QOL Request: Allow for Universal Travel IO's to be Slotted into Prestige Sprints

[Lucious]

Sorry but I don't really agree with this. What happened to risk for reward and having to make sacrifices for your build? I don't think being able to slot your sprints with this is the way forward, it just makes it a no brainer for any build, no thought, just an easy auto 20kb protection solution. I appreciate Barrier putting this suggestion forward but, if you are going to give builds a boost like this one then you need to take something away.

[Banana Man]

all this change does is remove pointless tedium that adds nothing to the game in any way, shape or form.

 

 

Agreed, with the exception of the slow resist implications.

[Lucious]

all this change does is remove pointless tedium that adds nothing to the game in any way, shape or form.

 

 

Agreed, with the exception of the slow resist implications.

 

Then why not remove Kb from pvp all together because that's exactly what this does. I mean everything else has been taken away, might as well continue the process.

 

[Epsilon Assassin]

Then why not remove Kb from pvp all together because that's exactly what this does. I mean everything else has been taken away, might as well continue the process.

 

It doesn't though, is the problem.

 

The issue here is sets, such as Ninjitsu, and some variants of Fire, just as examples, cannot build enough KB resist to actually be viable in certain PvP modes. Where as most builds can.

 

This change doesn't remove KB from PvP. Anyone who knows how to PvP is already playing a build that is, effectively, immune to it in PvP. What this change does do is allow other power sets to come into the PvP world that would, otherwise, be rendered useless because of KB.  Regardless of whether this change goes through, or not, does not improve the viability of KB. Anyone smart is going to pay the KB tax. However what this does do is make it so I can play Ninjitsu instead of EA on my stalker, or Fire instead of Bio on my tank.

[Epsilon Assassin]

 

Agreed, with the exception of the slow resist implications.

 

Slow resist in general is an entirely different discussion and a whole different basket of fun that probably needs to be looked at in general for PvP.

[Firi]

You can already put IO SETS in sprints. The only new thing would be allowing universal IO sets

[Lucious]

Then why not remove Kb from pvp all together because that's exactly what this does. I mean everything else has been taken away, might as well continue the process.

 

It doesn't though, is the problem.

 

The issue here is sets, such as Ninjitsu, and some variants of Fire, just as examples, cannot build enough KB resist to actually be viable in certain PvP modes. Where as most builds can.

 

This change doesn't remove KB from PvP. Anyone who knows how to PvP is already playing a build that is, effectively, immune to it in PvP. What this change does do is allow other power sets to come into the PvP world that would, otherwise, be rendered useless because of KB.  Regardless of whether this change goes through, or not, does not improve the viability of KB. Anyone smart is going to pay the KB tax. However what this does do is make it so I can play Ninjitsu instead of EA on my stalker, or Fire instead of Bio on my tank.

 

I hear you, i really do, but this is just a quick fix to the bigger problem and will not really change anything like you say. I would rather see time and resources that are available used to improve pvp in bringing back balance and not dumbing everything down even further, this feels like it is another step backwards, not forwards. I realize a suggestion is just that, a suggestion and it's good to see people discussing changes and ideas. I just really think there are many, many changes needed to the mechanics of pvp before changes like this are implemented but each to their own, people have different opinions and that is what these forums are for, to discuss possible improvements whether I agree or not so Ill leave it at that and let others have their say and opinions.

[barrier]

Lucious hates my guts, so take his comments with a grain of salt.

 

The notion that you must "take something back" when providing a general buff is kind of naive. What matters here is viability and QOL.

 

Regarding viability: Does this change broaden the potential number of power sets viable in a PVP setting? I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that it does not. It's not only fire and ninjitsu, it's controllers and dominators that can't rely on slotted control effects because there are not enough slots to play the damage race game and also deal with kb reqs.

 

If you're going to argue against that point: I've seen three controllers in kickball. Three. Something is clearly broken when you only two of them were playing disruption and the other was an emp. Doms? Probably 1 per 12 blasters and 1 per 4 emps. Those ATs gain the most from the extra slots. They are so underrepresented that any buff, however broad, that unevenly favors them, is a good change.

