Advice sought for a "Tanky Mastermind"

[biostem]

I want to build a MM that can lead from the front.  I don't really need help with the primary set, but am instead seeking suggestions on what secondary to take.  Let me outline a few things I want for this character:

 

1. 24x7 status protection

2. Some defense-granting powers for myself and my minions, not to mention as LotG mules

3. I don't want to have to wait to accumulate a lot of inf to buy necessary IOs to achieve this, nor do I want to have to wait until I've unlocked Incarnates to get said status protection.

 

Given teh above, what are your thoughts?  My current front-runner secondaries are force field, sonic, electrical affinity, or traps.  I was also considering a combination of cj/acro and rune of protection to provide the status protection, but that'd require a lot of powers invested into the respective pools...

[Xandyr]

What primary are you thinking?

 

 Kinda sounds like you want FF. It's relatively "cheap", doesn't require a ton of slots, can mule all the LotGs/shield wall/kismet/steadfast,  and now does -resist. And damping bubble gives great debuff resistance. 

 

 On a side note, I have a necro/pain that's tough as nails. I find myself going ahead of my group because it's that sturdy.

 And it's been a long time since I've played her, but Demons/EA is extremely sturdy.

[Nathic69]

If you want to lead from the front I'd suggest Time, you won't be able to protect from hold, stun and knockdown but everything else if slotted right should have some satus protection, I'd recommend demons or mercs as primary, demons are good at following and that helps a lot when in defensive mode, Mercs are good because LotG in T9 and because perma serum basically makes them immune to mez and super tanky plus certain slotting makes them even more immune to status protection.

 

I play my merc and demon/time as a tank and never die and i always charge in first, just make sure pets are somewhat close before , Time's Juncture doesn't go off when your CC'd that i've noticed, if time isn't your fancy then its Ele Affinity for the Faraday Cage for the most status protection, but FF and traps isn't bad either.

 

Rune of Protection isn't really worth taking imo, it only has 1/3 uptime and can't reduce recharge of it and if playing tankermind right it shouldn't matter with or without

[tidge]

On 4/30/2024 at 9:19 PM, biostem said:

I want to build a MM that can lead from the front.  I don't really need help with the primary set, but am instead seeking suggestions on what secondary to take.  Let me outline a few things I want for this character:

 

1. 24x7 status protection

2. Some defense-granting powers for myself and my minions, not to mention as LotG mules

3. I don't want to have to wait to accumulate a lot of inf to buy necessary IOs to achieve this, nor do I want to have to wait until I've unlocked Incarnates to get said status protection.

 

I find Status Protection to be less important than Defense values high enough to be capped against +N enemy Lts. and Bosses. I assume FF and Time can do this; I know Robotics/Traps can do this.

 

 I definitely think the primary plays into the concern because the henchmen will need to be doing the Bodyguard thing for a mezzed MM.

 

My Robotics/Traps MM can absolutely "lead from the front". The squad has high enough defenses that enemies are pretty much always in the 1-in-20 chance ToHit range... Protector Bots toss an additional shield AND launch seeker drones to debuff enemy ToHit. The Supremacy and global Aura pieces supplement the Force Field Generator's effects. The other items in Traps either draw aggro (Acid Mortar) or keep enemies occupied (Caltrops, Poison Trap).

 

The only status effects I regularly encounter that bother my MM enough to pop an inspiration are:

1. The long duration Fear from Jack In Irons Skull Stare
2. The long duration stuns from Malta

The first case is a Giant Monster, the henchmen often don't need my direct involvement for the full duration of the fear... it's just that it is soooo looong. The second is slightly more problematic when the stun hits before the MM has done anything else against two-or-more full spawns of Malta. Malta is otherwise easy to handle/distract with the Traps set. In contrast I never worry about the holds or sleeps.

[TheSpiritFox]

Bots and Thugs with Traps, Force field, or Time for starters. Traps and FF both give you defense and mez protection, time does not but time gives enough defense and -tohit and slows to negate an absolute crapton of incoming damage. Ive found my time characters just dont need rune of protection. Farsight is just...godly. Especially for masterminds who benefit more from the tohit it grants than almost anything else. 

