Secondary Mutation : De-evolution

[Xion80]

I really don't see the point in this debuff not being removed from the power. It isn't fun and can happen at the worst of times. The other two options don't even have an equivalent down side.

 

Inner inspiration: It comes through in the clutch! There are zero debuffs, and worst that can happen is you don't get the inspiration you're looking for. Oh no! 🙄

 

Mystic Fortune: You give your teammates amazing buffs 9/10! What's the worst that can happen? The Fool: - To-hit debuff with a recharge and movement buff. Nasty, but it can be powered through. It's not really a punishment.

 

Secondary Mutation: Half the buff options are trash! Acute sense, and Heightened Speed, I'm looking at you! Pain Tolerance and Quick Reflexes are useful! 50/50 on the good or bad, no problem. What's the worst that can happen!?  De-Evolution! Turn into a Rikti Monkey, and lose access to all your powers you selfish bastard! Oh, and you're still a target on the battlefield! How is this even considered balanced?

 

Solution: Take some debuffs from the Crey Lab chemical explosions and rework them into a new De-Evolution debuff, minus the nonsense. 

 

Locking heroes out of ALL powers is overboard and ridiculous.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

Solution: Take some debuffs from the Crey Lab chemical explosions and rework them into a new De-Evolution debuff, minus the nonsense. 

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_acc.woozy&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_dam.weaken&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_recovery.lethargic&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_regeneration.sick&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_slow.slow&at=arachnos_soldier

 

I'd rather spend 60 seconds waiting than 3 minutes crippled, thanks.

[biostem]

Or... just don't use the power if you don't want to potentially be changed into a Rikti monkey...

[macskull]

I do wish you'd con friendly to Rikti and Lost if you got turned into a monkey. Personally, I get around the small chance for it to happen by simply... not activating the power while I'm in combat.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

Personally, I get around the small chance for it to happen by simply... not activating the power while I'm in combat.

 

[Xion80]

7 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_acc.woozy&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_dam.weaken&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_recovery.lethargic&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_debuff_regeneration.sick&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tech_lab_slow.slow&at=arachnos_soldier

 

I'd rather spend 60 seconds waiting than 3 minutes crippled, thanks.

Yup, all are very nasty Indeed, but I did state a rework. Dosen't have to be the exact verbatim 3 mins.

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

Yup, all are very nasty Indeed, but I did state a rework. Dosen't have to be the exact verbatim 3 mins.

Or maybe just do like @macskull said and don't use Secondary Mutation in combat? The buffs last for 20 minutes. Being a monkey lasts for 1 minute. If you aren't in combat, then turning into a monkey doesn't hurt you. And if it is a buff instead, you aren't at risk of it timing out any time soon. The Devolution effect is fun and funny.

[twozerofoxtrot]

9 hours ago, Xion80 said:

What's the worst that can happen? The Fool

 

Apologies for being a pedant but The Tower does 20% unresistable max hp damage, if you're over 25% hp. Eye of the beholder and all but for my money that's worse than -3% ToHit.

 

Inner Inspiration is probably just too good for a free power. I take it on everything unless I have a strong RP reason not to.

[El D]

If you're in combat and it's gone so badly you're spamming at icons to stay alive to the point where you hit Secondary Mutation for a random 'Save Me!' hope... You were already going to be defeated.

 

If you're hitting it in combat just because you forgot to use it at the start of a mission and get monkey'd, well...

 

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

I do wish you'd con friendly to Rikti and Lost if you got turned into a monkey. Personally, I get around the small chance for it to happen by simply... not activating the power while I'm in combat.

 

I get turned into a Rikti Monkey, I'm getting stuck in and giving the mobs everything I've got!

 

 

[Frozen Burn]

10 hours ago, Xion80 said:

I really don't see the point in this debuff not being removed from the power. It isn't fun and can happen at the worst of times. The other two options don't even have an equivalent down side.

 

Inner inspiration: It comes through in the clutch! There are zero debuffs, and worst that can happen is you don't get the inspiration you're looking for. Oh no! 🙄

 

Mystic Fortune: You give your teammates amazing buffs 9/10! What's the worst that can happen? The Fool: - To-hit debuff with a recharge and movement buff. Nasty, but it can be powered through. It's not really a punishment.

