How many power combinations exist in game to date?

[Scarlet Shocker]

A question I've often wondered about vaguely but how many different power combos are available to a given player?

 

Obviously there's all the various ATs, and they have a range of available powers so that gives a significant number of itself. But then there are pool powers, APP/Patron Powers to add to that mix too.

 

I am not including Temp/Powers bought from Vendors at this stage because I have no clue how many of those there are - especially pet/vanity pet powers, but I'm thinking that given all possible legitimate power combos, there must be a couple of hundred thousand options to everyone (but not sure how many of the pool powers are regularly used so there's a high degree of theory in this.

 

I do remember Matt Miller once saying there were "literally billions of costume power choices" - but I think the actual number of powers are also impressive too.

[Luminara]

I was going to total up the primary/secondary combinations, but you threw in pools, and now I'm all "Nope, too much work."

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/index.html

 

You do it.

[Ridiculous Girl]

i would spitball and say 1500 AT primary/secondary combos, but with patron/epic, you go up another order of magnitude.

 

so, i would also say here's good place to start... https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Archetypes  you can count it. 😄

 

another good place to start would be...

 

good luck! 😁

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 9/9/2024 at 12:04 PM, Luminara said:

You do it.

 

 

Ok then

 

This is not fully correct... but it might be close

 

I'm hazy on Pools and A/PPPs for V/EATS so that's where it's most likely to fall over

 

It's a start - and I welcome corrections from those with better knowledge and mathmatical skillologies than I

 

7.5 million power combos ain't so shabby though, is it?

 

	Archetype	Primary Powers	Secondary Powers	Ancillary/Patron	Pool Powers		Total
	Blaster	15	15	50	60		675,000
	Brute	22	13	50	60		858,000
	Controller	12	17	50	60		612,000
	Corruptor	15	17	50	60		765,000
	Defender	17	15	50	60		765,000
	Dominator	12	13	50	60		468,000
	Mastermind	7	17	50	60		357,000
	Scrapper	21	14	50	60		882,000
	Sentinel	15	13	50	60		585,000
	Stalker	18	14	50	60		756,000
	Tanker	11	22	50	60		726,000
	Peacebringer	14	13	50			9,100
	Warshade	14	13	50			9,100
	Arachnos Soldier	8	8	20			1,280
		10	4				40
		10	4				40
	Arachnos Widow	8	7	20			1,120
		6	7				42
		10	6				60
						Total	7469782

Edited September 10 by Scarlet Shocker
updated spreadsheet

[lemming]

I did the calculations sometime ago.  (Before a few of the new sets dropped) and without Pool Powers, it was ~3,000.   (I forget if I accounted for those combos that aren't allowed such as Shields with Staff)

 

That's not accounting for the variety of picks as Scarlet is working on.

 

Pool powers greatly increases that, but those can be swapped around, so you could have three separate builds with the same Primary & Secondary.

 

I'll have to redo my randomizer with the new sets.

[Water]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 

Total

7451946

 

Going to need a few accounts.

[Apogee]

15 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 

Ok then

 

This is not fully correct... but it might be close

 

I'm hazy on Pools and A/PPPs for V/EATS so that's where it's most likely to fall over

 

It's a start - and I welcome corrections from those with better knowledge and mathmatical skillologies than I

 

7.5 million power combos ain't so shabby though, is it?

 

 

Guess I won't be quitting the game anytime soon

[Scarlet Shocker]

realistically I'd guestimate that about 60% of pool powers are very rarely used and people tend to stick with what they know. But even so, that leaves several million combos available.

 

So three questions:

 

1) My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to recall that Warshades could access pool powers - and I think HC Wiki says that's untrue. Do they also access A/PPPs? If so that  is an order of magnitude increase.

 

2) Dear Devs, can we have more character slots please?

 

3) Pool Powers - Given that three of the Pool sets are exclusive - get one, you lose access to the other two sets, I may be miscalculating here and that would be a reduction in the final total. Anyone confirm that?

[UltraAlt]

25 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

1) My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to recall that Warshades could access pool powers - and I think HC Wiki says that's untrue. Do they also access A/PPPs? If so that  is an order of magnitude increase.

 

My level 41 Peacebringer has Leadership (Assault, Tactics, Maneuvers, and Victory Rush) and Fighting (Kick and Tough).

 

I'm unsure about the Epic Power pools.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I just sketched a build in Mids for a PB and it seems they get all the pool powers but no A/PPP

 

 

I checked the HC Wiki and it is ambiguous in that it fails to mention Pool powers;

Quote

Peacebringers only have access to one Primary and one Secondary power set. They also have no Ancillary Power Pools or Patron Power Pools, but they make up for this in the number and variety of powers in their Primary and Secondary.

 

Even so, that's blowing my original spead sheet wide open lol

[Scarlet Shocker]

just updated the original spreadsheet. So there are about 18,000 more combos now

[ZemX]

What?  No Incarnates?!

 

*runs away*

[Techwright]

It would have been faster to check with Mr. Owl.

 

[Snarky]

I know that it is a lot.  
 

I also know that the information is completely useless.  And will change.  
 

with 1 AT primary multiply secondary by patron epic and that gives you a start. Then multiply that number by the number of primary in that AT.  Then do that for each AT.  Sum.  Solution. 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I know that it is a lot.  
 

