-recharge and other debuffs?

[Ultimo]

So, lately I've been noticing a MASSIVE increase in the effect of these secondary effects.  An enemy with ice powers can hit me once, and ALL my powers suddenly take 40+ seconds to recharge.  There's literally no way to fight back, because my powers are forever on cooldown.

 

Am I imagining this, or was there a change recently?  If there was, it needs to be changed back, or at least toned down.  Right now, it's basically impossible to fight some of these guys.

[lemming]

Level? Mobs?

 

I know CoT and Council got an update some time ago.

[Glacier Peak]

Noticing a lot of extremes, maybe a lot of embellishments to make a point about recharge debuffs. 

 

Not just an increase, but a MASSIVE increase.

 

Not just some of the powers taking a long time to recharge, but ALL of the powers. 

 

No way to fight back. 

 

Forever on cooldown.

 

Impossible to fight. 

 

Have you tried getting some slow resistance? Or teaming with players who have +Recharge buffs? Or using temporary powers to buff your character's Recharge speed? Or lowering the level of difficulty for the enemies you're facing? Or selected powers that improve your character's recharge time?

[Ultimo]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Noticing a lot of extremes, maybe a lot of embellishments to make a point about recharge debuffs. 

 

Not just an increase, but a MASSIVE increase.

 

Not just some of the powers taking a long time to recharge, but ALL of the powers. 

 

No way to fight back. 

 

Forever on cooldown.

 

Impossible to fight. 

 

Have you tried getting some slow resistance? Or teaming with players who have +Recharge buffs? Or using temporary powers to buff your character's Recharge speed? Or lowering the level of difficulty for the enemies you're facing? Or selected powers that improve your character's recharge time?

There are extremes because what I'm seeing is pretty extreme.  I've had my attacks slowed to 30 or 40 seconds to recharge.  Powers I'm used to taking 3 seconds are taking 10-20 seconds.  I'm finding my endurance drained from full to 0 in two shots, from MINIONS.  That's pretty extreme.  I don't remember it being like that, which is why I'm asking if there was a change.

[Glacier Peak]

Well unless you start using specifics like what level your character was, what level the enemy was, how many enemies there were, what enemy faction it was, or even just writing what the name of the attack itself that caused this was, folks aren't going to be able to answer much. 

[Hedgefund]

I'll answer the end question based on my own play experiences:

 

Was there a change to these debuffs?  No.

[Without_Pause]

It also helps to know what you are playing.

[ZemX]

18 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

No way to fight back. 

 

He is fond of this particular complaint, but always wrong about it.  Many, if not most debuffs, are carried by attacks that need to hit you.  So first line of defense against them... is defense.  Doesn't mean none will ever hit you but it greatly reduces the odds they'll stack on you if only 1 in 5 or 10 hits you.

 

Second, specific debuffs can have specific resistances.   Recharge debuffs are countered by recharge debuff resistance, a.k.a. slow resistance.  Two easiest places to get this are (1) Winter's Gift: Slow resistance IO.  One slot, 20% resist to slow.  Goes in a travel power. (2) The SG Base empowerment station can give you a temporary 20% boost for 90 minutes to slow resistance (and a lot of other useful things too, like say... endurance drain resistance, recovery boost, etc.)  Cost you a bit of minor salvage each time.  Aside from this, slow resistance is found in Winter Set ATOs which are, admittedly, very expensive.   Slow resistance is also found in some armor sets and powers.   I've got a bit in my Rad Armor tankers for example and I build much more on top since I get hit by everything (no defense).  It is possible to attain 100% slow resistance and be affected only by unresistible slows, of which there are very few in the game.

 

Endurance drain is countered by endurance drain resist, which isn't super common or available in IO sets.  But you can increase endurance and endurance recovery.  Having powers that restore endurance is nice too.  Recovery serum temp power from START vendor.  etc. etc. 

 

Solutions abound, in other words.  He just needs to look for them.

Edited Thursday at 12:03 AM by ZemX
Corrected my aim :)

[Ultimo]

18 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

You are fond of this particular complaint, but always wrong about it.  Many, if not most debuffs, are carried by attacks that need to hit you.  So first line of defense against them... is defense.  Doesn't mean none will ever hit you but it greatly reduces the odds they'll stack on you if only 1 in 5 or 10 hits you.

