Phantasm Sucks

[Fusaokek]

I think Phantasm is one of THE worst pets in the game. It's supposed to be a blaster type pet yet so many times this dumb ass pet will run into a mob behind my Phantom army or just run ahead into a mob. Is it a blaster or is it a tank? Because it will run right into mobs as if it were a tank and get wrecked like the ineffective glass cannon it is. Moreover the damage it does is outclassed by other damage pets like  fire imps which more than make up for their fragility with good, effective damage.

So why not either overhaul phantasm so that it acts more like a blaster attacking from a distance save for if an enemy gets too close and instead of the energy wave why not the overhead strike ? 

An alternative if changing the Phantasm attack pattern is not an option is upping its  defense/resistance to that of a sentinel. It wouldn't be a tank but it would be able to take a bit more damage when the pet decides to do stupid and run right behind PA into the mob. 

I've also wondered for a long time, why energy and not fire?  Since the illusion is supposed to be the damage dealing control set why not give the phantasm the best dealing damage in the blaster set (before later additions) and go with fire? Personally I'd love to see phantasm hit a crowd with fire rain.  My last suggestion for phantasm involves customization. I love how the players can make the PA look like their character. Is it possible to do the same for Phantasm? That was part of a concept I had for an illusion/rad character I made in which the PA and phantasm were supposed to be pieces of their psyche given physical form expressing the superpowers the primary cannot.

Anyway I just think the phantasm pet gets so outclassed by all the other pets. It doesn't have control, it can't tank and its outclassed in damage by other pets.

 

Edited February 7 by Fusaokek

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Fusaokek said:

I think Phantasm is one of THE worst pets in the game. It's supposed to be a blaster type pet yet so many times this dumb ass pet will run into a mob behind my Phantom army or just run ahead into a mob. Is it a blaster or is it a tank? Because it will run right into mobs as if it were a tank and get wrecked like the ineffective glass cannon it is. Moreover the damage it does is outclassed by other damage pets like  fire imps which more than make up for their fragility with good, effective damage.

So why not either overhaul phantasm so that it acts more like a blaster attacking from a distance save for if an enemy gets too close and instead of the energy wave why not the overhead strike ? 

An alternative if changing the Phantasm attack pattern is not an option is upping its  defense/resistance to that of a sentinel. It wouldn't be a tank but it would be able to take a bit more damage when the pet decides to do stupid and run right behind PA into the mob. 

I've also wondered for a long time, why energy and not fire?  Since the illusion is supposed to be the damage dealing control set why not give the phantasm the best dealing damage in the blaster set (before later additions) and go with fire? Personally I'd love to see phantasm hit a crowd with fire rain.  My last suggestion for phantasm involves customization. I love how the players can make the PA look like their character. Is it possible to do the same for Phantasm? That was part of a concept I had for an illusion/rad character I made in which the PA and phantasm were supposed to be pieces of their psyche given physical form expressing the superpowers the primary cannot.

Anyway I just think the phantasm pet gets so outclassed by all the other pets. It doesn't have control, it can't tank and its outclassed in damage by other pets.

 

 

The main issue the Phantasm has, I think, is that its AI tells it to get Close so that its CONE attack will hit more mobs. The AI needs to be changed so that it doesn't get closer than necessary.

[Vanden]

Phantasm has two major issues that hinder its effectiveness:

 

1. Energy Torrent. This cone power has a range of 40 feet. NPCs are programmed to use ranged cone attacks at half the max range, to increase the odds that it'll hit more than one target. Apparently 20 feet is close enough that the Phantasm will decide it might as well close to melee range. Replace Energy Torrent with Explosive Blast and this issue goes away.

 

2. Decoy Phantasm dies immediately if the target the Phantasm summoned it against dies. Since Decoy Phantasm is a huge portion of Phantasm's total damage output, the pet's total effectiveness can vary wildly depending on what it chooses to summon the decoy against. If the Decoy were made to not die with its target, Phantasm would have much more consistent damage output.

