looking for a brute I can work with

[Groundworm]

I've recently returned to Homecoming after awhile, and I'm kinda lost. My highest level char (fire/atomic blaster) is 40, and I had to stop playing him cause he dies. A lot. 

 

I realize this is vague, but I'm looking for a toon that is a capable mix of damage output and survival. I've heard brutes have that going for them. I'm working on leveling my rad/shield brute, who feels lackluster in damage output and also kinda squishy. I'm not sure if ST or AoE attacks are better given mob density in the game. When I put myself in places where I can make good use of AoE attacks, there are usually too many mobs and I die. But killing targets one at a time is obviously much slower. I shy away from the idea of a tanker because last time I played one, I found the damage output lacking and was kinda bored with the AT.

 

Primary power set, I've heard good things about battle axe and I'm curious about titan weapons. Secondary power set, I've also heard good things about bio armor and rad armor, but I find it hard to build thematically around those two. Generally, is it safer to build around defense or resistance? Which primary/secondary powersets might serve my purposesr?

 

Thanks so much for any guidance- I really appreciate it.

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, Groundworm said:

I realize this is vague, but I'm looking for a toon that is a capable mix of damage output and survival. I've heard brutes have that going for them. I'm working on leveling my rad/shield brute, who feels lackluster in damage output and also kinda squishy.

 

Oh gosh...Rad/Shield has high endurance demands (Rad) and no way to generate it inherently (Shield). That is your central problem. Shield is great in terms of survivability, once you push your defenses up, particularly by purchasing the two +3% Def IO enhancements. As memory serves, there is some limited endurance boosting and healing you can get via procs in the right spots in Rad Melee. In fact, I have a Rad/Shield Scrapper--Shield Charge is more potent on a Scrapper than a Brute because of the nature of the pseudo-pet it is implemented as.

 

 You want survivability and damage, go Tanker. 

 

Brute starts off great, not needing damage  enhancements slotted to deal out damage early on. But then you plateau, especially as you have to start pumping enhancements into armor powers so you can survive. Tankers easily max out their survability and then can turn their efforts to improving their damage output. Moreover, they have enhanced area with their area attacks, able to hit more targets. And since you're going to survive, if you do make a Shield Tanker, you have more guys around you further increasing your damage via Against All Odds.

 

Oh, and I did I mention being wanted by teams? 

 

Yeah, you came to the Brute forum and are being told to play a Tanker. It's a regular occurrence for good reasons (heavily denied when the matter comes up by the usual suspects doing so). 

[Erratic1]

5 hours ago, Groundworm said:

Primary power set, I've heard good things about battle axe and I'm curious about titan weapons. Secondary power set, I've also heard good things about bio armor and rad armor, but I find it hard to build thematically around those two. Generally, is it safer to build around defense or resistance? Which primary/secondary powersets might serve my purposesr?

 

Okay, now that I've given you the skinny, if you are stll on board with playing a Brute...

 

1. A theme also involves one of the origins. For my most recent scrapper, I wanted to play Ninjitsu for the crit from stealth ability, and I had enjoyed War Mace on a previous WM/Shield character. But a ninja with a hammer?  How to reconcile that?  Ninjitsu already is verging on spiritual and hence magical territory. So I made him into a collector of mystic artifacts, less for the sake of it than as a means to flummox non-magical types with unexpected abilities. Ghosthammer is a thug, but a thug who became a henchman for an actual magical villain, learned the ropes, and then disposed of his former master in favor of pursuing his own ends. My Rad/Shield scrapper? He's got an atomic shield inherited from his hero grandfather and has the Technology origin. Bio? Are you a mutant? Perhaps you were modified by Science. 
2. You can build about either Defense or Resistance, but there are tradeoffs. Defense has the upside of not only preventing damage but also secondary effects like endurance drain as those require being hit to occur. Resistance has the perk of not having a lot of effects which lower its effectiveness, leading to a cascade to failure and massive damage coming in. It also resists said effects. Then there are mixed and layered sets like Bio, Rad, and arguably Invulnerability which mix and match between the two and bolster via other means (healing and absorb shields). While any armor and be paired with any offensive set and a workable character made, choosing a combo where the two sets support the other's shortcomings is where you get start to push things to the next level. Got an offensive set which is hungry for endurance? Pair with an armor set which provides endurance. Don't have a heal in your armor set? Grab an offensive set with healing.
3. Battle Axe and Titan Weapons both will pair nicely with either Bio or Radiation Armor. Want a theme? Titan Weapon + Radiation Armor, take the Technology origin, and costume yourself as a mech. Or as a cyborg if you want to have some human bits showing. Or perhaps you're a bioengineered soldier from a post-apocalyptic alternate universe to explain your Science origin based Battle Axe/Bio character.

