-recharge and other debuffs?

[Nemu]

You always have the option to refrain from posting. No response is still a form of response.

 

Also the ignore button exists. Why continually invest the time and emotional capital for a person you obviously do not agree with?

[Ultimo]

As I've said, I can only say what I've seen with my own eyes, and you'll be hard pressed to convince me I didn't see what I saw.

 

Such as this.  The second slot on the second bar is Spinning Kick, from a screen I took tonight.  I was fighting Council, this was after I was tagged by several Marksmen.

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, Ultimo said:

The second slot on the second bar is Spinning Kick, from a screen I took tonight.

Are you sure that's Spinning Kick?
Spinning Kick is a Dominator-only power (from Martial Assault) and I see what look like Willpower Toggles there.

(i) What level are you?
(ii) What level were the mobs you were fighting?
(iii) Do you know the actual name of the specific mobs (as opposed to Council "marksmen")
(iv) Where did this happen: is this in a specific Mission map; a Radio Map; AE; Street Sweeping....?

Chances are that it's either a UI bug or a specific enemy power has got a decimal point in the wrong place (it's happened before)
But whilst you're seeing weird numbers on the screen... in order to narrow down the culprit and replicate it we're gonna need more accurate details. If someone can jump into the same situation and actually review the combat log + observe what values the current -recharge debuffs are doing in their Combat Numbers display we'll have more to go on...
 

[Ultimo]

L23 Street Justice Scrapper... Spinning Strike (I had to look it up).  They're Council Marksmen, same level as me, radio mission.

 

As I say, the number says 54 seconds, but it doesn't actually take that long, as the debuff only lasts 10 seconds... so it's a bit deceptive.

[Maelwys]

Cheers. Whenever I get home later this evening I'll hop on and see if I can replicate (assuming nobody else has beaten me to it!)

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

L23 Street Justice Scrapper... Spinning Strike (I had to look it up).  They're Council Marksmen, same level as me, radio mission.

 

As I say, the number says 54 seconds, but it doesn't actually take that long, as the debuff only lasts 10 seconds... so it's a bit deceptive.

Spinning Strike has a 16s recharge. The Council power is Cryonic Rounds. It has 15% -recharge. Assuming you don't have any recharge slotted, your recharge would be increased to 18.8s using this formula: RechargeTime = BaseRechargeTime / ( 100% + Buffs - Debuffs ). In order for Spinning Strike to have a 54s recharge, you would have to have been hit with a 70% -recharge. It's more likely that there's a glitch with the Recharge Timer display.

[Without_Pause]

IIRC, WP doesn't offer protection from -Recharge. Outside of the possible display issue, I would change tactics to where those debuffs aren't coming in at a slower rate. 

[Maelwys]

Looks fine to me.

Midway through the recharge time of Spinning Strike; a single helping of Cryonic Rounds only budged its remaining recharge time by a second or two.
Trying to activate it after already being under the influence of a Cryonic Rounds debuff bumped its (unenhanced!) full recharge time from 16s to 19s.



I suspect either you were being hit by a UI display bug or you were under the effect of *lots* of simultaneous debuffs.

[Hedgefund]

I've seen several references to a UI display bug but, speaking for myself, I've never noticed such a thing before.  I'm not counting, of course, how the number goes up or down based on timing of various recharge buffs/debuffs but I've never seen a countdown number that I had reason to believe erroneous if the buffs/debuffs stayed static.

[Maelwys]

25 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

I've seen several references to a UI display bug but, speaking for myself, I've never noticed such a thing before.  I'm not counting, of course, how the number goes up or down based on timing of various recharge buffs/debuffs but I've never seen a countdown number that I had reason to believe erroneous if the buffs/debuffs stayed static.

 

I've encountered many occasions now where what the UI claims doesn't quite match up with the real remaining recharge time of a power. When this occurs it's usually a 120s or longer ability such as Hasten or one of the Incarnate abilities (especially Lore).

