A true Force Field Defender

[Diantane]

The Force Field Defender is one of my favorites and extremely fun to play.

 

Have a FF Def on Excelsior called, "Shield-Generator". Since attacks from a defender do very little damage (unless your primary is Kinetics), there's absolutely no reason to train them past level 1 (my prerequisite tier one attack isn't in my toolbar). Because of this we use very little endurance. That blue bar stays near or at the top at all times (unless we're fighting Freakshow's and then only down 25%).

 

Most FF Def's don't train or use only seldom, "Repulsion Field." Because the description says that each enemy that it repels cost you additional endurance. Well since I use so little of that, my repulsion field is always on (and the end rarely drops because of the endless endurance ). Even the dampening bubble is on auto and is up nearly 100%. I use the Force Bomb and Repulsion Bolt constantly and they are well slotted with SO's (acc, rech, rech, kb, kb on the bomb, acc, kb, kb on the bolt). Using the bomb makes me laugh when it hits almost every time (you would too when you see a bunch of baddies fly into the air).

 

The deflection and insulation shields are three slotted with defense buff SO's ASAP. My teammates really enjoy this level of defense when doing arc missions at +3 and +4. Defenders that put all of their slots into their attacks and only the free slot in the shields are only wasting their time. When a FF defender puts that one slot bubble on me, I check the attributes and can see how weak it is (see this a lot too).

 

So when I play a defender, I "PLAY" that defender. As a FF defender I keep the extra baddies away from the team until they are ready for them (I can keep a whole group in a corner. Oh, I don't get hurt much by this. In conjunction with the Dispersion Bubble which increases our defense, I also train Weave which raises it up even more. Hover is also always on which gives me a little more defense (have two Fly SO's in it, so I move around quickly - adding defense buffs in it, helps very little (one def SO only raise defenses by 1%)).  I also trained medicine (heal self) just in case). Sure, I could train the leadership skills, but what I do to protect the team is so much better and really noticed by the teammates.

 

Most FF defenders I see cast their one slot bubbles and then casts their weak blasts. If you want to use blasts, play a blaster or a sentinel. A team with a defender that trains and slots all of their primary powers and doesn't train the weak blasts makes for a much stronger team.

 

Note: One of the FF powers, "Detention Field" only keeps one foe trapped. Repulsion Field is so much more useful.

[SeraphimKensai]

I guess that's your prerogative but my FF defender has Dark Blast as a secondary, and gets a self heal and blasts that are synergistic with the defense im giving my team. Additionally the added immobilization cone with tentacles helps control the battlefield keeping mobs in place so they can't get to ranged ATs with heavy hitting melee attacks, and an AoE stun that takes 10 minions and lts out of the fight for about 10 seconds at a time.

 

Defenders blasts still have the highest debuff/buff modifiers in the game so using a set that offers debuffs and not using those abilities is a bit asinine to me anyways. Sure if your secondary is fire blast, you'll not out compete a fire blaster but it can still be useful.

[Parabola]

We have two powersets for a reason. Ultimately the only way to progress anything in this game is defeating bad guys, and that involves doing damage. Any team member who doesn't contribute to this isn't pulling all the weight they could. There is no buff/debuff/control set that is so active that there is no time for contributing to damage output and force fields certainly doesn't require that kind of input. Play how you want to play but keep your nonsense 'one true wayism' to yourself.

[Doomguide2005]

     And as I pointed out in one Empathy "healer" build threads unless you are running entirely on SOs the idea your blasts do nothing to help the build is incorrect even if removed from the toolbar.  They're called set bonuses.  Every single blast even unused to blast can potentially contribute to personal defenses, recharge, recovery and so forth.  Nevermind as Parabola points out the damage while behind a Scrappers or Blasters contributes to the overall damage output by the team as well as carries debuffs that weaken the foes ability to either survive the teams attacks or their ability to hurt the team (i.e. defend the team).  None of which should impair the characters ability to use their primary effectively.  About the only point I remotely agree with is I'd love to see those shields/bubbles slotted just as much as I'd like to see the blasts slotted and used.  

