The Freedom Phalanx: why the hatred?

[Andreah]

I think, in retrospect, it would have been best if each one of these heroes' superheroing days had been in the past when the game launched. They were all retired, defeated, or de-powered for one reason or another, and the ones who were still around were left giving story hooks, tips, and "advice" to new heroes, whom they hoped would rise to greatness and provide for the city's heroism needs as they no longer could. Also, remove the idea that they "train" us -- find some other explanation for going to them to choose powers and install upgrade slots.

[tidge]

Lots of good stuff, but especially:

 

12 hours ago, Jiro Ito said:

Synapse - this dude's entire torturous existence is thanks to Crey, but his task force has you chasing down the Clockwork King?

 

Blue Steel - this guy should have the Clockwork King task force, and there's so much opportunity to make it personal to him, and explore his heroics and less-than-heroic actions, and really take a this story to a meaningful place.  Do we ultimately place Blue Steel under arrest, along with CWK?

 

From a Lore PoV, it absolutely should be Blue Steel giving the (current Synapse) Clockwork King TF, even with the "what is this weird science?" aspect to it. IIRC the only time we get a feel for Blue Steel is in a single Dark Astoria mission.

[Skyhawke]

Statesman owed me twenty bucks then went and got himself killed. The Phalanx refused to pay his debt. Buncha welchers all! 

 

Otherwise, I don't feel hate for the Signature characters. They're kinda bland and we don't really grow attached to them like say a Fusionette or Tremblor. They're there while we're on our journey but just as trainers or TF givers. Super powered middle managers. We see Fusionette and Tremblor grow alongside us and it creates a sort of bond that the FP and Vindicators will never have. 

[tidge]

18 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

 They're kinda bland and we don't really grow attached to them like say a Fusionette or Tremblor. They're there while we're on our journey but just as trainers or TF givers. Super powered middle managers. We see Fusionette and Tremblor grow alongside us and it creates a sort of bond that the FP and Vindicators will never have. 

 

Good point about Fusionette and Jim Tremblor.  I have always felt that the villain-side arcs involving the Vindicators makes them feel a little more engaged, at least to me.

[OEM61]

12 hours ago, Andreah said:

I think, in retrospect, it would have been best if each one of these heroes' superheroing days had been in the past when the game launched. They were all retired, defeated, or de-powered for one reason or another, and the ones who were still around were left giving story hooks, tips, and "advice" to new heroes, whom they hoped would rise to greatness and provide for the city's heroism needs as they no longer could. Also, remove the idea that they "train" us -- find some other explanation for going to them to choose powers and install upgrade slots.

I wonder...  Would there have been any thought of a CoH comic if the signature heroes would have all been retired?

Would a comic telling the stories of a bunch of retired heroes from their glory days have been as appealing?

I do think, though, that there is a middle-ground if they wanted to "protect" the signature heroes (and villains).

They could leave the IP heroes in the game for special endgame missions where they could accompany our heroes.  Single-player and/or small group missions with one of them accompanying us against some big threat.  Same way some other heroes join us on missions.

When they shut down Galaxy City a lot of early-game contacts from over there were placed in City Hall.  Every room down there has at least one person that serves either no or a very limited function.  They could make all of them trainers.  Not the actual contacts, but one of the 'extra' people.

I know there is at least a fair stretch where three different contacts all offer the same mission set.  Cut that down to a pair of contacts (to keep one contact from being swamped, but currently I do not even think that that is a real problem) and turn the third into a trainer.

Or just make every contact a trainer.  Just don't ask why a reporter is "teaching" your hero a new power.  In fairness, it's really no worse than Back Alley Brawler teaching a Mystic hero a new Ice Blast power.

 

[Techwright]

On 10/16/2024 at 2:50 PM, Frozen Burn said:

 

Are you talking about hatred towards the in-game NPCs or the Developers (Actual people) who used the Phalanx as code names?

It is a question I had not considered when writing the OP, well, other than Statesman & Jack.   What I was referring to was the in-game NPCs, and I did so because whenever I read "I hate [insert character here]"  I did not read anything that hinted at the connection to real life people.

 

On 10/17/2024 at 9:33 AM, Snarky said:

But why does an android have BO?  Does he secrete it on purpose?  Is he using some hormones to try to seem more human?  does he have a fetish for dirty socks?  We need more info!  i suggest that should be the real Citadel TF.  A quest to discover why this guy just reeks!

