Aggravated

[Gravitus]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

OP, even though they seem to display serious narcissism and main character syndrome, it sucks that they got booted at the tail end of the TF. Which is weird. I don’t know if they were using GF all throughout the TF, and if so why not boot them at the beginning? Or if it were used in that one mish and then the incident occurred in which case OP subscribed to the FAFO method. 
 

Thats the only way I could see this being two sided, otherwise its pretty cut n dry. 

Dude....that's literally what was said...I said it wasn't an issue for most of the TF and then all of a sudden it became an issue from one guy...the leader.... generally if it's multiple people you hear the bitching in team chat,

[Nerio72]

12 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Why do you consistently gloss over the fact that the null solution solves everyone's problems, whereas what you're suggesting only appeases one side? Accomodating laziness and/or forgetfulness isn't a defense full stop.

Its not laziness on anyone's part that they didn't go turn off your power. You think that is the answer because that makes it so YOU don't have to do anything. You were asked to turn off a power that was affecting other peoples play, refused and got kicked for it. And based on this thread I'm guessing you didn't refuse politely. I'm guessing you called someone lazy?

[Gravitus]

3 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Rocket boots is not enough of a reason to grief other players with group fly. Group fly is not a necessary tool to play an MM well (including bots). If you can not take a modicum of responsibility for your actions and how they affect others, and acknowledge that all of our time playing this game is valuable (you are hardly the only casual player with limited playing time), then you're going to find yourself getting booted quite a bit.

I mean sure...if you want to quote mine my stuff so you can win a strawman argument, go for it...that was an attempt at humor. You would know that if you've been keeping up with my actual position. 

[Nerio72]

4 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Dude....that's literally what was said...I said it wasn't an issue for most of the TF and then all of a sudden it became an issue from one guy...the leader.... generally if it's multiple people you hear the bitching in team chat,

You do not know that. You are assuming that. What probably happened is the LEADER of the TEAM got multiple messages from the rest of the TEAM and finally asked you to stop. But that's MY assumption. I also don't know.

[Skyhawke]

Or, maybe it had been a slow burn annoyance that was let go for awhile because, for the most part, people try to be polite and not rock the boat. Then, it finally hit the limit and polite turned to not polite. If that: Fair? Not really. Understandable? Yeah. 

 

Sounds to me like both parties could've handled that flash point better. The only difference is one had the ability to boot and did so. I'm loathe to say "sucks to be you" because it comes off as rude and that's not how I want it to sound. So, I'll say it didn't go your way, you felt slighted, but in the end it was out of your control and not worth letting it harsh your mellow.

 

Maybe next time a quick "Hey, I use group flight but a quick trip to Null the Gull in Pocket D can stop it from affecting you". Heck, you might even teach a newbie a thing or two and quickly squash someone getting bristley 3/4 through a TF. 

[COH Radgen]

I'm glad this topic got posted.  As @TygerDarkstorm mention, "MSR's and Hami are the exception to the rule and well known as group fly friendly events".  While this may be true, I was on an Earth/Storm 'troller on a Hami the other day when someone toggled on Group Fly.  Earth Control has Stalagmites which is a nice -Def (which requires the user to be on the ground)  that I rotate with other -Def powers to help take down the Mending Mitos (this is on Torch EarlyBird Hami where all the Mitos are taken down).  

 

When Group Fly began to impact me and my power rotation, I politely (and sarcastically) thanked the person in League for reminding me to visit Null.  I did so immediately after that round of taking down Hami.  Seeing this post today reminded me to cycle all my Hami alts through PD which I was able to do before the maint this morning.

 

All that said, the OP, after being on 75% of the TF, decided to deny the team leader's request to not use GF.  I don't know if it was a single request or if the request came with an 'or else' but the team lead was indeed within their rights to boot.  If your time was THAT important to you then you could have simply complied, turned off GF, then completed the TF.  Simple.

Edited Tuesday at 04:54 PM by COH Radgen
Add that Stalagmites requires user to be on the ground

[Gravitus]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

No the leader was right to kick you.

Not only were you selfish you were also fucking with EVERYONES Muscle Memory.

 

If someone is acclimated to Combat Jumping to move around then being caught up in someones Group Fly is annoying as hell.