 

Also, its powers should really be changed to do knockdown instead of knockback. AoE knockback is bad enough, but AoE knockback in the hands of an NPC that is completely incapable of using it judiciously? No thank you.

Edited February 8 by Vanden

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

Phantasm has two major issues that hinder its effectiveness:

 

1. Energy Torrent. This cone power has a range of 40 feet. NPCs are programmed to use ranged cone attacks at half the max range, to increase the odds that it'll hit more than one target. Apparently 20 feet is close enough that the Phantasm will decide it might as well close to melee range. Replace Energy Torrent with Explosive Blast and this issue goes away.

 

2. Decoy Phantasm dies immediately if the target the Phantasm summoned it against dies. Since Decoy Phantasm is a huge portion of Phantasm's total damage output, the pet's total effectiveness can vary wildly depending on what it chooses to summon the decoy against. If the Decoy were made to not die with its target, Phantasm would have much more consistent damage output.

 

Also, its powers should really changed to do knockdown instead of knockback. AoE knockback is bad enough, but AoE knockback in the hands of an NPC that is completely incapable of using it judiciously? No thank you.

 

NO pet should be doing Knockback by default. That was recently fixed for MMs, it should apply to ALL pets, including Epic and Lore pets.

[Skyhawke]

If it's rushing in and dying quickly, it IS acting like a Blaster. 

 

 

[laudwic]

Back in the days of Live where being a Ill/Rad Controller was an amazing thing, the original Phantasm was much better than it is today.  Then, it stayed at range and didn't close like it does now.  You could also have multiple copies of it out.  

 

They reduced the summons to one (admittedly, teaching it to ride an elevator is a plus) and changed the AI.  I wish they would just give the AI for the pet in Symphony control as that stays at range.  In my mind, the only real downside of that one is it would also increase the effectiveness of the Phants summoned by Carnie.

[Fusaokek]

11 hours ago, Vanden said:

Phantasm has two major issues that hinder its effectiveness:

 

1. Energy Torrent. This cone power has a range of 40 feet. NPCs are programmed to use ranged cone attacks at half the max range, to increase the odds that it'll hit more than one target. Apparently 20 feet is close enough that the Phantasm will decide it might as well close to melee range. Replace Energy Torrent with Explosive Blast and this issue goes away.

 

2. Decoy Phantasm dies immediately if the target the Phantasm summoned it against dies. Since Decoy Phantasm is a huge portion of Phantasm's total damage output, the pet's total effectiveness can vary wildly depending on what it chooses to summon the decoy against. If the Decoy were made to not die with its target, Phantasm would have much more consistent damage output.

 

Also, its powers should really changed to do knockdown instead of knockback. AoE knockback is bad enough, but AoE knockback in the hands of an NPC that is completely incapable of using it judiciously? No thank you.

Well damn! It's clear you thought this through. Your suggestions are far better than mine

[Fusaokek]

6 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

If it's rushing in and dying quickly, it IS acting like a Blaster. 

 

 

A very bad blaster

[Riverdusk]

12 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

NO pet should be doing Knockback by default. That was recently fixed for MMs, it should apply to ALL pets, including Epic and Lore pets.

 

While we are fixing pets, I'd also add in that all pets should be pushable or walk through like MM henchmen were made to be.  It is especially bad with phantom army as you have 3 immovable pets that still end up trapping or blocking me or teammates in certain spots (sewer map chokepoints or small office rooms can be especially bad).  

 

Not sure why that improvement was made to MM henchmen but not to controller (and others) pets.  It isn't a power improvement thing, it completely a quality of life thing.

 

Back to original poster, I'd still vote electric control's gremlins as the worst pet of all, but yeah, phantasm is down there.

[Shin Magmus]

+1 for changing Phantasm's KB to KD by default.  The fact is, even disregarding the other issues with this pet, Phantasm is actively detrimental to you and your teammates until you waste a slot and convert its KB.  This is a weak pet that asks you to waste a slot for no reason, which is terrible when directly compared to other pets.  Lots of Illusion Doms just skip Phantasm cus it's not worth it.  Illusion Controllers are more incentivized to take Phantasm and try to keep him alive but that is a tall order most of the time. 