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Diantane said:

Since attacks from a defender do very little damage (unless your primary is Kinetics), there's absolutely no reason to train them past level 1 (my prerequisite tier one attack isn't in my toolbar). Because of this we use very little endurance. That blue bar stays near or at the top at all times (unless we're fighting Freakshow's and then only down 25%).

 

...errr, what?

Oh, wait.....

 

Welcome back to the forums.

 

I haven't seen you post for a while.

Now it all makes more sense.

 

Have a good day and have fun.

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

I'd love to see those shields/bubbles slotted just as much as I'd like to see the blasts slotted and used.  

Typically 3 slots: LOTG 7.5 and a +5 Shieldwall Def and Def/End will get you a significantly to the point that excess slotting for def is lost due to diminishing returns. That seems to be my preferred slotting on a lot of def powers, but I'll find ways to make use of the unique +res and +tohit IOs.

[Doomguide2005]

28 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Typically 3 slots: LOTG 7.5 and a +5 Shieldwall Def and Def/End will get you a significantly to the point that excess slotting for def is lost due to diminishing returns. That seems to be my preferred slotting on a lot of def powers, but I'll find ways to make use of the unique +res and +tohit IOs.

     Yes, more less what I'd do as well with FF shields.  Maybe add a slot or so for some damage resistance uniques for Cold shields.  I may also consider 4 slots for either +accuracy (LotG set) or +4.5% neg dmg resist (Shield Wall set) depending on the overall slot demands of the build (etc., etc.).

     If I recall correctly Diantane doesn't tend to play to 50 or use IO sets which color his remarks more than a bit as well.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

3 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

 If I recall correctly Diantane doesn't tend to play to 50 or use IO sets which color his remarks more than a bit as well.

I think based on his there's nothing to do thread he's getting them to 50 and then parking them. I'm not sure if he's still investing in IOs or not.

 

Yes that 4.5 neg energy res can be very helpful on some toons especially when going for a 4star ITF, as that's a ton of negative damage.

[StriderIV]

I hear water blast pairs very well on with FF. Anyone play that combo before?

 

Slightly off topic, but how does FF transfer over to Corruptor’s? With Powerboosted FF’s, is that enough? Or do you need the crazy Defender modifiers?

[biostem]

A defender's secondary isn't there just for show...

[Zect]

14 hours ago, Diantane said:

So when I play a defender, I "PLAY" that defender.

 

A trend I've noticed is that less knowledgeable players tend to fixate on extremely specialized strats (e.g. building only for defense, or only for offense, rather than a balance of both); and insist that such builds are a lot more optimal than they really are. For another example, just look at those awful Tanker builds that take phys perfection, hasten at 49 (if they even have it), dump rech and damage procs completely, skip all their best attacks, toggle on Rune of protection to look better in Mids for forum chest-thumping, and somehow still end up with barely any more mitigation than a balanced build.

 

I have a hypothesis as to why this is so: novice players may not be able to juggle multiple build goals nor perceive synergies in the IO system, and focusing exclusively on one area results in high stats in that narrow area, which gives them an illusion of mastery.

 

If you're new to coh and reading this: don't be fooled by the one-trick pony. Attacks apply debuffs and soft controls, provide defensive IO set bonuses such as res and def, and whittle down enemies, reducing incoming fire. Conversely, strong defenses allow you to play more aggressively, maximize the potential of aoe firepower, survive mistakes, and output superior dps. Jack of all trades, master of none; but better than a master of one.

 

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Slightly off topic, but how does FF transfer over to Corruptor’s? With Powerboosted FF’s, is that enough? Or do you need the crazy Defender modifiers?

 

Here are the numbers for FF bubbles only, slotted 1x lotg 7.5, 1x +5 lotg or shieldwall, with agility or nerve core paragon. This is the optimal slotting, and gives 65.47% +def enhancement value (red ED starts at around 69%). 3-slotting is only worth it if the set bonus from the 3rd slot lets you hit some kind of performance breakpoint. For example, 3x lotg may give you enough HP to be HP capped or close, and on a 4* may be worth the extra slot, depending on what the rest of your build looks like.