Well, there was an unfortunate accident at the thermal paste factory that supplies Citadel and well...it's rather personal.

 

On 10/17/2024 at 1:06 PM, TerroirNoir2 said:

I'll put one spin on this. We don't really know them.  Almost none of the material in game gives us a feel for who they are.  We have (and it's probably due to the later writing period) a better understanding of their Praetorian counterparts. 

 

...

 

So respect for the FP can happen but we need to see them close up and properly in various arcs.

Interesting.  Your comment to me highlights a possible change in the game for future editions:  what can be created/written that would allow us a greater connection to these characters?

 

On 10/17/2024 at 4:41 PM, BZRKR said:

If only he was actually Squirrel based, maybe people would like him more 🙂

It's the one thing I dislike about Manticore: that ridiculous, oversized, impractical hood.  But I blame Surge for that, not Manticore.  😉

 

On 10/17/2024 at 9:59 PM, Andreah said:

 

I agree. The hero side FF suffer from the early design of City of Heroes; City of Villains benefited from considerable lessons learned about how to write stories in an MMO.

 

If the resources were there today to rework it all, I'm sure a tremendous improvement could be made, both in making their task forces more consistent to their backgrounds, and making the contributions of player-heroes and our interactions with the FF members be more satisfying.

I'm glad this and other similar comments were posted.  We already have precedence for rearranging character roles.  Ms Liberty took over Statesman's task for and Penny Yin flat out replaced Sister Psyche and her task force.   Incandescent also replaced Castle as trainer, so why not...

 

• Move BABs to primary trainer of Atlas, and place different characters at his two current training locations in Atlas (corner) and Fort Trident.  I suggest the two remaining characters of the Korean hero team W.I.S.D.O.M. , Rose Star and Spark Blade.  Setting BABs as primary trainer makes a certain sense in another way as well, as he would then be a mirror to his doppleganger Marauder who's the main trainer in the starting zone of the gold side.
• Have a new hero take over Blue Steel's training spot in King's Row.  I've no suggestions off the top of my head for this replacement, but probably a character who is overdue for a bit of the spotlight.
• Have Blue Steel moved to the space to his left and give him the current Synapse TF.  That, as noted by others, pairs the hero most likely to want to stop the Clockwork King with his opponent.
• Have Manticore/Swan and Synapse/Bobcat trade places.  (Since Swan is considered Manticore protege.)
• Give Synapse the current Manticore TF.  Again, that creates a more natural hero/villain arrangement.
• Create a new TF for Manticore (say against the 5th Column)...OR...give Manticore one of the two halves of the Positron TF  (I only suggest this because in doing so it would clear a lot of the confusion that arises when an inexperienced team lead loads the wrong half of the current task force).
• Give Manticore a new costume, one that looks battle-ready and doesn't look so over-the-top ridiculous.

 

On 10/18/2024 at 7:11 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

It's mostly my opinion - but I firmly believe that how the signature character's named dev dealt with the fan base counts for 90%  of their rep and their character's writing is the other 15%

 

As I mentioned above, it's a point I'd not considered, that more than one character was judged on the basis of their connection to a real person.  If that's actually what's happening, it's pretty sad, actually.  I especially would be appalled with the comments regarding Positron being a jerk, as I've always felt that Matt Miller was given much greater appreciation in the OG game.  If however the comments are directed about the NPC only, it is one piece of the reason that I wrote the original post.

[TerroirNoir2]

8 hours ago, Techwright said:

Interesting.  Your comment to me highlights a possible change in the game for future editions:  what can be created/written that would allow us a greater connection to these characters?

Ok, then having them appear in arcs post their individual TFs would be necessary.  Much as I like your idea for shuffling the contacts for the current TFs I don't see that happening TBH. The Patron arcs for Redside seem an "easy" analogue and in fact I'm surprised that there aren't equivalent Pool Power arcs for the FP.  Perhaps there was meant to be but it never happened? I haven't checked on the AMAs in a while and can't remember. And the Praetorian counterparts don't even have that incentive of a Patron Pool and we still know more about them, even peripherally like Duncan, since they cross through each other's stories and are at odds.

 

BABs as sole trainer in Atlas?  I like that idea.

