Perks and Flaws

[Ultimo]

You know, many games I've played over the years included a system of perks and flaws.  I always enjoyed that, it let me flesh out some of who the character was, and sometimes added abilities or disadvantages that affected gameplay in interesting, sometimes challenging ways.  The old, original Champions RPG had a system of Disadvantages that represented some of this, too.  There are many things of this sort that comic book characters actually have.  For example:

 

Superman takes damage from Kryptonite (and other effects from different colours), and has no defense against Magic.

Aquaman (and Namor, and other marine characters) needs to be immersed in water periodically, or grow weaker.

 

Batman is extremely wealthy, as is Tony Stark (and lots of other characters)

Many heroes have family or friends who frequently get caught up in things, Aunt May, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Foggy Nelson, etc.

 

I wonder if a system of perks and flaws couldn't be devised to add some interesting character elements to our characters.  Any thoughts?

[Rudra]

The advantage of a pen and paper game over a video game is its adaptability. Extremely so. That said, I'm not against players being able to get flaws or maybe even a few perks for their characters, but let me ask you a few questions:

 

How would being extremely wealthy factor into a game setting like City of Heroes? For instance, our characters can right now be defined as being quadrillionaires if we want. We can claim to own several major corporations if we want. What would that do in the game though if it was something that could be applied to the game as something more than just a bio note?

 

How would being extremely intelligent, be a living calculator, or being an inventor factor into a game setting like City of Heroes? For instance, our characters can right now be defined as being a world renowned inventor, using that to explain where our power armor comes from or our robot followers. What would adding an inventor perk actually do in the game if it was something more than just a note in our bios?

 

As for flaws, how would Dependent NPCs be factored in? (Edit: Remember, every DNPC is a fleshed out character the GM can use for various plot hooks as specifically related to the character with the DNPCs.) Or a Social Limitation like Subject to Orders? How do you factor Dependencies like drug addiction, especially for characters that need to take specific drugs to use their abilities? Or Uncontrolled powers that the GM gets to decide when and if they work?

 

So basically, I am asking what specifically you are looking for in the way of perks and flaws, and how they would interact with the game beyond just being a blurb in our bios.

 

Edit again: And why is this thread giving me a sense of deja vu?

 

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[Steampunkette]

For RP purposes, perks and flaws add character depth.

 

For MMORPG Mechanics, perks and flaws wildly skew game balance unless carefully implemented and maintained. And every perk and flaw creates another layer of permutations on what a character can be and do in the end.

 

"My character has the weakness to magic flaw. That's why I only run Council missions at high end so I get all my perks and none of my flaws" would be a really common sort of playstyle, too.

[El D]

The main issue with any system like this is that most of it can already be accomplished in-game. You make a Fire Armor character? They're weak to Ice. You make Invulnerability? Weak to Psychic. Bespoke weaknesses beyond the scope of powersets or archetypes - like needing to be in-contact with water or consume a magic item per day or whatever - can be roleplayed out. The same goes with various NPC connections. Your character has a special relationship with an NPC? You can write whatever AE arc you want to run for it. Your character owns a bunch of corporations? Slap them in a fancy suit at the Tailor and make fitting a supergroup base (and play the market so you have a lot of inf).

 

Codifying these with a system would make the free-form DIY approach CoH already allows much, much narrower, as I don't imagine any mechanic-based arrangement would allow for the sheer amount of facets some people put into their characters. How many drawbacks or perks would even be allowed per character, and how many of one would be required to earn one of the other? What exact benefits would they even provide that the combination of costume options, badges, IOs, AE, and base building doesn't cover?

Edited April 17 by El D

[biostem]

This thread reminds me of my favorite flaw & perk from GURPS:  Weirdness magnet & weirdness censor, (I may have the names incorrect), but basically one caused strange things to happen around you, and the other caused you to not react negatively to those occurrences...

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I wonder if a system of perks and flaws couldn't be devised to add some interesting character elements to our characters.  Any thoughts?

 

I think this would be too difficult to implement, but perhaps make a bigger list of the Perks and Dis-ADs (disadvantages) that you would like to implement and explain how they would function in the game.

