Kaeladin Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Hey all: After weeks worth of iterating and work, I'm very pleased to present to all of you my Scrapper version of Kezeal's DPS spreadsheet, but modeled under two (realistic) recharge conditions and containing a BOATLOAD of notes/observations based on both statistics and playtesting. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1av2vWL9UVgGw183BbjFNweJze7N5P3Tn8tYSppdFQgE/edit?usp=sharing Also has some applicablity for brutes and tankers, though there are some notable differences in their versions of the kits. Not applicable to stalkers. Enjoy! 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Fascinating stuff! Thank you! So Havoc Punch is as terrible as I thought, that's good to know. Jacob's Ladder isn't nearly as bad as I thought, and Thunderstrike isn't as good as I thought. Good stuff. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Nifty. I'll be spending more time digging into this. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_nomind Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Don't we know someone who can sticky this? No-Set Builds: Tanker Scrapper Brute Stalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrate Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 It doesn't look like you're calculating ArcanaTime in the spreadsheet. Without it, very fast attacks are disproportionately powerful. It also throws attack chains out of whack, fitting more attacks into a given time slice than you can actually accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeladin Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 I did explicitly state that Arcanatime is calculated. The info in each of the sets reflects the tooltip info for their times, but if you look at the actual rotations modeled you'll notice that they're using Arcanatime values for their moves in the actual attack chain modeling section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrate Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 So you did, I apologize. I clearly didn't RTFM. I was looking at the info section and not the chain section. I worry that displaying a non-AT DPA could allow people to make incorrect assumptions, just like I did. Not trying to dis the work you've put into this at all, mind you. The spreadsheet and rotation calculator are really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auroxis Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Don't we know someone who can sticky this? I think a sticky that links to this thread, kez's sheet, and the pylon thread would be nice. Call it the DPS Science thread or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxy Brain Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Claws being that low is suprising.... doesn't it have amazing actual results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Dang TW is nuts, guess I'm going to have to roll a TW/Bio. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erratic1 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 What is the Moonbeam entry under Radiation Melee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 What is the Moonbeam entry under Radiation Melee? Looks like a soul mastery power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeladin Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Claws being that low is suprising.... doesn't it have amazing actual results? Please read the Special Cases section for Claws (and Dual Blades, Dark Melee, etc.). I specifically stated this in the FAQ and the actual recharge condition sheets themselves. Claws is only low in this sheet because of low base DPS values on the moves of its chain, but that section has the numbers with follow-up stack(s) calculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeladin Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 What is the Moonbeam entry under Radiation Melee? Looks like a soul mastery power. Oops, yeah this was an old entry from when I was testing out fast snipe (the current version, not the test one) to see if it'd be worth the investment for a set like radiation melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Whats your overall thought on sliding in things like Moonbeam and Gloom? My only experience in play was with Spines, which appears to be stuck redrawing its spines and lowering the added value of Gloom. In my head they look like an okay filler choice for low single target sets that lack redraw, but I've not run all the numbers. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbledygook Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 So, I should roll a Claws Scrapper, is what you're saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 So, I should roll a Claws Scrapper, is what you're saying? I wont speak for him, but as a Claws user, I will say that once the recharge goes up, and the Follow-Up starts stacking, you wont be -dissapointed- in the Claws kit. Its fast, smooth, fluid, and packs additional utility in the form of KD, Range, and the ability to slot -RES procs without wrecking the attack chain badly. It is substantially better than its raw DPS output indicates, both in feel and in play. No, you wont be a single-target Pylon Champion, but you will have a decent single target and AOE kit. And its fun. I love some of the weapon substitutions, too. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekimmak Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Part of me wants to ask "What sort of IO build would you need for *insert one of my scrapper combos here* to pull this off?", but I always find that optimal builds sacrifice concept for function, and... eh... I like Eviscerate. Even if it's not good for it's activation time, I like the backflip superslash, because it hits hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbledygook Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 So, I should roll a Claws Scrapper, is what you're saying? I wont speak for him, but as a Claws user, I will say that once the recharge goes up, and the Follow-Up starts stacking, you wont be -dissapointed- in the Claws kit. Its fast, smooth, fluid, and packs additional utility in the form of KD, Range, and the ability to slot -RES procs without wrecking the attack chain badly. It is substantially better than its raw DPS output indicates, both in feel and in play. No, you wont be a single-target Pylon Champion, but you will have a decent single target and AOE kit. And its fun. I love some of the weapon substitutions, too. I had a Claws/Sr back around Pre-IO's that could handle himself just fine against AV's, just gotta decide which secondary (no Regen, until they make IH a toggle again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I think Claws/WP sits in the conceptual slot that Claws/WP once did. Bio is also an option, but it takes more attention than WP. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbledygook Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I think Claws/WP sits in the conceptual slot that Claws/WP once did. Bio is also an option, but it takes more attention than WP. I think you mean claws/wp sits in the spot that claws/reg once did. That's what I'm thinking. Guess I'll go solicit advice from the build masters now. Haven't played WP since before the shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbledygook Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hey all: After weeks worth of iterating and work, I'm very pleased to present to all of you my Scrapper version of Kezeal's DPS spreadsheet, but modeled under two (realistic) recharge conditions and containing a BOATLOAD of notes/observations based on both statistics and playtesting. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1av2vWL9UVgGw183BbjFNweJze7N5P3Tn8tYSppdFQgE/edit?usp=sharing Also has some applicablity for brutes and tankers, though there are some notable differences in their versions of the kits. Not applicable to stalkers. Enjoy! Take my INF!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabet Soup II Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 So with Hemorage being so good for stalkers does it make Savage a top tier stalker set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeladin Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Yep. Savage melee is extremely strong on stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck-Smokes-Quack Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 So based on this a theoretical "top end toon" Katana > Martial Arts? Mostly due to the ability to slot the -res procs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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