 

If you're going to argue QOL: just look at every time I've explained KB mags in the PVP discord. A new player shouldnt have to go from mag 4 kb resistance for most pve content to a x10+ increase just to partake in PVP. It makes no sense, and it's a by-product of a binary system with no skill-based counters (aside from ths kinda "try to fall on slopey slots outside of LOS") .

 

If you're going to argue that this makes it too easy, you might as well argue away the /ah command and breakfrees, then base buffs too. Or all inspirations for that matter. There are half a dozen ways to counter KB in PVE, and none involve instanty dying on non-repeatable content because you didn't slot for 44 kb protection on your fire tank.

[Vanden]

I don't know how people can be so deep in the PvP mindset that they can miss how opening up 20 KB protection to every character is going to make major shockwaves in PvE. It would basically eliminate KB on players as an element of the game.  If building for KB protection is so essential to the PvP experience that letting us get so much with no sacrifices qualifies as a QoL improvement, why not do what I suggested on the first page and put KB protection into the PvP resists that every AT gets?

[Chaos Ex Machina]

QOL REQUEST:

 

Just give everybody 100 KB protection automatically and avoid the hassle /s

 

::)

[Lucious]

Lucious hates my guts, so take his comments with a grain of salt.

 

The notion that you must "take something back" when providing a general buff is kind of naive. What matters here is viability and QOL.

 

Regarding viability: Does this change broaden the potential number of power sets viable in a PVP setting? I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that it does not. It's not only fire and ninjitsu, it's controllers and dominators that can't rely on slotted control effects because there are not enough slots to play the damage race game and also deal with kb reqs.

 

If you're going to argue against that point: I've seen three controllers in kickball. Three. Something is clearly broken when you only two of them were playing disruption and the other was an emp. Doms? Probably 1 per 12 blasters and 1 per 4 emps. Those ATs gain the most from the extra slots. They are so underrepresented that any buff, however broad, that unevenly favors them, is a good change.

 

If you're going to argue QOL: just look at every time I've explained KB mags in the PVP discord. A new player shouldnt have to go from mag 4 kb resistance for most pve content to a x10+ increase just to partake in PVP. It makes no sense, and it's a by-product of a binary system with no skill-based counters (aside from ths kinda "try to fall on slopey slots outside of LOS") .

 

If you're going to argue that this makes it too easy, you might as well argue away the /ah command and breakfrees, then base buffs too. Or all inspirations for that matter. There are half a dozen ways to counter KB in PVE, and none involve instanty dying on non-repeatable content because you didn't slot for 44 kb protection on your fire tank.

 

Wow don't flatter yourself Barrier, how old are you man, 13? Why and how do you think that I hate your guts?! Because you came into a convo with nothing constructive to say, so i said to sit down and shutup if you didnt? Now i hate your guts?!!! Grow up. I don't even know you, why would I hate you?! Im sorry if I upset your self entitlement Barrier but my feedback was honest and was my P.O.V and had nothing to do with hating your guts or personal in anyway shape or form. I had seen the link you put up in Discord as you wanted opinions, but it seems you only want people that you know that will side with you giving their opinions by the look of it.

 

Oh and way to give your side of the story, to try and make me look I'm here as a part of a vendetta, seriously way to come across as a douche. We can copy and paste the convo right here if people want to know the truth instead of trying to sway public opinion of me in this thread to gain momentum in your favor. I must of hurt your precious feelings and I apologize right here and now to you. Because I haven't even giving it an after thought.

 

Anyway, Let the discussion continue with Barriers suggestion.

 

[barrier]

I don't know how people can be so deep in the PvP mindset that they can miss how opening up 20 KB protection to every character is going to make major shockwaves in PvE. It would basically eliminate KB on players as an element of the game.  If building for KB protection is so essential to the PvP experience that letting us get so much with no sacrifices qualifies as a QoL improvement, why not do what I suggested on the first page and put KB protection into the PvP resists that every AT gets?