And I guarantee you that people do not know if you fly as close to the ground as you can get you can still stomp/burn/etc

You got evidence for that claim or are you just projecting your own dislikes of GF?

 

This is the equivalent of having a nice comfy ass Logitech plainjane keyboard for the better part of a decade and the little green electronic board thing starts rusting and dying then finding out all physical stores near you are sold out so now you have to settle for a micro flashing led light keyboard with super small ass keys with no gap between the F# and # keys and one that is either flat or at an angle you are not used to while you wait for amazon to ship a clone of your old buddy.

More irrelevant projection, no one with a full-time job can relate.

 

JOJO MOMENT TIME

 

Now you are probably thinking everyone should always goto Null the Gull for you and just you or think "hey you already goto him for something or another, change your ways for me!"

This is looping back to the selfish thing.

What an idiotic comment, that feature exists so you won't tell people not to play their toon it was meant to be played for them. The devs didn't put it in there because they were bored. 

 

Group Fly isnt even welcome in Mastermind Monday

Even tactical team teleporting to move a stuck pet or getting the hell out of the way or trying to catch up after one or two others deals with stagglers/self rezzers they are not too crazy about.

And how is that relevant to whats being talked about?

 

OP, may you lose your pinky toe nail to a horrible lego accident and it never regrows if you ever group fly in one of my groups

Cool story bro

 

[Gravitus]

1 hour ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Group Fly is a necessary tool for Mastermind henchmen to be useful during the pylon and Rikti drop ship phases of a Rikti mothership raid.  If I disable Group Fly during the pylon phase, my henchmen are dragged through all of the level 54 mobs on the ground while moving between pylons, and summarily get defeated in seconds.  Then it's about ten to fifteen minutes of constantly re-summoning, re-equipping, and re-upgrading the henchmen during the pylon phase, and doing no damage.  If I keep the henchmen up in the air with Group Fly, then that is not an issue, and I don't have to re-summon, re-equip, and re-upgrade them nearly as much, meaning they do a lot more damage.  Group Fly is also the only way they can do damage against the Rikti drop ship.

 

So yes, sometimes Group Fly is actually very helpful and necessary.  If people are too lazy to take the two minutes to go to Null the Gull, or take the additional ten seconds at Null the Gull whenever they change alignment, then to be frank that is their problem.  Not the Group Fly user's.

I'm glad someone her eknows how to play a MM

[Krimson]

As you can see by the tone of posts in this thread, player hostility is a very real thing. Fortunately, you will probably never see anyone in this thread playing in the game, so just do what you like.

[Gravitus]

13 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

Its not laziness on anyone's part that they didn't go turn off your power. You think that is the answer because that makes it so YOU don't have to do anything. You were asked to turn off a power that was affecting other peoples play, refused and got kicked for it. And based on this thread I'm guessing you didn't refuse politely. I'm guessing you called someone lazy?

It's a solution for everyone and no one should apologize for using their powers in a way that makes sense. Very few exceptions exist to that, like causing the team to lose by aggroing at the inappropriate time.

[Nerio72]

1 minute ago, Gravitus said:

It's a solution for everyone and no one should apologize for using their powers in a way that makes sense. Very few exceptions exist to that, like causing the team to lose by aggroing at the inappropriate time.

Its is not a solution for everyone. Its the solution you want everyone to use. Another solution is to turn it off when asked in teams. You disagree with this, I understand that, but that does not make anyone else lazy because they don't want to use that option. You don't think you should have to turn off a power that you are allowed to have. Fine. But not everyone wants to go turn off a power that you chose. They didn't choose it and they should be allowed to play their toon the way it was designed also.

[UltraAlt]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:42 AM, Gravitus said:

Can GMs do nothing to these people if we report them?

 

You were on their team.
If the team leader asks  you to do something, you might want to consider that you are on their team and that you are not the only person on that team.

The Leader has the "boot" for a reason.

 

If you want to avoid getting booted, lead teams yourself. Then you can decide to boot or not.

 

I know for myself, that I give multiple warnings before I boot any one from a team.

I don't think I have booted even 5 players from a team over the years that I have been playing on Homecoming.

 

Honestly, if your group fly wasn't causing issues to other players, I wouldn't care.

If it was disruptive to me and/or any of the rest of the team, I would have asked you to turn it off and booted you if you didn't.

 

Yes, your time is important, but so is the time of all the other players on the team.