 

Corruptor

• Base 18.62
• Powerboost 27.47

 

Defender

• Base 24.82
• Powerboost 39.57

 

At first, it may seem that the fender numbers are significantly higher. However, corrs will also have dispersion bubble and maneuvers which are worth 15-17% def depending on how deep into ED you want to go. The result is that FF corrs can actually softcap naked toons, or fall just shy of it, and the defender numbers end up being overkill in a lot of situations. I do like FF fenders on 4* hard mode, though, if I am the only +def buffer; in that case the extra def really does seem to make things comfier.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Zect

[Mjolnerd]

This is the same almost-logic that leads to Empaths who spend most of their time waiting for someone's green bar to drop but not contributing anything while everyone is at full health because "I'm a pure healer," and frankly: fart noise.

 

1 hour ago, biostem said:

A defender's secondary isn't there just for show...

 

And more to the point, it's also not just there for damage (unless it's Fire, I guess).

 

If you're not blasting, you're not applying that blast's secondary effects either; you're not debuffing enemies' damage resistance, or applying slows, or reducing their accuracy, or whatever your blast set's "thing" is. You're only doing half your job.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Mjolnerd

[Diantane]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:25 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

I guess that's your prerogative but my FF defender has Dark Blast as a secondary, and gets a self heal and blasts that are synergistic with the defense im giving my team. Additionally the added immobilization cone with tentacles helps control the battlefield keeping mobs in place so they can't get to ranged ATs with heavy hitting melee attacks, and an AoE stun that takes 10 minions and lts out of the fight for about 10 seconds at a time.

 

Defenders blasts still have the highest debuff/buff modifiers in the game so using a set that offers debuffs and not using those abilities is a bit asinine to me anyways. Sure if your secondary is fire blast, you'll not out compete a fire blaster but it can still be useful.

 

 If you are slotting those dark blasts with tohit debuffs, then you are correct, but slotting them for damage would be a waste of enhancements and slots. However you are spreading out your defender's duties (jack of all trades, master of none). A primary defense defender or a primary debuff defender would be much more powerful. Its called specialization.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Diantane

[Diantane]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:19 PM, Mjolnerd said:

This is the same almost-logic that leads to Empaths who spend most of their time waiting for someone's green bar to drop but not contributing anything while everyone is at full health because "I'm a pure healer," and frankly: fart noise.

 

 

And more to the point, it's also not just there for damage (unless it's Fire, I guess).

 

If you're not blasting, you're not applying that blast's secondary effects either; you're not debuffing enemies' damage resistance, or applying slows, or reducing their accuracy, or whatever your blast set's "thing" is. You're only doing half your job.

 

I agree with you. but again those blasts must be slotted with debuffs (its why a defender has those enhancements available to them). I made a defender once that could cap all damaging attacks, but that wasn't a high DPS character - just an experiment (Kin/beam). The reason a defender was even added to the available AT lineup was to provide the buffs and debuffs or heals. Not for doing damage. They "can" do damage, but its very weak compared to primary DPS AT's.

[SeraphimKensai]

26 minutes ago, Diantane said:

 

 If you are slotting those dark blasts with tohit debuffs, then you are correct, but slotting them for damage would be a waste of enhancements and slots. However you are spreading out your defender's duties (jack of all trades, master of none). A primary defense defender or a primary debuff defender would be much more powerful. Its called specialization.

OMG. OMG. I've won the day. This is the greatest of all honors. I never thought this day would come, the day that @Diantane conditionally tells me I'm correct. I'm going to cherish this day for the rest of this bowel movement. Thank you so much. Going back all those years back to CoH's beta, I never would of imagined Diantane giving me such high praise. Its my greatest hope to learn the game from a true master like you Diantane. I may have to bring one of my 250 or so IO'd incarnates to be your sidekick so I can learn from your wisdom.

 

Once again thank you.

[Mjolnerd]

5 hours ago, Diantane said:

 

but again those blasts must be slotted with debuffs (its why a defender has those enhancements available to them).

 

What.

 

The.

 

Eff.

 

Are you talking about?

 

That's not how it works. That's not what enhancements do. And all enhancements (apart from ATOs) are available to all ATs as long as they have a power that can take that type of enhancement.

 

Seriously, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. And neither does the complete non-sequitur that followed it -- what does capping damage have to do with anything?

[Psyonico]

Shoot, I'm playing defenders wrong?

 

*Goes back to soloing defenders*