 

There is no PVP mindset here. Every PVPer probably spends more time PVeing than PVPing so "mindset" arguments are just a way to bring tribalism into an argument. (Lol @ PVPers vs. PvEers).

 

The fact is that the change would have minimal repercussions in PVE. I do a ton high-end content on AOE (PVE) builds and I do it with 1 kb io if one at all and no acro. I also put a celerity stealth into sprint to make stealthing content easier. My PVE builds won't change much. I'd basically be getting 1 extra slot. That's a de minimis effect. I don't know how you could argue otherwise.

[DSorrow]

I don't know how people can be so deep in the PvP mindset that they can miss how opening up 20 KB protection to every character is going to make major shockwaves in PvE. It would basically eliminate KB on players as an element of the game.  If building for KB protection is so essential to the PvP experience that letting us get so much with no sacrifices qualifies as a QoL improvement, why not do what I suggested on the first page and put KB protection into the PvP resists that every AT gets?

 

Major shockwaves? More like major hyperbole, in my opinion. I play 100% PvE in this game mostly with extremely optimized builds and I can't even recall ever being knocked back. KB is already basically eliminated with 1 -KB IO you can slot in a variety of powers, and even on tanky ATs with 0 inherent protection, 2 KB IOs will cover you in more than 99% of the content.  Sure, getting to spend that one or two slots on something else would be nice, but I really don't get what you mean by major shockwaves.

 

While I don't have any PvP experience at all, it sounds like adjusting KB mechanics would be a better solution. That said, the proposed solution sounds very effortless to implement and the PvE implications would be minimal.

[srmalloy]

I don't know how people can be so deep in the PvP mindset that they can miss how opening up 20 KB protection to every character is going to make major shockwaves in PvE. It would basically eliminate KB on players as an element of the game.  If building for KB protection is so essential to the PvP experience that letting us get so much with no sacrifices qualifies as a QoL improvement, why not do what I suggested on the first page and put KB protection into the PvP resists that every AT gets?

 

Either that, or create a new travel power PvP IO set that can be slotted into the prestige sprints that give, say, Speed, Speed/End, End, and the Speed IO has a PvP-only effect of giving +4 KB resistance.

[Auroxis]

Not sure what I dislike more about this suggestion. The fact that it makes the -kb stat irrelevant, or that the OP has the audacity to call this a simple "QoL request"

[barrier]

Not sure what I dislike more about this suggestion. The fact that it makes the -kb stat irrelevant, or that the OP has the audacity to call this a simple "QoL request"

 

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game.

[Auroxis]

Not sure what I dislike more about this suggestion. The fact that it makes the -kb stat irrelevant, or that the OP has the audacity to call this a simple "QoL request"

 

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game.

 

"Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection" is wrong, only certain armor sets give high inherent KB protection

 

The fact that you can pack multiple -KB IO's in your build (with either travel powers or slots in defense powers) is a choice, a choice the OP wants to take away for "quality of life".

[barrier]

Not sure what I dislike more about this suggestion. The fact that it makes the -kb stat irrelevant, or that the OP has the audacity to call this a simple "QoL request"

 

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game.

 

"Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection" is wrong, only certain armor sets give high inherent KB protection

 

The fact that you can pack multiple -KB IO's in your build (with either travel powers or slots in defense powers) is a choice, a choice the OP wants to take away for "quality of life".

 

Oh man... It's not a "choice" - read the OP. 41-44kb prot is standard. It's as much of a choice as being a petless mastermind.

 

You do understand that, right?

[BlueDragoon]

To be fair, what can even output this level of knockback, a Forcefield Defender? Can't think of much else.

[barrier]

To be fair, what can even output this level of knockback, a Forcefield Defender? Can't think of much else.