 

As I said, if you don't want to get booted, lead teams yourself or listen to the team leader.

[UltraAlt]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:21 PM, Gravitus said:

At any rate as far as the running of the teams go, I do believe there is a point when the team lead can be tyrannical.

 

I think I have only been on one team where a leader was tyrannical.

They threatened to kick me because I was moving away from enemies because there was a danger of getting knocked out. Not that I was staying out combat for any longer than it took to regain enough health that I didn't feel that I would fall in combat and at no point was it endangering the team.

I quit the team myself, and several of the players on the team sent me tells that the leader was out of line.

 

I put the leader on /ignore so that I wouldn't join any of their teams again.

[Gravitus]

18 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

Its is not a solution for everyone. Its the solution you want everyone to use. Another solution is to turn it off when asked in teams. You disagree with this, I understand that, but that does not make anyone else lazy because they don't want to use that option. You don't think you should have to turn off a power that you are allowed to have. Fine. But not everyone wants to go turn off a power that you chose. They didn't choose it and they should be allowed to play their toon the way it was designed also.

It IS a solution for everyone and It DOES make them lazy. and What you are advocating is that one side should have preferential treatment to play their character how it was designed while I'm advocating both sides can play their character the way it was meant to be designed. I'm not sorry you might lose 2 min of your life teleporting to null and making a perma option change vs GF users losing a power slot.  

Edited Tuesday at 05:21 PM by Gravitus

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

It is true the thread was about an anecdote/incident in a TF. And while somethings might be "entirely possible", that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable or optimal. I've played a couple of MMs to 50. They're not my thing. I think I just let my thugs and beasts follow behind me during the pylon phase. None of them made it, but I didn't care. It was an MSR. But - I was on Excelsior where it used to be fairly common for folks to put an attack on auto-fire and come back 25-30 minutes later. It may still well be common. 

Lunar is on Indom. They wait (to my impatient perspective) FOREVER just to get 4-5 teams. So, one player's solution may not fit all players. I suspect they would miss the damage, although I could be wrong. Still, while I cede the point that MSR and Hami raids are distinctively different than a TF, it does illustrate at a minimum why someone would use the power and be perfectly in their rights to do so. Even if it does take my fire tank in the air where I can't use burn. It'd be my own fault. 

Mind you - it wouldn't make me any happier. But, as mentioned, there is a solution for that. I take the side of the leader in the OP's post to a point. But kicking over a playstyle thing is a bit silly to me. The only power that really drives me nuts is that distortion field, or whatever it's called where you can't damage the npcs (and they can't damage you). I can totally get why a squish might activate it in certain situations, but not in an MSR, lol. (although I've seen it done!) 

I would say half of the problems most of us have in this game with other people is communication. Sometimes, too much communication. Sometimes, not enough. 

Again, as said, MSR's are widely considered a group fly friendly activity. They and Hami raids are one of the few things where it's acceptable to leave it running regardless. This is outside of the greater general point that group fly is not required to play an MM well, and that it would not have been that detrimental for the OP to have complied and just turned it off when asked.

[Nerio72]

Its an option for everyone. There may be reasons another player does not want to completely turn off GF and they shouldn't have to because there are players that are more important than everyone else on a team. If you are asked politely and it doesn't make you lose the TF you should do what the team leader asks you to.

 

I have made my points. Enjoy the game.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Why do you consistently gloss over the fact that the null solution solves everyone's problems, whereas what you're suggesting only appeases one side? Accomodating laziness and/or forgetfulness isn't a defense full stop.

 

Why do you consistently ignore the fact that you can just turn off GF and solve everyone's problems?  You've said a few times here that you don't use it all the time, so it's not necessary.  That's you asking everyone else to accommodate your laziness in changing your tactics while on a team.

 

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

You mean the needs of the guy holding the star.

 

They hold the star, it's their team to run as they see fit.  Don't like it?  Quit and form your own team.

[Without_Pause]

Uh, oh. They brought out the red text y'all. GF is srs bizns.

[PoptartsNinja]

3 hours ago, kelika2 said:

And I guarantee you that people do not know if you fly as close to the ground as you can get you can still stomp/burn/etc

 

This isn't always true, either. Some sets like Electric Armor are really touchy about being 'on the ground' and even though they're supposed to be fine with flying within 5 feet or so of a surface. Sometimes the game just... doesn't count you as close enough and you lose the benefits of some of your resistance powers.