 

Secondary Mutation: Half the buff options are trash! Acute sense, and Heightened Speed, I'm looking at you! Pain Tolerance and Quick Reflexes are useful! 50/50 on the good or bad, no problem. What's the worst that can happen!?  De-Evolution! Turn into a Rikti Monkey, and lose access to all your powers you selfish bastard! Oh, and you're still a target on the battlefield! How is this even considered balanced?

 

Solution: Take some debuffs from the Crey Lab chemical explosions and rework them into a new De-Evolution debuff, minus the nonsense. 

 

Locking heroes out of ALL powers is overboard and ridiculous.

 

Mystic Fortune also has one that will take away like a qurter of your HPs... I think it's "Death" that does it, even though the Wiki doesn't mention it.  

 

MF and SM both came into the game together.  A buff for yourself, or a buff for your friend, but there is a chance of downside.  Yes, you can turn into a monkey and possibly die, or you can take a quarter of your friend's HPs and potentially kill them while they are in battle (if they accept the cards being tossed at them).  

 

A game without any downsides at all is no game at all.  So many things in this game are easy to walk through, these are just 2 things to roll the dice with.  

 

Don't like the potential consequences, then don't roll the dice on them.  It's that simple.  

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Mystic Fortune also has one that will take away like a qurter of your HPs... I think it's "Death" that does it, even though the Wiki doesn't mention it.  

It's the Tower.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mystic_Fortune

(It's the Damage (Self) notice.)

 

Edit: Which @twozerofoxtrot posted. (Sorry, @twozerofoxtrot.)

 

Edited Sunday at 06:30 AM by Rudra

[Skyhawke]

I rarely take the other two, Secondary Mutation just because the downside is annoying, but Inner Inspiration has a loooooong recharge timer. That, in my opinion, is its downside. If you could spam high end inspirations every couple minutes, it'd be OP.

[Xion80]

1) Sorry, but none of the debuffs mentioned have any dramatic effect equivalent to what Devolution  brings to the table.  Tower doesn't hold a candle to Devolution . Never seen a player die or complain from receiving it,  as it can be powered through. I've received it and the paltry 25% health loss was restored in moments  before I even loaded into the instant. Quite laughable IMO.

 

2) If Devolution is "funny and fun" to you, I guess trolling the Hamidon league is "funny an fun" for the loser who made it disappear so league would fail the raid. I wonder, was the "solution" "If you don't like it, don't raid Hami" given to the disgruntled player posting about it? NO!?  Then what's your problem?

 

3) The "long wait" on Inner Inspiration is a weak argument. Inspirations flow with continued mission play. It will not stop you from having access to powers. Most player have full inspiration trays, or inspirations ready to go in their email box. You have plenty of options to counter the wait time. There are no "counters" to the Devolution effect once it hits. Being on a mission and dying because of it's isn't my arguement. The fact it happens at all is the problem. The cons out weigh the pros.

 

4) A great solution would be to add a new option to what's is already there. Lets call it The Perfect Specimen. For the next 20 mins the player recieves the positives of all the Crey Lab buffs. With such a high risk in Secondary Mutation like Devolution. That would perfectly "counter balance" said risk.

 

The "million dollar wedge" is missing from the "Wheel of Chance" for Secondary Mutation. Can't have "crippling" high risk, without an "epic" high reward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 06:46 PM by Xion80

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

2) If Devolution is "funny and fun" to you, I guess trolling the Hamidon league is "funny an fun" for the loser who made it disappear so league would fail the raid. I wonder, was the "solution" "If you don't like it, don't raid Hami" given to the disgruntled player posting about it? NO!?  Then what's your problem?

You have no argument. There isn't even a comparison for the false analogy you have provided. Secondary Mutation is an affects self power. It only affects the character that uses it. Someone trolling a raid is not. And if knowing that there is a chance for Secondary Mutation to turn you into a monkey, you still choose to use it in combat? That is entirely on you. Not on other players trolling you. Not on the game trolling you. Entirely on you for rolling those dice in the middle of combat and coming up with a bad roll. If you can't handle dealing with the possible effects of powers that you as a player choose to use, then it isn't up to the game or anyone else to fix that for you. It's up to you.