 

Second, specific debuffs can have specific resistances.   Recharge debuffs are countered by recharge debuff resistance, a.k.a. slow resistance.  Two easiest places to get this are (1) Winter's Gift: Slow resistance IO.  One slot, 20% resist to slow.  Goes in a travel power. (2) The SG Base empowerment station can give you a temporary 20% boost for 90 minutes to slow resistance (and a lot of other useful things too, like say... endurance drain resistance, recovery boost, etc.)  Cost you a bit of minor salvage each time.  Aside from this, slow resistance is found in Winter Set ATOs which are, admittedly, very expensive.   Slow resistance is also found in some armor sets and powers.   I've got a bit in my Rad Armor tankers for example and I build much more on top since I get hit by everything (no defense).  It is possible to attain 100% slow resistance and be affected only by unresistible slows, of which there are very few in the game.

 

Endurance drain is countered by endurance drain resist, which isn't super common or available in IO sets.  But you can increase endurance and endurance recovery.  Having powers that restore endurance is nice too.  Recovery serum temp power from START vendor.  etc. etc. 

 

Solutions abound, in other words.  Look for them.

Well, to be fair, if everything is on cooldown for 30 seconds or more, I can no longer DO anything, so there's no way to fight back.  There's also no counter I know of, at least to the -recharge.  In the past, I've never needed to find some rare IO or special base buff, or anything else, because the effect wasn't outright crippling.  That's why I wondered if something changed, because I don't remember it being this way.

But, I could be wrong.  Maybe it HAS always been this way, and I'm just not remembering it.

 

Would a breakfree inspiration clear it?

[Riverdusk]

Are you playing a different character than in the past?  As said, defense is a good counter to almost any debuff as they don't hit as often.  There are also several armor sets that have built in slow and/or -recharge resistance (ice armor the most extreme that is basically immune to slows and -recharge, but others have res to lesser degree).  So, if you are playing something different you may have had protection in the past that you don't anymore.

 

Also as said, slow resistance (which DOES includes -recharge res) is pretty common among the winter IO sets.  I tend to aim for at least 50% or so on any character I make because as you've noticed slows are really annoying.  Even just sticking the one winter's gift piece for 20% resistance in any travel power you have makes a different and isn't that expensive on its own.

 

You can also grab 20% of slow/recharge resistance from a SG buff table for 90 minutes at a time for cheap.

 

Edit: Just noticed your other thread that you are playing an energy aura scrapper.  It has 20% slow resist in its "energy protection" power.  Combine that with that winter IO and maybe the SG buff table and you'd be up to 60% resistance, which would be a significant resistance to it.

Edited Wednesday at 02:55 PM by Riverdusk

[tidge]

52 minutes ago, ZemX said:

(2) The SG Base empowerment station can give you a temporary 20% boost for 90 minutes to slow resistance (and a lot of other useful things too, like say... endurance drain resistance, recovery boost, etc.) 

 

FWIW: The text of some of the SG buffs says 90 minutes, but I don't think I've used one yet that lasts longer than 60 minutes... at least not for many years (if ever the durations were different).

[Riverdusk]

13 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

FWIW: The text of some of the SG buffs says 90 minutes, but I don't think I've used one yet that lasts longer than 60 minutes... at least not for many years (if ever the durations were different).

 

I've had the opposite.  The texts all say 60 minutes but all I've ever tried last 90 minutes, at least as far back as I can remember.  You can rt click in the power tray on the buff and bring up the info details and it'll give the time remaining.  Always seen 90 minutes for all of them.

 

Just double checked slow just now.  Few seconds after getting it, power says "1:29:51 of usage left."  

 

 

[tidge]

10 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

 

I've had the opposite.  The texts all say 60 minutes but all I've ever tried last 90 minutes, at least as far back as I can remember.  You can rt click in the power tray on the buff and bring up the info details and it'll give the time remaining.  Always seen 90 minutes for all of them.

 

Just double checked slow just now.  Few seconds after getting it, power says "1:29:51 of usage left." 

 

The ones I typically use only last 60 minutes... and by selecting several different ones I see all sorts of different durations!

 

EDIT: As a practical matter, I regularly grab about 5 different SG boosts at the same time, and those all expire at almost exactly the same time (1 hour). Maybe "time flies when you are having fun"?

Edited Wednesday at 03:33 PM by tidge

[Uun]

7 hours ago, Ultimo said:

There are extremes because what I'm seeing is pretty extreme.  I've had my attacks slowed to 30 or 40 seconds to recharge.  Powers I'm used to taking 3 seconds are taking 10-20 seconds.  

I call BS. The -recharge floor is -75%, which would increase recharge time to 4x normal. There aren't many ice powers that have that much -recharge in one application. You still haven't revealed what you were fighting despite multiple requests. And no, there has not been a change.

[Riverdusk]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

The ones I typically use only last 60 minutes... and by selecting several different ones I see all sorts of different durations!