 

IIRC Titan Weapons explicitly just doesn't have have a number of "while flying" animations and some powers become outright unusable; and I believe Earth Control/Melee and Seismic Blast all have powers (Stalagmites, Stalagmite, Upthrust?, Tremor? and possibly Seismic Blast's passive AOE Knockdown aura) which just do not work at all if you're flying.

 

Anyway, TLDR?
OP, you decided your fun outweighed someone else's fun; and that person disagreed. That person was also in a position to make their opinion matter more than yours.

 

Don't like it? Run your own teams, be the change you want to see and don't kick anyone for running powers that annoy you. Help educate people about Group Fly and how to turn it off at Null the Gull.

Edited Tuesday at 05:42 PM by PoptartsNinja

[Gravitus]

7 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Uh, oh. They brought out the red text y'all. GF is srs bizns.

GD right!

[Starhawk32]

Trying to not fan flames here but just my two cents.

I don't think sometimes people realize that it is actually work to lead a TF.  It's not just click button here.  There is the recruiting which is time consuming and sometimes frustrating to deal with the players.  There is also a predetermined idea of how things should go.  Managing the expectations of other players and herding a group un un-likeminded individuals towards a common goal can be work.

You can certainly lay down some ground rules or go with what you expect to be tribal knowledge as laying down rules can be more work.  At the end of the day, it doesn't take a special license to run a group.  It is not a democracy for a reason.  If play is casual then it can also be casual play for everyone, including the leader.  Having to deal with the conflict of players clashing with your style or each others is frustrating.  Having a team member distrupt thru changing the play of others is frustrating.  Having to explain to folks that they should have went to the gull to turn off speed boost if they don't like it is work.  If you have to do all this work that is why so much of the time there are only a limited number of folks willing to lead.
 

In my opinion it is not a democracy.  The person put work into a group not only for themselves but for others as well.  The lead says to me "no speeding" or "no use of x power" that is their right.

Other option is to start your own group.   It doesn't require a license.

[PeregrineFalcon]

22 minutes ago, Excraft said:

Why do you consistently ignore the fact that you can just turn off GF and solve everyone's problems?

Because Gravitus is the MAIN CHARACTER!

 

The main character doesn't have to be courteous to others, consider their feelings at all, or do anything they/them doesn't want to. And she should never suffer any consequences for her actions! That's why the team leader's actions where morally wrong, because you don't kick the main character off of the team! What was he thinking?

 

Never mind that Null the Gull won't talk to you during a TF. Never mind that most players don't even know about Null the Gull. It's our job to make certain that we've exercised that option with Null the Gull because we might be on a TF with him one day and he is the Main Character!

[Greycat]

Not reading through 8 pages of this...

 

Honestly, it'd be nice if:

(A) the options at Null were more widely known, and

(B) Null were available in more zones. At the very least in the raid zones, where you often don't *want* to leave the zone because you might not get back in.

 

(Or, (C) which apparently can't happen/is exceedingly difficult due to spaghetti, the option were in the player's options menu.)

[PhotriusPyrelus]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:42 AM, Gravitus said:

As a casual gamer my time is very valuable to me and getting through most of the TF just to not get the rewards was super aggravating.

Not aggravating enough to swallow your pride and yield to the authority of the team leader, apparently.

 

On 9/16/2024 at 10:42 AM, Gravitus said:

Can GMs do nothing to these people if we report them?

I absolutely detest how punishment-obsessed our culture has become.  Stop being a child.  Someone in a game did something you didn't like.  Grow up.  You don't need to run to mommy GM and get him spanked.

[Without_Pause]

I mean. The OP started a thread which hit 8 pages in two days. At no point is anyone joining them on the hill they are dying on. They got some sympathy at best. The vast majority of support via reposts and emotes for either side come on the side which is against the OP.  If it were me, I would look at the situation and understand that maybe I was in the wrong if I were the OP. But hey, I'm not the OP.

 

Quote

If I speak at one constant volume
At one constant pitch
At one constant rhythm right into your ear
You still won't hear

 

Also, if my time is limited, I'm not creating more accounts than allowed to multi-box and then spending my limited time doing the most boring thing this game offers.