 

Demons, Mercs, and Necro with /elec are also incredibly tanky. Elec provides the mez protection including knockback which is rare for MM henchmen to get at all. Works well with demons and necro which like melee, and mercs which like to sit wherever you tell them and shoot at anything in sight range. 

 

My Bots/Traps and Mercs/Elec have both soloed GMs. The bots/traps can solo anything, the elec leans on envenomed daggers along with power boosted discharge and shock in rotation to drop some things regen enough to kill it. 

 

But I did manage to fit provoke with a few slots on my /elec so I can actually tank tank serious things with it, like lord recluse. 

[Sanguinesun]

1. Cheap

2. Status Protections

3. Defense.

 

Given the conditions placed on this and your focus on defense, Force Field seems the only real option best meeting your secondary choice wishes.  

[Neiska]

Some secondaries have Status Protection of varying degrees- Forcefield, Sonic Resonance, Electrical Affinity, Empathy, Pain Domination, Thermal Radiation, and Traps.

 

Most of these (Sonic, Electrical, Thermal)) are Resistance sets. Empathy is a Healing set, Pain Domination is kind of a hybrid of Healing and Resistance. Traps is a little of everything - (some buffs, some debuffs, some DEF.) This makes Forcefield the only DEF focused set that has Status Protection. Kinetics does have status protection, but it's single target (last I checked anyway.)

 

So if you want both DEF buffs and Status protection, this really only leaves Forcefield and Traps.

 

Now I will say, that Demons/Electric and Robots/Time can be "extremely" durable. But those don't fit your guidelines.

 

But one single power does deserve a special mention. One power that by itself can drastically improve the life of (some) pets, at least where solo play is concerned.

 

Group Fly.

 

Many enemies don't have full ranged attack chains. A couple do, but most do not. Even fewer have -fly powers. This means right out of the box, flying pets face drastically reduced number of attacks. Now this does depend on the enemies in question - (example, Arachnos tends to have a lot of ranged attacks, between spiderbots, mace abilities, widows, etc) - but also the kind of map in question. Maps such as tunnels, caves, or some office maps have low ceilings, where group fly won't do much for you. But, for those maps where you and your pets can hover just out of reach, no other single power can really match just how effective it is at protecting your pets.

 

This only works on ranged pets, meaning Robots and Mercs.

 

So a Robot or Merc/FF MM with group fly can end up pretty dang tough. Between Robots and Mercs, I would recommend Mercs, as FF would be more effective with their new Serum, making your flying pets have both good DEF and RES, status protection, and all ranged attacks.

 

I don't recommend Group Fly in groups, as most people dislike it. So I personally consider Group Fly a "solo only" tool.

 

Hope this breakdown helps!

Edited May 6 by Neiska

[kelika2]

My advice to you is that 99.9% of Power Pool based characters I make always end up getting deleted or rebuilt to not be power pool based.

Somewhere down the line Provoke always having a 5% chance to miss, 5 targets max will eat away at you.  and when you find out -75% range sounds amazing but most enemy ranged attacks are 80ft and oh god math calculator app no wait google thats still 20ft after the debuff which is still pretty big and you wont be herding up enemies for your pets cones and aoes.

 

But your best bet is probably bot/ff.  your bubble(20), their bubble(12) will get going early enough.  id recommend traps but sometimes FFG likes to herkadunkadiddlyderp and not always be near you or just be far enough away to rage.

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

Somewhere down the line Provoke always having a 5% chance to miss, 5 targets max will eat away at you.  and when you find out -75% range sounds amazing but most enemy ranged attacks are 80ft and oh god math calculator app no wait google thats still 20ft after the debuff

Provoke does not apply a -range component. That it unique to Taunt. So MM's using it benefit more by relying on corner pulling techniques.

[tidge]

I found Provoke to be far inferior at grabbing enemy aggro than simply targeting enemies with some sort of AoE attack (from the MM).

• The number of possible targets is almost always higher in the MM attack than Provoke's cap of 5 targets
• Provoke requires Accuracy slotting, it is not an auto-hit
• Slotting an AoE ranged attack, as opposed to a "threat power",  offers hella-more options for both set bonuses and enhancement characteristics

The last bullet point is key IMO. There is IIRC only one piece (each, in the two level 50 Threat Enhancement sets) than includes Accuracy. No Range AoE includes "threat". but there is a %-Res debuff piece in Annihilation, and also the %Immobilization in the Frozen Blast set... either can allow an enemy debuff or mezz to "linger" for a bit as a sort of pseudo-taunt.