 

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

4) A great solution would be to add a new option to what's is already there. Lets call it The Perfect Specimen. For the next 20 mins the player recieves the positives of all the Crey Lab buffs. With such a high risk in Secondary Mutation like Devolution. That would perfectly "counter balance" said risk.

I don't know how to respond to this nonsense in a way that won't get me banned. (Edit: There are 6 possible results for Secondary Mutation. You have a 16.7% chance of being turned into a monkey for a whole minute as opposed to an 83.3% chance of a positive buff for 20 minutes. And because you can't figure out to not be in combat when you use it just in case you get turned into a monkey, now you also want another power that gives you all the rest of them? You know what? I can support this. Another effect in Secondary Mutation that grants all its effects at once. Including being turned into a monkey. Only now you are a monkey for the full 20 minutes of the buffs as well. That almost sounds fair for the ridiculous buff you are asking for. It still needs more penalties, but it is a start.)

 

Edit again: I got it! This new option gives you all the buffs available to Secondary Mutation plus all the buffs possible from destroying the labs, does so for 20 minutes, but you are a Rikti Monkey for those 20 minutes with normal Rikti Monkey stats that the buffs are applied to and lack any ability to do anything like Null the Gull turned you into a gull.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:37 PM by Rudra

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

The "million dollar wedge" is missing from the "Wheel of Chance" for Secondary Mutation. Can't have "crippling" high risk, without an "epic" high reward.

You can when it's a free power that's supposed to be more for flavor than for min-maxers.  Not every click or power needs to be a net gain in your character's capabilities - some items in the game were put there for fun.  The chance of being turned into a Rikti Monkey is the fun in deciding whether to use secondary mutation or not.

Edited Sunday at 07:54 PM by biostem

[Xion80]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You have no argument. There isn't even a comparison for the false analogy you have provided. Secondary Mutation is an affects self power. It only affects the character that uses it. Someone trolling a raid is not. And if knowing that there is a chance for Secondary Mutation to turn you into a monkey, you still choose to use it in combat? That is entirely on you. Not on other players trolling you. Not on the game trolling you. Entirely on you for rolling those dice in the middle of combat and coming up with a bad roll. If you can't handle dealing with the possible effects of powers that you as a player choose to use, then it isn't up to the game or anyone else to fix that for you. It's up to you.

 

I don't know how to respond to this nonsense in a way that won't get me banned.

Let me help you Rudra! "I have no argument!" Ok,  but let me stop "YOU" right there!  You're right! Well, when it comes to YOU, I shouldn't.

 

You made a PSA, an I quote.. "welcome to being blocked" about blocking me, so why post on my topic with toxicity? You don't have to respond to my post. No one forced you, yet here you are, commenting on the guy you blocked! The "analogy" wasn't really about the Secondy Mutation, but the snarky responses being the common denominator by a select reoccurring few.

 

I've seen a plethora of your "toxic responses" on the suggestion boards. I don't say a word no matter what you say good or bad, as I'm not checking for you! Maybe you should follow your own advice. I won't go off topic anymore for you in the future, and I care even less about your implications to get yourself banned. Next time you see my post, cross the street!

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

You made a PSA, an I quote.. "welcome to being blocked" about blocking me, so why post on my topic with toxicity?

So you're saying I shouldn't give people second chances? And I'm not being any more toxic in my posts than you are choosing to read into them.

 

As far as the OP goes? It's simple. Secondary Mutation is a player usable gamble. You already know what that gamble consists of. You already know what can happen if you gamble and lose. So if you choose to use Secondary Mutation while already in combat? The results are entirely on you. Not the game. Not other players. Not the devs. You. Because you already knew what could happen, assumed it wouldn't, gambled in combat, and got hit with the inevitability of statistics.

 

Edit: And as a heads up? Choosing to attack me as a poster on the forums does not help your position as the author of the OP.

 

Edited Sunday at 08:21 PM by Rudra

[Xion80]

25 minutes ago, biostem said:

You can when it's a free power that's supposed to be more for flavor than for min-maxers.  Not every click or power needs to be a net gain in your character's capabilities - some items in the game were put there for fun.  The chance of being turned into a Rikti Monkey is the fun in deciding whether to use secondary mutation or not.

I agree! It should be flavor. Everyone else gets flavor for there choice. Why does my flavor come with backwash?