 

* Force Bolt - mag 54, need mag 49 or so protection

* Gale - mag 41, need mag 35 or so protection (interesting note: Gale works funny and will sometimes apply two packets of knockback, which means it'll cut through KB protection on just about any non-squishy)

* Power Push (Defender/Dominator version) - mag 46, need 41

* Power Push (Blaster/Corruptor version) - mag 35, need 31

* Lift/Levitate - mag 35, need 31

 

(I literally have that on a saved note because everyone asks the same question).

[barrier]

 

 

Either that, or create a new travel power PvP IO set that can be slotted into the prestige sprints that give, say, Speed, Speed/End, End, and the Speed IO has a PvP-only effect of giving +4 KB resistance.

 

That's a good suggestion pointing the right way. It wouldn't be a "set" though. That wouldn't solve any issues (we already have BOTZ's and they don't require more than a single IO to be slotted). A PVP-only global IO (single IO, not a set) that slots into the sprints would totally solve the issue. Doubly so if just made free, since it's a PVP-only thing.

[Auroxis]

Not sure what I dislike more about this suggestion. The fact that it makes the -kb stat irrelevant, or that the OP has the audacity to call this a simple "QoL request"

 

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game.

 

"Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection" is wrong, only certain armor sets give high inherent KB protection

 

The fact that you can pack multiple -KB IO's in your build (with either travel powers or slots in defense powers) is a choice, a choice the OP wants to take away for "quality of life".

 

Oh man... It's not a "choice" - read the OP. 41-44kb prot is standard. It's as much of a choice as being a petless mastermind.

 

You do understand that, right?

 

Are you implying that PvP is somehow the standard of the game? And that we should make balance changes causing tons of PvE builds to become legacy builds, just because of the PvP meta?

 

No sorry, I don't think making me spend hours respeccing a bunch of characters just because of a PvP meta is a good idea. I don't think trivializing the benefits of KB protection on armor sets is a good idea. And I definitely don't think trivializing such a change by calling it a "quality of life request" is the way to go.

[barrier]

 

No sorry, I don't think making me spend hours respeccing a bunch of characters just because of a PvP meta is a good idea. I don't think trivializing the benefits of KB protection on armor sets is a good idea. And I definitely don't think trivializing such a change by calling it a "quality of life request" is the way to go.

 

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question.

 

Edit: I'm asking because I have a bunch of PVE-only toons without KB protection armors, I don't see myself changing much at all when it comes to how they're built.

[Auroxis]

 

No sorry, I don't think making me spend hours respeccing a bunch of characters just because of a PvP meta is a good idea. I don't think trivializing the benefits of KB protection on armor sets is a good idea. And I definitely don't think trivializing such a change by calling it a "quality of life request" is the way to go.

 

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question.

 

I have slots chosen for KB protection, powers chosen partially because of KB protection. On multiple level 50 characters.

 

Respeccing takes time to choose the powers again, assign the slots again, and re-organize your whole trays.

 

I'd also have to go through my entire build library (I have about 50 build files) to make the appropriate changes of adding all the KB IO's, removing extra slots/powers and replacing existing IO's.

[barrier]

 

No sorry, I don't think making me spend hours respeccing a bunch of characters just because of a PvP meta is a good idea. I don't think trivializing the benefits of KB protection on armor sets is a good idea. And I definitely don't think trivializing such a change by calling it a "quality of life request" is the way to go.

 

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question.

 

I have slots chosen for KB protection, powers chosen partially because of KB protection. On multiple level 50 characters.

 

Respeccing takes time to choose the powers again, assign the slots again, and re-organize your whole trays.

 

I'd also have to go through my entire build library (I have about 50 build files) to make the appropriate changes of adding all the KB IO's, removing extra slots/powers and replacing existing IO's.

 

I'm not even going to go deep into pointing out that you may in fact be more of an outlier than the median "PVPer" in this game. But let's just leave that aside.

 

How much KB protection are you slotting into those toons to begin with? What power choices would be different? Be specific. That broad response is too broad.  I'm not going to accuse you of being disingenuous, but don't be lazy.