[ShimmerDoll]

I've gotten a few brutes to 50, (SS, Elec Melee, Katana, Street Justice/EA/WP/Invuln) that are much faster at clearing everything than any tank I've played (or friends have played) or  a scrapper. Only Blasters really can keep the pace I enjoy playing a Brute at. I don't understand why anyone would want to play a tank over a brute if they're committed to a brute from the start, other than if they want to group with people who partake in contrived camaraderie and attempted jests that make playing solo preferable, but that's my experience. I usually like more meaningful interactions than randoms or some big SG where people are reduced to their role, like a job.  It's extremely rare to find a genuine connection. For me, as a level 50+ Brute facing the largest spawns possible, I can go  AFK  to receive a delivery at the door and still withstand enemy attacks without issue. I should mention that my builds aren't optimal and I don't have a lot of influence/infamy to buy the best anything, so I'm not playing with the best numbers. What more could one ask for?  Not that I'm saying tanks are bad, it's a different experience. Brutes are pre Disney Star Wars, Tanks move at a pace reminiscent of Star Trek. Some days you want one over the other.  Another way to compare it, at least for me (just my own opinion), Brutes are why I play games, for fun. Tanks at a point become a job and that's probably why I don't have a lot of money in this game.

 

I'm not attempting to cause trouble with what the person said above, it just bothers me how discouraging it's written, and not entirely true, Brutes are extremely fun and there are no bumps in the road in survivability once you have even the bare minimum of slots in everything and certainly not in damage. There is no plateau I've ever experienced. Build for resist as you easily clear everything. One to fifty on each Brute I've played has been a flash.  The game gets boring and old if you just keep making tanks over brutes, blasters over sentinels, or whatever class over another. It's already at the point where we need more costume parts because there are a lot of modern-day options missing and all the female stuff is too bulky which limits it all, even back on Live. I love this game more than newer games I play,  and can only hope they add more to it.

 

Also, sorry if this is not clear, I'm a terrible writer. English isn't even my first language though I've been using it for most of my life.

Edited April 20 by ShimmerDoll

[Snarky]

On 4/18/2024 at 3:08 PM, Groundworm said:

I've recently returned to Homecoming after awhile, and I'm kinda lost. My highest level char (fire/atomic blaster) is 40, and I had to stop playing him cause he dies. A lot. 

 

I realize this is vague, but I'm looking for a toon that is a capable mix of damage output and survival. I've heard brutes have that going for them. I'm working on leveling my rad/shield brute, who feels lackluster in damage output and also kinda squishy. I'm not sure if ST or AoE attacks are better given mob density in the game. When I put myself in places where I can make good use of AoE attacks, there are usually too many mobs and I die. But killing targets one at a time is obviously much slower. I shy away from the idea of a tanker because last time I played one, I found the damage output lacking and was kinda bored with the AT.

 

Primary power set, I've heard good things about battle axe and I'm curious about titan weapons. Secondary power set, I've also heard good things about bio armor and rad armor, but I find it hard to build thematically around those two. Generally, is it safer to build around defense or resistance? Which primary/secondary powersets might serve my purposesr?

 

Thanks so much for any guidance- I really appreciate it.

For starters I would go with a rock solid set like Invul, if you can fit that into a concept.  Aim for a Hyperstrike build.  Although Invul with just SO enhancers is dam good.

 

If you dont mind the crash Super Strength is awesome.  part of this is the giant +to hit that is part of the set.  The overloaded DPS makes up for it being S/L.  If shit is not res to S/L it is insane.  

 

Claws and Savage are both fast hard hitting sets.

 

Energy Melee is a solid ST performer, and now has decent AoE

 

Dark Melee is a very hard hitting ST set with a toolkit of heal/+end/to hit debuffs going for it.  The pairing of Dark/Invul will make one of the toughest Brutes walking.  Dark has little AoE and some people hate the melee cone.  

 

There are some sets I would avoid, combo sets and gimmick sets do not do well late game.  I have run Kinetic melee at 50.  do not do that lol.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

There are some sets I would avoid, combo sets and gimmick sets do not do well late game.  I have run Kinetic melee at 50.  do not do that lol.

 

While I would NEVER suggest KM to anyone, you do know I am currently working up a KM Tanker.  Why? Apparently I want to suffer.