[Ghost]

On 2/7/2025 at 1:37 AM, Wavicle said:

 

NO pet should be doing Knockback by default. That was recently fixed for MMs, it should apply to ALL pets, including Epic and Lore pets.

I disagree.

 

All pets should have only 2 powers.

1. Knockback

2. Group fly

 

and every few minutes they should yell out “sitter looking for farm”

 

 

 

[arcane]

Problem with this thread is twofold:

 

(1) Illusion Control as a whole is easily one of the best powersets in the game, and it could easily be considered to be in “Should not be buffed under any circumstances” territory as a result.

 

(2) The sub-issue of Knockback has obviously been dealt with over and over on this forum, and, until the developers signal a major shift in their thinking, we have already established that “Slot a Sudden Acceleration Proc” is the appropriate way to address any player’s aversion to Knockback.
 

That being said, it sounds like there is room for improvements to the Phantasm’s AI, which I would certainly support.

[Fusaokek]

8 hours ago, arcane said:

Problem with this thread is twofold:

 

(1) Illusion Control as a whole is easily one of the best powersets in the game, and it could easily be considered to be in “Should not be buffed under any circumstances” territory as a result.

 

(2) The sub-issue of Knockback has obviously been dealt with over and over on this forum, and, until the developers signal a major shift in their thinking, we have already established that “Slot a Sudden Acceleration Proc” is the appropriate way to address any player’s aversion to Knockback.
 

That being said, it sounds like there is room for improvements to the Phantasm’s AI, which I would certainly support.

Except I wasn't asking for Illusion to be 'buffed'. I was asking to make 1 of 2 changes, either A give phantasm the defense/ resistance of a sentinel to compensate for the broken AI when it runs into fights instead of hanging back and gets obliterated or change the AI to make it smarter and hold back in order to do damage from a distance with a better KB if the enemy gets closer. Granted I did suggest changing it from energy blast to fire so that it could possibly have fire rain. The other suggestion I made was the ability to customize so that I could have phantasm look like my character in the same way as PA.   Actually what most chimed in with was AI changes not 'buffs.'

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Fusaokek said:

Except I wasn't asking for Illusion to be 'buffed'. I was asking to make 1 of 2 changes, either A give phantasm the defense/ resistance of a sentinel to compensate for the broken AI when it runs into fights instead of hanging back and gets obliterated or change the AI to make it smarter and hold back in order to do damage from a distance with a better KB if the enemy gets closer. Granted I did suggest changing it from energy blast to fire so that it could possibly have fire rain. The other suggestion I made was the ability to customize so that I could have phantasm look like my character in the same way as PA.   Actually what most chimed in with was AI changes not 'buffs.'

 

Any improvement is a buff. Those suggested changes to Phantasm would improve its damage and survivability, making them buffs. I happen to agree that Phantasm should hang back, and that its attacks should all be knockdown instead of knockback, but I'm not going to deny that those would be buffs. Obviously they are buffs. You were in fact asking for Illusion to be buffed, you were just specific about what exactly you wanted buffed.

[Fusaokek]

On 2/9/2025 at 7:21 PM, Wavicle said:

 

Any improvement is a buff. Those suggested changes to Phantasm would improve its damage and survivability, making them buffs. I happen to agree that Phantasm should hang back, and that its attacks should all be knockdown instead of knockback, but I'm not going to deny that those would be buffs. Obviously they are buffs. You were in fact asking for Illusion to be buffed, you were just specific about what exactly you wanted buffed.

Hard disagree. A buff is where you are upping the damage, the defense or control of something. I would even go as far as to say since phantasm only has 3 attacks to other pets 5 that adding two more would be a buff.  The two main things I suggested would constitute AI changes in order for the pet to be more effective. Does it potentially have the effect of the pet being more damaging? yes but in the sense of making changes to the AI in order to make the pet more effective. Heck! my other suggestion to change it to fire doesn't even count as a buff since all damage sets damage equally. My suggestion of fire rain while AOE is not the most damaging fire ability.