I also know that the information is completely useless.  And will change.  
 

with 1 AT primary multiply secondary by patron epic and that gives you a start. Then multiply that number by the number of primary in that AT.  Then do that for each AT.  Sum.  Solution. 

That winds up with 2457, but you have to take out the combos that aren't legal such as Claws + Shields.

If someone wants to take those out of this (and add in the EATs)

allcombos.txt

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, lemming said:

That winds up with 2457, but you have to take out the combos that aren't legal such as Claws + Shields.

If someone wants to take those out of this (and add in the EATs)

allcombos.txt 102.17 kB · 0 downloads

So 2457 for one AT ( i am guessing ) ???

 

the formula is damn simple. AT ( # prim x # sec x # epic/patron ) - ( illegal combos ) , this done for each AT, sum of all those ATs is the solution.  

[Scarlet Shocker]

10 hours ago, ZemX said:

What?  No Incarnates?!

 

*runs away*

 

 

My first reaction to this was akin to Foxtrot Oscar but that is yet another order of magnitude.

 

I would like to do it but I think Lore would likely make me cry 🤣

 

To be serious, it would be worth doing.

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, lemming said:

That winds up with 2457, but you have to take out the combos that aren't legal such as Claws + Shields.

If someone wants to take those out of this (and add in the EATs)

allcombos.txt 102.17 kB · 0 downloads

 

I hadn't considered illegal combos - I just took the available data from HC Wiki and that (I presume) doesn't permit illegal combos.

 

 

Source: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Archetypes

 

I went through each AT, counted up available combos etc  I am aware there are possibly glaring errors and I won't be offended if anyone finds and corrects.

 

VEATs still need work. I believe EATs (PB/WS) are pretty close now.

[Snarky]

Blaster is 15 primary 15 secondary and 10 epic/patron.  15x15x10 = 2250.   
 

is this some sly way to get Snarky to figure the entire number because people are too stupid to do math?

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

Blaster is 15 primary 15 secondary and 10 epic/patron.  15x15x10 = 2250.   
 

is this some sly way to get Snarky to figure the entire number because people are too stupid to do math?

 

you have 10 pools with five powers each.

So that's a potential choice of 50. Granted once a pool is chosen you are limited to that (now you've got me thinking about multiple builds) but you have a potential 50 powers to choose from across the board. I am not so good at maths that I can calculate how to account for powers that are predicated on previous selections.

 

But yes there's an anomaly there. I've not counted the individual powers in the primary secondary pools so my final tally won't add up.

 

You have embarrassed me @Snarky

 

/me runs off to find holy water, silver bullets, garlic and crosses

Edited September 11 by Scarlet Shocker
@Snarky wasn't @snarky

[Scarlet Shocker]

17 hours ago, Techwright said:

It would have been faster to check with Mr. Owl.

 

 

He's off elsewhere making other great achievements. In fact you might say he's being an Owling Success!

 

/em rimshot

[lemming]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

So 2457 for one AT ( i am guessing ) ???

 

the formula is damn simple. AT ( # prim x # sec x # epic/patron ) - ( illegal combos ) , this done for each AT, sum of all those ATs is the solution.  

That's without taking pools into account.  So, 225 for blasters.

 

If you take pools into account, you're not just taking one, but two to four of the regular (without mixing Sorcery, Experimental, Force of Will) and zero or one Epic.

Which I think does make it a little more complicated.    I didn't bother since in theory, you don't have to roll up a new character with the pools for trying those out.

 

Of course if the goal is only to try out each power set with an AT, then you just need to add up the most choices per AT such as 15 for a blaster, so looks like 198.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

52 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

you have 10 pools with five powers each.

 

Wait.  Are you calculating number of possible power set combinations or number of possible POWER combinations?  If you are doing sets then you can only have 4 pools and one epic, so you only have to multiply by 5, not 50. 

 

If looking at powers, then I think you have to do factorials for each power set (9 powers each) and pool, as you can choose to take or skip powers.  And that probably has to be limited by the total number of power picks (24 not including inherents).  Ugh!  Math!

[High_Beam]

Mongo head hurt.

 

[ZemX]

On 9/9/2024 at 5:51 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

A question I've often wondered about vaguely but how many different power combos are available to a given player?

 

To be serious about this (unlike my other reply) the useful answer here is the simplest one (number of primary choices multiplied by number of secondary choices) summed across all ATs.   If you think about how we most often talk about what characters we are playing, we tend to just give the pri/sec combo. e.g. "I am playing a Katana/Regen Brute!"

 

Less often, people will throw in that epic/patron pick and say they are playing a Dark/Dark/Dark Blaster, so that's fair game too, I think.

 

Pools are much less differentiating, however.  It's not that the powers themselves are unimportant.  Just that nobody introduces themselves as a Fire/Fire/Flying/Speed/Concealment/Mace Blaster.

 

As such I declare @Snarky the winner of this thread:

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

Blaster is 15 primary 15 secondary and 10 epic/patron.  15x15x10 = 2250.   

 

And I declare myself the thread's Pedant in Chief for reminding him that it's 11 epic/patron choices... since "none" is a choice.   *pushes up glasses*