[wjrasmussen]

On 4/18/2024 at 3:08 PM, Groundworm said:

I've recently returned to Homecoming after awhile, and I'm kinda lost. My highest level char (fire/atomic blaster) is 40, and I had to stop playing him cause he dies. A lot. 

 

I realize this is vague, but I'm looking for a toon that is a capable mix of damage output and survival. I've heard brutes have that going for them. I'm working on leveling my rad/shield brute, who feels lackluster in damage output and also kinda squishy. I'm not sure if ST or AoE attacks are better given mob density in the game. When I put myself in places where I can make good use of AoE attacks, there are usually too many mobs and I die. But killing targets one at a time is obviously much slower. I shy away from the idea of a tanker because last time I played one, I found the damage output lacking and was kinda bored with the AT.

 

Primary power set, I've heard good things about battle axe and I'm curious about titan weapons. Secondary power set, I've also heard good things about bio armor and rad armor, but I find it hard to build thematically around those two. Generally, is it safer to build around defense or resistance? Which primary/secondary powersets might serve my purposesr?

 

Thanks so much for any guidance- I really appreciate it.

Try a battle-axe will power for fun.

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

While I would NEVER suggest KM to anyone, you do know I am currently working up a KM Tanker.  Why? Apparently I want to suffer.

That is what I have, the "joke" wasa a Tank-Mage.  And i made it a undead sorcerous Invul/KM that stood around looking like it was casting spells.  It wasnt horrid....and it achieved the look....but not crushing any records for anything.

[Bjorn Stoutarm]

15 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

Try a battle-axe will power for fun.

 

I second BA / WP Brute. I'm relatively new to Homecoming myself, and that's what I'm running as my Main character: mostly based on theme. I ran this as a Tank on Live, and didn't take him very far, but as Brute it works well. I'm in my low 30s right now and can handle fairly large mobs.

 

It's a good mix of defense, resistance, and endurance management. I still faceplant sometimes, but found the combination very satisfying, especially post level-22.

 

For this character, I included Hasten and Rune of Protection. That has helped keep the pace up.

[Snarky]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:40 AM, Bjorn Stoutarm said:

 

I second BA / WP Brute. I'm relatively new to Homecoming myself, and that's what I'm running as my Main character: mostly based on theme. I ran this as a Tank on Live, and didn't take him very far, but as Brute it works well. I'm in my low 30s right now and can handle fairly large mobs.

 

It's a good mix of defense, resistance, and endurance management. I still faceplant sometimes, but found the combination very satisfying, especially post level-22.

 

For this character, I included Hasten and Rune of Protection. That has helped keep the pace up.

when you build up some ban and want to run at 50 i would re roll this as a BA / Invul and use a hyperstrike invul build.  at 50 invul does everything willpower does and more.  a lot more survivable.  invul brutes can serve as main tanks in master of attempts in most TF/SF if you know the game.

[ZorkNemesis]

I'm not usually a fan of Brutes but my current project is a Dark/Fire Brute and i'm thoroughly enjoying it at level 40 so far.  Not the most survivable Brute yet, Fiery Aura isn't known for it's defenses, but if I can survive the alpha strike most everything melts, figuratively and sometimes literally.  Generally, one Soul Drain followed up with a Burn is enough to level entire mobs and then I can pick off stragglers with Dark's good ST damage.  Siphon Life and Healing Flames help me stay alive with Consume shortening downtime, the combo leans pretty hard into the notion of "the best defense is a good offense."

 

The only other Brute I got to 50 is a Rad/Dark which I consider a strong mix of offense and defense.  Endurance was an issue to the point where I had to do some odd slotting things to not run out of blue bar every fight but once I got everything in place and got my Cardiac Alpha slotted most issues went away.  The combo is super tanky to nearly all damage (Toxic is a little troublesome though) and Rad Melee's inherit splash damage with the Contaminated effect makes quick work of most groups.

[Maelwys]

On 4/20/2024 at 9:35 PM, ShimmerDoll said:

I've gotten a few brutes to 50, (SS, Elec Melee, Katana, Street Justice/EA/WP/Invuln) that are much faster at clearing everything than any tank I've played (or friends have played) or  a scrapper. Only Blasters really can keep the pace I enjoy playing a Brute at. I don't understand why anyone would want to play a tank over a brute if they're committed to a brute from the start