 

(And while AE is not everyone's preferred play style I'd again say have a look at @Darmian's long Dark Deeds/Darker Deeds/Darkest Before Dawn series and see how one of us brings an NPC super group to life much better than the OG Devs did for the FP or the Vindicators.)

[tidge]

59 minutes ago, TerroirNoir2 said:

BABs as sole trainer in Atlas?  I like that idea.

 

Occam's razor: there are quite a LOT of "Visit Ms. Liberty in Atlas Park" missions in arcs; some of them would be guaranteed to get messed up by moving/replacing her.

[Triumphant]

I don't have any particular gripe about them.  Maybe their costumes don't really knock my socks off, but that's purely a matter of aesthetics. 🤷‍♂️

[TerroirNoir2]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

Occam's razor: there are quite a LOT of "Visit Ms. Liberty in Atlas Park" missions in arcs; some of them would be guaranteed to get messed up by moving/replacing her.

Easily fixed.  For example the Shining Stars arc used to have you visit the Atlas Park AE, now it directs you to the Vault. Fiddly but not impossible.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, TerroirNoir2 said:

Easily fixed.  For example the Shining Stars arc used to have you visit the Atlas Park AE, now it directs you to the Vault. Fiddly but not impossible.

 

I didn't say it was impossible, that is not what invoking Occam's Razor is about.

[cranebump]

7 hours ago, TerroirNoir2 said:

(And while AE is not everyone's preferred play style I'd again say have a look at @Darmian's long Dark Deeds/Darker Deeds/Darkest Before Dawn series and see how one of us brings an NPC super group to life much better than the OG Devs did for the FP or the Vindicators.)

This is true. I played the entire story as well. By the time I was done I felt like the NPCs were solid allies, since they were present in the missions. If they're there, putting it on the line beside you, you feel less like an errand b-, er, person.:-)

[WumpusRat]

I don't "hate" any of the Phalanx. I nothing them. I don't really feel anything about them at all. 

None of the characters are very interesting to me, and they're basically just 'generic icons who you're supposed to look up to'.

Well, except Manticore. He's the only one I feel anything towards, and that's just amusement at how many times you get to cave his face in on redside.

The redside "Who Will Die?" arc lets you kick his ass like...four times? Five? Something like that.

[Scarlet Shocker]

13 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

I don't "hate" any of the Phalanx. I nothing them. I don't really feel anything about them at all. 

None of the characters are very interesting to me, and they're basically just 'generic icons who you're supposed to look up to'.

Well, except Manticore. He's the only one I feel anything towards, and that's just amusement at how many times you get to cave his face in on redside.

The redside "Who Will Die?" arc lets you kick his ass like...four times? Five? Something like that.

 

I think that's rather the point. Although we have a few who are "mentors" in our early levels, by the time we hit 50 (sooner, even) we're meant to have a pretty good grasp of the game universe in which we exist (sure there are surprises to come) but we're autonomous and it is our characters who are - and certainly should be - at the heart of our story. Which ultimately, is what the game is all about.

 

If the FF or any other NPC for that matter, overshadowed us - especially towards the end game - that would be a huge problem for the game as a concept and design.

 

I also think that some of the more interesting NPCs, not just in Freedom Phalanx but elsewhere, offer some really great, untapped potential for more stories. I'm thinking Aurora is one - because she kept Sister Psyche alive - and Agent Six in Founders - one of the more... mysterious vendors, in particular.

[caradoc1979]

On 10/17/2024 at 8:48 PM, Jiro Ito said:

Best stuff.  

 

A perfect summary of how changes could be implemented!

[cranebump]

10 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 and Agent Six in Founders - one of the more... mysterious vendors, in particular.

I thought the same. Which is why she’s the opening contact for my AE series called “Noble Mettle.” 🙂

[Techwright]

On 10/20/2024 at 9:24 AM, tidge said:

 

Occam's razor: there are quite a LOT of "Visit Ms. Liberty in Atlas Park" missions in arcs; some of them would be guaranteed to get messed up by moving/replacing her.

Fair point, but they've done that before though, yes?  Handed off a position to a new character then had to rewrite missions to compensate?

[ShardWarrior]

On 10/16/2024 at 2:20 PM, Techwright said:

So why all the hatred for them?

 

Do you see how much crime goes on right under their noses?  They're all so lazy!