor being gutted.

I'm not sure how you equate the changes to Burn with Fire Armor being gutted. Every other change made to the set in p5 was a buff. I'm very happy with how the set currently plays.

Fiery Aura

Rise of the Phoenix (now Phoenix Rising)

• Renamed Phoenix Rising.
• This power can now be used when alive.
• The effects of this power (damage, healing, endurance) will be stronger the closer the user is to death.
• The player power can't be used if the player has more than 75% health.
• The power will only make the player invulnerable and grant XP protection if the power is used after death.
• Damage increased when used while dead, relative to Live.

Burn

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• While under the effect of Fiery Embrace, Burn will spawn a second burn patch for 4.5 seconds

Consume

• Power now grants a small Max HP buff even if no targets are available or hit.
• Power no longer needs a target to grant End Drain protection. (+End still requires targets)
• Power is now auto-hit. Damage still requires a to-hit check.
• This power now takes Healing sets and enhancements.

Temperature Protection

• This power now grants Mag 1 Knock protection in PvE. (This is strong enough to prevent most knockdowns and some weak knockback).
• This power now grants unenhanceable +regeneration.

Healing Flames

• Cast Time lowered from 1.5 seconds to 0.73 seconds.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I like DA 

its probably my favorite armor set in the game

even if it isn't the best

as @Rudra has pointed out to me many, many times

balance is more than just a few things.

reducing its healing and endurance cost by 33% sounds great but 

what about its recharge rate, range and/accuracy?

 

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I'm not sure how you equate the changes to Burn with Fire Armor being gutted. Every other change made to the set in p5 was a buff. I'm very happy with how the set currently plays.

 

Fire's identity was more or less gutted, particularly with brutes since they had the one version of burn that actually did good damage without procs. Now it's just a generic, boring armor set with some utility but effectively doesn't do anything well enough to be notable. Whereas before it's lower values were compensated by an overflow of damage.

 

Phoenix rising is also a completely trash power rework. And what I might consider the most insulting change of the bunch:

1 hour ago, Uun said:

This power now grants Mag 1 Knock protection in PvE. (This is strong enough to prevent most knockdowns and some weak knockback).

 

No, it doesn't. I don't know where Bopper got that idea from, but it's wrong. FA doesn't even have a resist stat to multiply the protection value with.

 

By all means though, go ahead and bring a fire armor character without and zephyrs into a council mission as I watch you get dribbled like a basketball.

Edited April 16 by ScarySai

[macskull]

A Fire Armor character previously needed to slot at least one - and in many cases three or four - knockback protection IO. There are virtually no enemy knockback powers that 5 points will protect against but 4 points won’t. Given this, the single point of KB protection in-set is really only there as a token amount of protection, especially since you have to wait until level 10 to pick the power where you could instead slot a KB protection IO as low as level 7 and get 4x better protection, and the number of slots a Fire Armor character must invest in knockback protection hasn’t changed. While the change is technically a buff, it is a buff on paper only. The best part about the FA rework was the addition of +maxHP to Consume, but even that wasn’t worth the gutting of one of the two set-defining powers.

[GM Tock]

Second time through.  More stuff removed.  Stop with the personal attacks and discuss the topic, thanks.

[Shin Magmus]

     Guys, here's what's going to happen if Dark Armor gets reworked and Dark Regeneration gets changed: overcomplication that nobody wants.  Picture this: Dark Armor... but with needlessly convoluted If:Then conditional statements.  Dark Regeneration nerfed but it grants +End on targets hit... If: Stunned.  Cloak of Fear buffed numerically a bit but now it also adds Negative Energy damage procs to your attacks... If: Terrorized.  The power will still suck, but now people will start pairing it with Dark Melee more... and taking Invoke Panic (vomits) to try and activate the condition.  Arsenal Control but as an Armor. 

 

     One dev is feverishly taking notes right now, but this is an example of why you don't actually want Dark Armor reworks from this team.

[Neogumbercules]

Hate to sound negative but I agree with the folks worried about changes to DA being done. They will absolutely overcomplicate it and change the feel of the set. At times it feels like their aim is to shave all the edges off until we're left with watered down mediocrity, or stuff that only feels strong when specific conditions are met as @ShinMagmus suggested.

 

My first character way back in Issue 4 was a Claws/DA scrapper and I've enjoyed dark armor ever since.

 

I agree DA is a pretty underwhelming set, but I also have an S/L soft-capped perma-hasten DB/DA scrapper that absolutely rips. Of course I only use half the powerset, which sucks.

 

The only changes I would be in favor of would be to give DA KB protection and straight up buff cloak of fear and oppressive gloom numerically without changing them. The self rez... I dunno. DA doesn't really need a tier 9 godmode power. I would turn it into a Diablo 3 style cheat-death auto power. When you are defeated, you instantly unleash a blast of darkness that stuns all enemies in an x foot radius (stacks with oppressive gloom) and restores half your health. Give it an unenhanceable  internal cooldown of 90 seconds or something.

 

Then I'd call it good to go.

 

The only reason I wouldn't change Dark Regeneration is because I flat out reject the notion that this game needs to be balanced without consideration of the existence of IOs, and therefore, DR is pretty good with IOs.

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Neogumbercules said:

Hate to sound negative but I agree with the folks worried about changes to DA being done. They will absolutely overcomplicate it and change the feel of the set. At times it feels like their aim is to shave all the edges off until we're left with watered down mediocrity, or stuff that only feels strong when specific conditions are met as @ShinMagmus suggested.

 

My first character way back in Issue 4 was a Claws/DA scrapper and I've enjoyed dark armor ever since.

 

I agree DA is a pretty underwhelming set, but I also have an S/L soft-capped perma-hasten DB/DA scrapper that absolutely rips. Of course I only use half the powerset, which sucks.

 

The only changes I would be in favor of would be to give DA KB protection and straight up buff cloak of fear and oppressive gloom numerically without changing them. The self rez... I dunno. DA doesn't really need a tier 9 godmode power. I would turn it into a Diablo 3 style cheat-death auto power. When you are defeated, you instantly unleash a blast of darkness that stuns all enemies in an x foot radius (stacks with oppressive gloom) and restores half your health. Give it an unenhanceable  internal cooldown of 90 seconds or something.

 

Then I'd call it good to go.

 

The only reason I wouldn't change Dark Regeneration is because I flat out reject the notion that this game needs to be balanced without consideration of the existence of IOs, and therefore, DR is pretty good with IOs.

 

As a DA toon was my frist 50 on live (and I've thus recreated that toon about 3 times here on Homecoming) I have to agree. Please leave it alone. Don't want to see it unncessarily gutted due to "/powercreep" worries.