 

IMO: It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that an MM using Provoke performs better than a MM tossing an attack.

 

 

[Bonkleberry]

I have a Tankermind that I have "led" through a 54/8 before without dying once. To answer your questions:

 

1. Traps, Force Field, or Sonic are the only three sets that can offer you that. Good luck, though, because what they offer is not strong enough to prevent being mezzed during some alpha strikes, which you should be absorbing if you are being a Tankermind.

2. Force Field and Traps, really. Storm Summoning, Dark Miasma, and Cold Domination to a minor extent providing defense for you.

3. Not happening, but I guess Force Field can be on the cheaper side of things.

 

So, in conclusion, as many have said already, you seem to be looking for Force Field as a secondary.

 

However, I have so insights for you, if you want them. All you need to survive as a Tankermind is the following:

 

1. Approach the defense soft cap for yourself as much as you can.

This is a given for most good builds and can be accomplished with set bonuses and pool powers.

 

2. A group heal (Radiant Aura, Healing Aura, etc.) or high minion healing (I think only Beasts and Necromancy can do this).

Bodyguard mode can do a ton of damage to your pets, and it bypasses pet defenses. Bodyguard mode is also the best defense any Mastermind can hope to put together. No matter how much defense or resistance you give your pets, an alpha strike you absorb can kill all of your pets easily. Group heals or pets self healing make that damage go away. Group heals are particularly potent because, with all six pets summoned, damage is split 7 ways among you and your pets, but your healing is not split, therefore your group heal is like a 7x boosted ST heal. My group heal heals for 223 every 3 seconds, that translates to about 520 healing a second by spamming my heal in high damage situations.

 

3. As much Mez resistance as you can get.

As a Mastermind, you really do not have a reliable source of 24/7 Status Protection for yourself outside of Force Field, Sonic, or Traps, but you do not need it. If you slot at least 5 purple sets with 10% mez resistance, mezzes do not last long on you. You can get more from other sets, enhancements, or powers. Most mezzes on my character only last a second. I find just keeping a handful of Break Frees on me for oh crap moments works fine. Mezzes usually do not phase me at all, and I only ever run into mez issues against Talons of Vengeance, Circle of Thorns, and Malta--those issues are easily solved with some minor tactical planning and understanding how the mob mezzes work.

 

4. Debuffs and a ton of control.

Just taking one look through Mastermind secondaries will show you that buffing ourselves is not something we excel at. We do, however, have a ton of debuffs and, when you consider epic power pools, a ton of control. Masterminds can lock down a group of enemies with the right power selections. Think playing a controller, but with freedom to spam control AoEs since you can survive continued aggro. I have so much control on my Mastermind, that it is a common problem for my pets to stop attacking and doing damage, because I have everything controlled and nobody is taking damage, so Defensive AI kicks in and thinks I am not fighting anymore.

 

All of that said, auto-hit AoEs will always be the bane of your existence as a Tankermind, as they will melt your pets as they both take their own damage, and split damage from you taking damage. This makes tanking some GMs or AVs (particularly Eochai or the Jade Spider) not possible without support. A Mastermind is also incapable of out damaging most other ATs, so, without a taunt, they cannot hold aggro. Tankerminds are not main tanks and only work on self-sufficient teams (as a fight starter) or solo.

[victusfate]

My tankiest masterminds 

 

bots/time, bots/cold, & 

demons/elec 

 

The bots self heal with the repair bot and rarely get hit with their defense. Demons/elec works as long as the demons are fighting in your Tesla cage. I kinda wish it was more like thermal shielding.

 

Speaking of:

demons /thermal, /pain, /nature and /sonic should all be tanky although /sonic doesn't have any healing to top off injuries

Edited June 3 by victusfate

[Force Redux]

Bots/FF

 

Bots come with thier own healing, plus they add defence to The Mastermind themselves. And that are all ranged, so combined with group fly and repel (depending on the map) nothing gets close to melee. 

 

Slot efficient. Blooms early.