The short version is that there were a bunch of changes in i26 page 4 that raised Tanker damage scale and made most Tanker AoEs hit a *lot* more targets than the same ability in a Scrapper or Brute... resulting in it being possible for Tankers to plow through a large pack of mobs much faster than a Brute, with better survivability and without worrying about Fury.
Power-for-Power against a single target? Brutes still beat Tankers. But unfortunately these days much of the "pushing the envelope" stuff (AKA virtual anatomy measuring contests) revolve around  min-maxed-fully-IOed-and-T4-Incarnated builds either steamrolling through entire maps of mobs in the fastest time (where Tankers beat Brutes), or downing one big tough target in the fastest time (where Scrappers and Stalkers and a considerable number of "squishy" ATs beat Brutes). So it's currently difficult to find a powerset combination that shines brighter on a Brute than it does on a different Melee AT.
That's not to say that Brutes aren't fun to play; but after you hit a certain threshold (basically level 50 with ATOs) they're seldom mechanically optimal. And there are a bunch of folk out there who enjoy min-maxxing and playing the most powerful version of each toon they roll up.

IIRC Battle Axe is one of the standout sets actually - it has a few AoEs which don't really benefit much from the Tanker radius buff (although the lower target cap on Axe Cyclone and Pendulum is still a bit annoying) and if you pair it with a secondary that has some decent AoE damage output like FA or Rad (neither of which benefit much from the Scrapper or Tanker inherents) then even better.

[Sovera]

Some of my best Brutes were EM/Fire Armor where EM's mediocre AoE was shored by Fire Armor and EM's already high damage was further pushed by Fire Armor. Claws/Fire Brute still has my record for doing regular content.

 

Other(s) were the new Stone Armor that does not involve Granite. Just one minute shorter than the Claws/Fire was a Rad/Stone Armor, but cruising lazily, impervious, not needing inspirations, near immune to debuffs. Rad Melee did get nerfed since but there are other pairings such as Fire Melee though Fire Melee would only give one AoE and semi-late at that.

 

... I long for a Claws/Stone, I really do, but I'm not doing it on the other ATs that have it but have no agro aura.

[Gobbledigook]

Invuln is a good secondary. It give good defense and resists. It also has +to hit which is good for any primary set. Invuln also gives +max health which for a Brute is much higher than Scrappers/stalkers.

 

You can build trying to match a Tanker with resists and sacrificing damage 🤣 or just have Scrapper resists/defenses, as they don't seem to struggle surviving and pump that damage up 😎. You will not out damage a Scrapper (but you will a Tanker on a hard target) but if you are in a team with buffers you will benefit considerably more than a Scrapper/Stalker with a higher resist cap and near match Tanker survival.

 

Don't make the mistake the usual suspects make by trying to match Tanker resists, play it as a damage dealer if you like, with potentially better survival than Scrappers/Stalkers.

 

Play however and whatever you like. I am playing a damage orientated Defender at the moment and having a lot of fun, which is why we are here lol.

Edited April 23 by Gobbledigook

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

I'm watching you. . . .  Be nice!

 

Edited April 23 by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Troo]

@Groundworm Elec Melee / Invul Brutes feel exciting. (just skip Jacobs Ladder, its meh). If you want a brute that packs a wallop, Energy Melee / Invul is straight forward and will help you get your bearings until the altitus kicks in.

[Erratic1]

The notion Brutes cannot be built for both survivability and damage is erroneous, as demonstrated by dozens upon dozens of builds posted in these forums. No sacrifice has to be made to achieve one at the expense of the other.

[Gobbledigook]

 I think they said that you don't have to try to cap resists to Tanker levels on a Brute. You can be happy with Scrapper+ levels of survival and bump the damage up more if you so choose. 

 

As i have one of the top Brute pylon times i know what a Brute can do. Nice for others to know that they can have survival and damage and are in a good place vs Tankers/Scrappers  ☺️

 

Brutes are very flexible. They can be built to near Scrapper damage or near Tanker survival or just take any ground in between. As long as they can not do both at the same time, that would be OP.

 

As with any build though, adding more procs for damage will sacrifice you set bonuses.

[Erratic1]

Pointing to surviving a Pylon (something Scrappers, Dominators....well, any AT can do) as some sort of hallmark of survivability is a notion a person can buy into if they wish. Actual missions, taskforces, and trials are what the game is comprised of.

 

Maelwys gave a quite clear and concise statement on the state of Brutes vis-a-vis the latter game. Doesn't mean you cannot have fun levelling one, playing TFs, etc. But you're not there to tank, and certainly you don't do the best damage--other ATs have those preserves exclusively. You're along for the ride. If you're fine with that, no problem.

[Gobbledigook]

Surviving a pylon? It referred to Brute as damage dealer not for survival purposes. I don't think a Pylon has ever been used as a survival benchmark that i am aware of. Usually TFs etc do that.