If I attempt to manually trigger such an ability then I can sometimes get it to activate even if the UI claims there are 5-10s left before it fully recharges... and it can work the other way too, as sometimes whenever the UI claims a power is fully recharged my attempting to manually trigger it will fail and I'll just get a "recharging" message.

 

The discrepancy seems to happen more frequently if I encounter a cutscene or moved through a doorway or elevator during the power's recharge cycle. I'm guessing it might be due to lag spikes or just the client playing catch-up.

[ZemX]

On 1/18/2025 at 7:28 AM, Ultimo said:

As I say, the number says 54 seconds, but it doesn't actually take that long, as the debuff only lasts 10 seconds... so it's a bit deceptive.

 

It's not trying to be deceptive.  The game calculates recharge assuming all current buffs/debuffs will go on forever. It can't really work any other way. 

 

You might think it could get a better estimate if it takes into account the remaining duration of all those buffs/debuffs but that wouldn't work in all situations either.  Buffs/debuffs that are toggles or AoE ground patches, for example, only debuff you as long as the toggle is running or as long as you stay within the AoE of that debuff.  The game can't know that.  Nor can it know what new buffs/debuffs you will be hit with in the future.  So it doesn't try to guess.  Hell, my Rad Armor tanker gets a +recharge boost based on how many enemies are standing nearby, so my total recharge bonus can change by the second.

 

All that said, in order to understand what you're seeing, you need to include the power monitor in your screenshot like @Maelwys has (showing Recharge Time Bonus and the breakdown below it)  to see how many and how strong each of the debuffs are.  One, or even two, cryo rounds can't slow you as much as you're seeing.   So yeah, UI display bug or you're getting hit by more and/or stronger debuffs than you realize.

[tidge]

54 minutes ago, ZemX said:

It's not trying to be deceptive.  The game calculates recharge assuming all current buffs/debuffs will go on forever. It can't really work any other way. 

 

[snip]

 

All that said, in order to understand what you're seeing, you need to include the power monitor in your screenshot like @Maelwys has (showing Recharge Time Bonus and the breakdown below it)  to see how many and how strong each of the debuffs are. 

 

Whenever a player thinks they are being debuffed to the point that they begin to feel that something is wrong, monitoring specific combat attributes is a really good idea. Up to 10 may be monitored at any one time (without keeping the large window open).

 

In my own experience, most debuffs (especially -Recharge) are pretty short in duration, so a glance at my attribute monitor is usually enough to clue me in for cases when I don't recognize a visual clue on my character.

 

As for the OP... I've convinced myself that there had to have been some sort of engagement/flyby of a Winter Lord that isn't being shared. There is very little in the open world that will cause the massive amount of -Recharge described, and certainly none by grey con enemies. Winter Lords are pretty much the only thing I encounter in open world con-grey zone that can be just standing around (that is, they don't self de-rezz) that can have that effect.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Whenever a player thinks they are being debuffed to the point that they begin to feel that something is wrong, monitoring specific combat attributes is a really good idea. Up to 10 may be monitored at any one time (without keeping the large window open).

 

This.  Debuffs are pretty much the only reason I keep the power monitor mini-window up.  Last Hit Chance, Recovery, Regen, Any defense, Any resistance, damage bonus, recharge bonus.  I might take an extra defense or resist depending on the character but one is usually enough since debuffs tend to be -def(all) or -res(all).  For resist, I like having my two or three lowest resistances shown if I know the rest are capped.

[tidge]

The attributes I watch are 99% common for my characters;

 

To Hit Bonus <- Mostly to look for debuffs, but also to keep an eye on if I have all my toggles up

Last Hit Chance <- This is the giveaway to "maybe stop swinging"

3x Positional Defenses <- Again, to look for debuffs, and to see if a toggle is not up or otherwise not available

 

Positional defenses are typically easier to build for across ATs and Power picks, so I monitor those by habit. If I am playing a character with explicitly typed defenses I may monitor the "worst" of those.

 

I have occasionally monitored other attributes like travel speeds, endurance/recovery but those are usually for short-term testing.