 

Interesting.  My most common ones I use increase attack speed (+20 %recharge) and increase recovery (+17% recovery) are both 90 minutes.  Sometimes I'll use the slow resistance and endurance drain resistance (also both 90 minutes).

 

I rarely bother with anything else.

 

I just hope they don't get nerfed now they we are talking about it. 🙂

[tidge]

I'd be happy to be wrong! Although it means I'm taking too long to do what should only take an hour!

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

Well, to be fair, if everything is on cooldown for 30 seconds or more, I can no longer DO anything, so there's no way to fight back. 

 

Not the point I was making.  I am talking about what you can do to avoid or reduce the effect BEFORE it lands.  The game does provide counters.  You're not using them.

 

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

But, I could be wrong.  Maybe it HAS always been this way, and I'm just not remembering it.

 

It has.  There's been no real change to how debuffs work since Live, so far as I am aware.  If you didn't notice it before you either don't remember it or you were playing characters who had some innate slow resist or simply better defense so as not to have so much slow stacked up on them.  Or you're being more aggressive these days going after +4 enemies (which can sometimes be +5 if you are below level 50) or something.   Almost everything an enemy does to you is amplified if they are that much higher in level.

 

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

Would a breakfree inspiration clear it?

 

No.  Slow isn't considered a mez, so breakfrees offer no protection or resistance to it.  Use defense insps instead to avoid getting hit as much.  As has been pointed out, no way are you slowed this much by a single minion.  It's gotta be several stacked slows on you.  If the enemy you're fighting has a slow aura, try to stay clear of them or mez them to disable it.

 

I get that this game, like any game, can be frustrating, but I guarantee you there is really no such thing as a "nothing you can do"(*) situation in this game or EVERYBODY would be complaining about it. (*) Within reason, obviously.  I'm not saying you can solo the Kronos Titan with a level 1 Blaster or anything.

[ZemX]

31 minutes ago, tidge said:

I'd be happy to be wrong! Although it means I'm taking too long to do what should only take an hour!

 

Can't say I've checked EVERY one of the buffs I add from the station, but any time I've looked right afterwards, the timer is at 1:30:00 on the power.

[SeraphimKensai]

Slow cap is 90%, so depending on if the character in question has some degree of slow resistance natively in their kit ymmv based on AT/Powerset. The c ap.hasnt changed any, and depending on purple patch level differences the effect will vary.

 

Otherwise Winter IOs, and Winter's Gift universal travel IO are very helpful.

 

I personally think building for slow resistance is essential on any long recharge click heavy builds. It's possible to cap your slow resistance at 100% so you can never be slowed. The base empowerment buff can also be useful for getting that last bit, if powers, and IOs don't get you to where you want to be.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

Confirmation bias is hell of a drug. 30 seconds in a PC game is a LONG time. Unless there is actual video of it, there's no real way to confirm what is happening. Note, build and mobs have been asked about but none given. It's just feelings from one user when roughly 1k users are logging into one server on a daily basis. I can not fathom two minions dropping a character's end to 0 and the forums not being lit up.

 

Even the worst -Recharge goes away after maybe 10 seconds. It is really rare I have a mob to where I have to rethink how I approach things, but usually a quick rethink gets me through the situation. There's one mob where the LTs do -Recharge and -End in I believe Mr. G's arc Red side. That at +3x8 was fun. I seem to recall doing that arc deathless. 

[Uun]

23 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Slow cap is 90%, so depending on if the character in question has some degree of slow resistance natively in their kit ymmv based on AT/Powerset. The c ap.hasnt changed any, and depending on purple patch level differences the effect will vary.

Movement is -90%. Recharge is -75%.

[Hedgefund]

All the empowerment buffs last 90 minutes and have for a long, long time.  It's so easy to verify this.

 

The only time I've seen -rch be a persistent problem is against those Time Manip foes in Night Ward.  Stacked and purple patched Time Junctures are nas-T.

[ZemX]

6 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I personally think building for slow resistance is essential on any long recharge click heavy builds. It's possible to cap your slow resistance at 100% so you can never be slowed. The base empowerment buff can also be useful for getting that last bit, if powers, and IOs don't get you to where you want to be.

 

On anyone intending to tank for a team or solo extensively at high difficultly levels, I'd say yeah shoot for 80% at least.   I think that can be reduced down a little for high-defense characters since they enjoy the benefit of simply being missed by most debuffs, only being hit by auto/aura/ground type debuffs.  Or for anyone that ISN'T going to be the focus of all attention.

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

Movement is -90%. Recharge is -75%.

Yes that's right. I'm guessing I compounded movement speed and recharge speed in my head in-between meetings here at work.

[Luminara]