A non-police Trainer NPC in King's Row

[mechahamham]

Attitudes towards Police and Law Enforcement have changed a lot since 2004. Blue Shield's backstory seems to actively play into this, with some extremely questionable decisions on his part ultimately leading to the rise of the Clockwork King.

 

Quote

Blue Steel is responsible for the 'birth' of the villainous Clockwork King. After tracking down a suspect involved in a police homicide committed by robots controlled via telekinesis, Blue Steel beat the man nearly to death and left him for dead. This man's body was never recovered, and was beaten beyond repair. However, the Clockwork King's brain survived the encounter, and he used his powerful telekinetic powers to build himself a clockwork body, leading to the rise of the Clockwork King.

 

from https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Blue_Steel

 

This CAN BE a very charged topic, so let me preface this by saying that this is a fantasy city in a fantasy world. No flesh-and-blood human beings live in Paragon City.

 

However, lots of vigilantes and rogues DO live in Paragon City these days, or at least maintain residences there. I can see people wanting to stay in character and avoid dealing with Police officers, even as a trainer. The quick answer to this is to simply zone over to, say, Talos, to train where Luminary is right in front of the tram station.

 

I think there's an opportunity here to add some character and color to King's Row by adding a second trainer in an out-of-the-way location. For bonus points, explicitly flesh out the trainer to cater to Rogues, Vigilantes, and those who otherwise refuse to talk to police officers.

 

For example, Stalwart is an example of a truly heroic character who relies on illegal drugs due to his age and weakening abilities. If the talented HC devs didn't want to create a new character to serve as trainer, there are others in the game that are more or less heroic that would be good matches for this position.

 

 

[Rudra]

Or, you know, pop in your SG base and hit up a trainer there. Or like you said, just go to another trainer in another zone. You can even hit up War Witch in Pocket D if you want to go dimensional. Hells, Blue Steel isn't even a police officer any more. Yes, the PPD works closely with him, but they do that with lots of other supers blue side. Including your character if you do the right story arc(s). So when a character visits Blue Steel, they aren't hitting up a PPD trainer, they are hitting up just another super hero that is willing to help them progress their own powers and happens to have been a beat cop once upon a time.

 

Edit again: Yes, there is a conflict in that his description says he holds a special rank in the PPD and is a special deputy in the PPD, but the description leads me to think he holds an unofficial position that grants him official authority with the PPD in specific cases. (The conflict arising from another PPD super that says he has to hide his super identity even from the PPD or he will lose his job in the Shining Stars arcs.)

 

Edited July 9 by Rudra
Edited to add missed "go". And again to change "happens to also train up and coming supers" to "is willing to help them progress their own powers".

[Chance Jackson]

1 hour ago, mechahamham said:

Attitudes towards Police and Law Enforcement have changed a lot since 2004. Blue Shield's backstory seems to actively play into this, with some extremely questionable decisions on his part ultimately leading to the rise of the Clockwork King.

 

 

from https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Blue_Steel

 

This CAN BE a very charged topic, so let me preface this by saying that this is a fantasy city in a fantasy world. No flesh-and-blood human beings live in Paragon City.

 

However, lots of vigilantes and rogues DO live in Paragon City these days, or at least maintain residences there. I can see people wanting to stay in character and avoid dealing with Police officers, even as a trainer. The quick answer to this is to simply zone over to, say, Talos, to train where Luminary is right in front of the tram station.

 

I think there's an opportunity here to add some character and color to King's Row by adding a second trainer in an out-of-the-way location. For bonus points, explicitly flesh out the trainer to cater to Rogues, Vigilantes, and those who otherwise refuse to talk to police officers.

 

For example, Stalwart is an example of a truly heroic character who relies on illegal drugs due to his age and weakening abilities. If the talented HC devs didn't want to create a new character to serve as trainer, there are others in the game that are more or less heroic that would be good matches for this position.

 

 

I'm all for getting away from copraganda

[Akisan]

1 hour ago, mechahamham said:

However, lots of vigilantes and rogues DO live in Paragon City these days, or at least maintain residences there. I can see people wanting to stay in character and avoid dealing with Police officers, even as a trainer. The quick answer to this is to simply zone over to, say, Talos, to train where Luminary is right in front of the tram station.

 

I think there's an opportunity here to add some character and color to King's Row by adding a second trainer in an out-of-the-way location. For bonus points, explicitly flesh out the trainer to cater to Rogues, Vigilantes, and those who otherwise refuse to talk to police officers.

 

I could see quite a few Vigilantes working with the cops (there's a few contacts that are cops) - they'll still take the same missions (go save this person), but the perpetrators will "mysteriously disappear" instead of being teleported to the Zig infirmary. (Whether said disappeared mobs die, get taken back to a hideout for "interrogation", get fed to Rularuu, or whatever, is 100% up to the player to determine).  As far as visiting another zone's trainer (because you don't want to deal with cops) - many Paragon City trainers effectively are cops.  They're generally registered as Heroes, which means they do what they can to stop crime and assist the PPD when they need to.  If you don't want to deal with the law at all as a Vigilante, a trainer hidden away in a SG base (whether as a raw NPC or cleverly set up inside a training/meditation area) would likely be more in-character than going to a shady trainer hidden away in KR.