I kind of think you're being contrarian or just resistant to my suggestion because it is change. Well they have made changes to the enemies and in cases like Freaks and Counsel have given them buffs. The Dev's have also made changes to powers sets in the past, why not this?

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Fusaokek said:

Hard disagree. A buff is where you are upping the damage, the defense or control of something.

A buff is anything that improves, that is buffs, something. So @Wavicle is right on that point.

 

26 minutes ago, Fusaokek said:

I would even go as far as to say since phantasm only has 3 attacks to other pets 5 that adding two more would be a buff. 

Gremlins, Fire Imps, Tri Cannon, and Animate Stone would like to say hello.

 

Bear in mind that I have no stake in this discussion. However, your comments are wrong.

[Wavicle]

56 minutes ago, Fusaokek said:

Hard disagree. A buff is where you are upping the damage, the defense or control of something. I would even go as far as to say since phantasm only has 3 attacks to other pets 5 that adding two more would be a buff.  The two main things I suggested would constitute AI changes in order for the pet to be more effective. Does it potentially have the effect of the pet being more damaging? yes but in the sense of making changes to the AI in order to make the pet more effective. Heck! my other suggestion to change it to fire doesn't even count as a buff since all damage sets damage equally. My suggestion of fire rain while AOE is not the most damaging fire ability.

I kind of think you're being contrarian or just resistant to my suggestion because it is change. Well they have made changes to the enemies and in cases like Freaks and Counsel have given them buffs. The Dev's have also made changes to powers sets in the past, why not this?

 

The changes you suggested WOULD improve the damage and survivability of the Phantasm. It is therefore a buff. It's really not a matter of opinion.

 

Also, you did not read what I said. I am NOT being contrarian or resistant to your suggestion. I AGREED with your suggestion, but I also explained why it is unlikely to happen.

 

I DO WANT the Phantasm to have better AI and no Knockback. But I am under no illusion (ahem) that such changes would be anything but a buff to a set that overall is doing just fine.

[Wavicle]

However, in the absence of a buff, there are things WE can do to improve the survivability and damage of our Phantasm.

Obviously, there's Overwhelming Force KB>KD.

There are Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pet special IOs to increase his defense and damage resistance.

At level 50 there are Destiny and Hybrid powers that can help our pets.

There are also a couple of options to assist in the Power Pools and Epic Pools, including Damage Resistance Debuffs, Leadership powers, and even Medicine powers.

 

Like I said, even with all that available, I would also still appreciate improvements to Phantasm's AI, but the above options can help some in the meantime.

[Fusaokek]

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

The changes you suggested WOULD improve the damage and survivability of the Phantasm. It is therefore a buff. It's really not a matter of opinion.

 

Also, you did not read what I said. I am NOT being contrarian or resistant to your suggestion. I AGREED with your suggestion, but I also explained why it is unlikely to happen.

 

I DO WANT the Phantasm to have better AI and no Knockback. But I am under no illusion (ahem) that such changes would be anything but a buff to a set that overall is doing just fine.

I misunderstood. I apologize for saying you were being contrarian.  I'll not debate rather or not it's a buff. I'll just say it's not a game breaking one or gives one set an excessive advantage over another. My issue is that because of some poor AI programming the effectiveness of the pet is less than others. It makes playing the illusion set frustrating because of the scramble to try to keep it alive when it heads right into a mob with only single attack powers. With fire imps you understand why they do that, they are mini scrappers and are effective in what they do. They are meant to be mini scrappers in the same sense that the earth pet Mr. poo is supposed to be a tank or brute, or singularity is more of a controller tank. They are effective, especially in hands of a capable player that knows how to maximize them. 

The same cannot be said for phantasm. The tactic that works best for that would be keeping the pet in the back while Phantom Army acts as temporary tanks while the main pet dishes out damage from the back. The problem is that all goes to hell the moment you summon PA and phantasm runs head long into the mob with them! What I described is precisely the tactics I use with my dark dark controller with decidedly better results.  So, the AI attack pattern  is something they could and should change especially if as another pointed out its program had been changed before. Never say never, if enough people ask or bring it to their attention changes can and will be made. Or if nothing else and explanation from dev team as to why they feel the changes aren't needed.