 

These right here are fun powers to me. All dope selections.

Snowball

Bat to hit folks

Frisbee toss

[Xion80]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So you're saying I shouldn't give people second chances? And I'm not being any more toxic in my posts than you are choosing to read into them.

 

As far as the OP goes? It's simple. Secondary Mutation is a player usable gamble. You already know what that gamble consists of. You already know what can happen if you gamble and lose. So if you choose to use Secondary Mutation while already in combat? The results are entirely on you. Not the game. Not other players. Not the devs. You. Because you already knew what could happen, assumed it wouldn't, gambled in combat, and got hit with the inevitability of statistics.

 

Edit: And as a heads up? Choosing to attack me as a poster on the forums does not help your position as the author of the OP.

 

Rudra, you already set the precedent for our interactions with your first impression. I don't need anything from you, and I'm not seeking to "advance my position" on a suggestion board. You're not "under attack" I'm simply calling it as it is. We don't mesh! I don't wanna be with you anymore. My commentary has you putting your hands on me, and I'm not have it! Consider us broken up!

 

[Xion80]

16 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

Rudra, you already set the precedent for our interactions with your first impression. I don't need anything from you, and I'm not seeking to "advance my position" on a suggestion board. You're not "under attack" I'm simply calling it as it is. We don't mesh! I don't wanna be with you anymore. My commentary has you putting your hands on me, and I'm not have it! Consider us broken up!

 

Nothing to be confused about. This is me being as cordial as I can be.  I'm opening the door for you to make a exit. No snark. No nasty nice. No diss track. I know what I can turn into, and I'm not having it on my favorite game forum. The jokes are just me controlling my energy. Good day.

[lemming]

Personally, we just need to drop the recharge on Monkey Gas.   60 seconds recharge is too high.

[biostem]

2 hours ago, Xion80 said:

I agree! It should be flavor. Everyone else gets flavor for there choice. Why does my flavor come with backwash?

It doesn't, you just have that gene, (or don't have that gene, I keep forgetting), that makes cilantro taste like soap...

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Xion80 said:

The "million dollar wedge" is missing from the "Wheel of Chance" for Secondary Mutation.

 

False equivalency.  Secondary Mutation is the self-affecting version of Mystic Fortune, and the Devolution power was a thematic replacement for The Tower.  Secondary Mutation doesn't have a "million dollar wedge" because Mystic Fortune doesn't have one.  These two powers are balanced against one another, and Devolution is the alternative, thematic approach to The Tower's -HP and +Damage.

 

What you're requesting is for Secondary Mutation to be redesigned outside of that balance paradigm.  You want the thematic element replaced with crippling debuffs and clearly overpowered buffs, and in complete disregard for the ramifications of such a change.  It's not even close to balanced, either against Mystic Fortune or in the game as a whole.  It's a non-starter.  They're not going to do it.

 

And going back to the beginning...

 

On 2/22/2025 at 2:22 PM, Xion80 said:

The Fool: - To-hit debuff with a recharge and movement buff. Nasty, but it can be powered through.

 

You complain about a 3% ToHit Debuff, refer to it as "nasty", as something you have to "power through", and then ask for a 50% ToHit Debuff?

 

Really?

[Xion80]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

You want the thematic element replaced with crippling debuffs and clearly overpowered buffs, and in complete disregard for the ramifications of such a change. 

What I'd like is the "removal of denied access to my powers" if I had the choice. Hell, take away one of my three mitigation option, or cripple all three. The rest is re-workable suggestion. Nothing stated is to be etched in stone on the CoH Bible.

 

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

They're not going to do it.

And I'm completely fine with whatever they do! That's the beauty of the suggestion/feedback board. So funny when statements like this are made. We have no kind of power to dictate what the developers will or won't do. 

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

False equivalency.  Secondary Mutation is the self-affecting version of Mystic Fortune, and the Devolution power was a thematic replacement for The Tower.

Thematically!? I guess. From first hand, boots on the ground experience...Nah! 25% hp loss vs all powers denied is not the same on any level! If Tower "was" the equivalent of Devolution, its certainly not anymore. 

 

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

You complain about a 3% ToHit Debuff, refer to it as "nasty

I got the numbers mixed on the negative to hit and the recharge bonus. Simple mistake.