 

As for Rogues, they're still technically Villains.  They're tolerated in Paragon City (unlike true Villainous characters), as they're ostensibly there to clean up their act and become proper Heroes.  Visiting a shady, open world trainer might be in character for their attitudes, but doesn't do them any favors as far as continuing to pretend to be cleaning up their act.

 

 

As an aside: given the text of the tip that leads to the (Wo)man of Vengeance badge, Blue Steel is less "former cop" and more "Paragon City's Chuck Norris": "If you can see Blue Steel, he can see you.  If you can't see Blue Steel, you may only be seconds from defeat."

[biostem]

Just go to another trainer if it's that big of a deal for you or your character's backstory - Kings Row is kind of the hard-edged/gritty 80s/90s zone...

 

TBH, Ms. Liberty and her Longbow's illegal invasion of a sovereign nation is more concerning, IMHO, and given that our characters can initiate violence against NPCs that are just sitting around, the police and any opinions you may have about them, are the least of my worries...

Edited July 9 by biostem

[PeregrineFalcon]

If your character dislikes cops that much then why is he fighting bad guys in Kings Row?

 

If you dislike cops that much then why are you trying to inject your real world beliefs into the fictional Paragon City universe?

[Nerio72]

Seems to me these rogues (who are also iffy people) would be in character to go out of their way to a different zone to train if they disliked cops so much. 🤷‍♂️

[lemming]

Yea, I'd go visit a different trainer.    On the plus side, you can beat him up in Max's arc.

[mechahamham]

6 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

If your character dislikes cops that much then why is he fighting bad guys in Kings Row?

 

Imagine superpowered or highly-trained types that would be described as chaotic good or chaotic neutral. They're going to be fighting in King's Row because that's where the fighting needs to happen, regardless of any police presence there.

Edited July 10 by mechahamham

[Ruin Mage]

No thanks. Just go back to Atlas (Liberty) or to Steel Canyon (Valkyrie)

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, mechahamham said:

I think there's an opportunity here to add some character and color to King's Row by adding a second trainer in an out-of-the-way location. For bonus points, explicitly flesh out the trainer to cater to Rogues, Vigilantes, and those who otherwise refuse to talk to police officers.

 

Honestly, I can see where  you are coming from a RPG point of view.

 

I played CoH before the Sunset, and I guess I'm pretty jaded on a lot of things in the game at this point.

I never train in the "open world" any more. I always use trainers in a base. 

 

That being said, there is no reason not to have a trainer in each section of a zone at this point.

That being said, I think all the original trainer were "signature" characters.

I'm a bit against adding additional "signature" characters to the game, so I think any additional trainers should be the equivalent of the detectives but through a different source. The trainers are really supposed to be someone respected .....

 

Thinking on this for a short time, I would think adding a trainer to the Origin stores on the "hero" side would err toward the intent of the trainers that are already in the game - knowledgeable contacts that know the City and are there to support the "new" heroes.

Of course, the origin system isn't deeply ingrained in villains and Praetorians .... I don't even remember there being walk-in stores for either of those "sides", so giving the equivalent of stores (non-mission contact NPCs that sell enhances inside a building or out) the ability to work a trainer would be an alternate way to go to avoid training through Arachnos if you are villainous or whoever is slapping around the Loyalist/Resistance in the Dystopian side.

[ZacKing]

As others have already said, go visit another trainer someplace else.  Your problem is solved.  Clearly you've also never seem to have heard of tropes like the hero's journey and/or redemption arcs in storytelling.

 

11 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

If your character dislikes cops that much then why is he fighting bad guys in Kings Row?

 

If you dislike cops that much then why are you trying to inject your real world beliefs into the fictional Paragon City universe?

 

Amen.  I'd up-vote this 10,000 times if I could.

 

[Herotu]

wtf?

[Excraft]

13 hours ago, mechahamham said:

However, lots of vigilantes and rogues DO live in Paragon City these days, or at least maintain residences there. I can see people wanting to stay in character and avoid dealing with Police officers, even as a trainer. The quick answer to this is to simply zone over to, say, Talos, to train where Luminary is right in front of the tram station.

 

You've solved your own problem in your post.  If you want to RP that your toon doesn't like police officers, go visit another trainer someplace else. 

 

As for vigilante characters working with the police, maybe you've never heard of Batman?

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

There are no plans to add a trainer to KR or any other zone at this time. Players who, because of their backstory, don't want to interact with a given NPC are free to go to another zone or their supergroup base.

 

As stated by the OP, this can be a charged topic.  Before we fall headlong into a political debate, thread locked.