[arcane]

30 minutes ago, Fusaokek said:

I misunderstood. I apologize for saying you were being contrarian.  I'll not debate rather or not it's a buff. I'll just say it's not a game breaking one or gives one set an excessive advantage over another. My issue is that because of some poor AI programming the effectiveness of the pet is less than others. It makes playing the illusion set frustrating because of the scramble to try to keep it alive when it heads right into a mob with only single attack powers. With fire imps you understand why they do that, they are mini scrappers and are effective in what they do. They are meant to be mini scrappers in the same sense that the earth pet Mr. poo is supposed to be a tank or brute, or singularity is more of a controller tank. They are effective, especially in hands of a capable player that knows how to maximize them. 

The same cannot be said for phantasm. The tactic that works best for that would be keeping the pet in the back while Phantom Army acts as temporary tanks while the main pet dishes out damage from the back. The problem is that all goes to hell the moment you summon PA and phantasm runs head long into the mob with them! What I described is precisely the tactics I use with my dark dark controller with decidedly better results.  So, the AI attack pattern  is something they could and should change especially if as another pointed out its program had been changed before. Never say never, if enough people ask or bring it to their attention changes can and will be made. Or if nothing else and explanation from dev team as to why they feel the changes aren't needed.

I don’t think anyone is opposed to better AI. Knockback removal and new attacks are a different story though.

[mistagoat]

Yeah, Phantasm would benefit from some bonus brains but I think he just needs ranged attacks that don't make him run into melee range. Or maybe increase the range of his cone but that seems like cheating.

While I'm certainly no fan of energy blast I don't think giving him Rain of Fire would be any better. For some silly reason mobs don't like when fire rains down on their heads so they scatter like crazy if you don't have something to keep them in place. I'd think that would be even worse than the KB because it'll affect more mobs and offers less mitigation since they'll just run 10 feet to get out of the rain and then start attacking again.

 

All that being said, Illusion is still pretty great! It just sorta demands that you embrace the chaos which runs somewhat counter to most controllers.

Full immersion therapy: try an Ill/Storm! Great fun, great damage but good luck being subtle 🙂

 

[Wavicle]

If they do ever improve the AI of Phantasm, hopefully they give the Warshade fluffies the same treatment.

[Wavicle]

What if they just made a new version of Energy Torrent, just for the Phantasm, that looks like Energy Torrent, has the same number of targets as Energy Torrent, but is in fact a Targeted AoE with the same range as their Power Bolt?

[Fusaokek]

On 2/14/2025 at 9:51 AM, mistagoat said:

Yeah, Phantasm would benefit from some bonus brains but I think he just needs ranged attacks that don't make him run into melee range. Or maybe increase the range of his cone but that seems like cheating.

While I'm certainly no fan of energy blast I don't think giving him Rain of Fire would be any better. For some silly reason mobs don't like when fire rains down on their heads so they scatter like crazy if you don't have something to keep them in place. I'd think that would be even worse than the KB because it'll affect more mobs and offers less mitigation since they'll just run 10 feet to get out of the rain and then start attacking again.

 

All that being said, Illusion is still pretty great! It just sorta demands that you embrace the chaos which runs somewhat counter to most controllers.

Full immersion therapy: try an Ill/Storm! Great fun, great damage but good luck being subtle 🙂

 

I tend to agree with you, illusion is a good damage controller set. I just happen to think what holds it back is it's broken pet.

[Fusaokek]

On 2/14/2025 at 4:23 PM, Wavicle said:

What if they just made a new version of Energy Torrent, just for the Phantasm, that looks like Energy Torrent, has the same number of targets as Energy Torrent, but is in fact a Targeted AoE with the same range as their Power Bolt?

Personally after one of the commenters suggested it I think I would prefer power bolt over energy torrent