 

I'm also assuming that any Perks that you characters have would have to be equalized out with a Dis-ADs.

 

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

The old, original Champions RPG had a system of Disadvantages that represented some of this, too.

 

Are you talking out the "old, original" Champions game by NCSoft or what the kids call these days a "tabletop" game?

 

The Champion system even up through what some people call the BBB was every intensive and pretty much complete as far as comic book genre was concerned at the time.

 

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Superman takes damage from Kryptonite (and other effects from different colours), and has no defense against Magic.

 

I would say that this is already worked into Khelidans but it has been massively nerfed because this kind of thing annoyed so many players.

 

3 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Aquaman (and Namor, and other marine characters) needs to be immersed in water periodically, or grow weaker.

 

We can't even get a swimming power set or go under water (except for those couple of random places)

 

3 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Batman is extremely wealthy, as is Tony Stark (and lots of other characters)

 

Yeah. I have access to the /ah. I make stuff like Tony Stark, and I manipulate/profit from stuff like Bruce Wayne on the stock market.

 

3 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Many heroes have family or friends who frequently get caught up in things, Aunt May, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Foggy Nelson, etc.

 

What is the punishment for having one of these getting killed/hospitalized in-game?

Do you get special timed missions that just get dropped on you all of a sudden (randomly) that require you have to drop what you are doing to go rescue them?

If not, how much of a Disadvantage is it?

Are you not allowed to use your super powers in front of them?

 

I think something like a hunted would be archetype based. You get it and, based on the level/number of hunted taken, the level and frequency that the hunted group based on your archetype shows up increases.

But how does that work? Do they only attack you on the "street"? Can they attack you mid door-mission? Can they attack you in your base? Can they attack you in the Pocket D (I'm assuming they can't because it is the Pocket D)?

 

Bring up more of what you would like to see so we can try to post through it.

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, biostem said:

This thread reminds me of my favorite flaw & perk from GURPS:  Weirdness magnet & weirdness censor, (I may have the names incorrect), but basically one caused strange things to happen around you, and the other caused you to not react negatively to those occurrences...

Weirdness Magnet and Unfazeable from GURPS Supers. With Unfazeable having the description "The stereotypical Maine Yankee or English butler has this advantage."

 

(Edit: Though Weirdness Magnet could be over the top in the hands of some GMs. Like an alien invasion just to get to your house to knock on your door and ask you to turn down your music because they are trying to sleep or ask you to participate in the tricentennial Alpha Centauri wollor survey. What's a wollor? Not sure. I could never get the aliens to give an english explanation.)

 

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

How would being extremely intelligent, be a living calculator, or being an inventor factor into a game setting like City of Heroes?

 

This I already see worked into the game through the Leadership pool.

 

 

[TheMoneyMaker]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

How would being extremely wealthy factor into a game setting like City of Heroes? For instance, our characters can right now be defined as being quadrillionaires if we want. We can claim to own several major corporations if we want. What would that do in the game though if it was something that could be applied to the game as something more than just a bio note?

Funny you should mention that, as I'm the owner of all the Infront Steakhouse franchises throughout the city, and it's made me horrendously wealthy......like take all that quadrillionaires combined, and I'm 100x richer. And I'm not just the owner, I'm also a client.

[arcane]

Your powersets and your build determine your strengths and weaknesses, and I’m not really seeing a reason to introduce an entirely new system on top of that.

[Ultimo]

I'm envisioning perks being handled somewhat like Day Jobs.  Being rich might give players a small bonus to influence gains.  A DNPC (your Champions chops are showing) might appear in random missions as an objective (ie. rescue the NPC) for some kind of minor bonus... or alternatively, to avoid a minor penalty.

 

You could do without them, because taking a perk would require a commensurate flaw to "pay" for it.

 

I'm not suggesting anything gamebreaking, just thinking it's something that might be fun.

[FrozenSolid]

One way I could see a DNPC kind of working is them occasionally giving an extra rewarding radio/newspaper styled mission, with a penalty for declining.

Storywise it could be stuff like them learning about something happening and passing you the info or needing the occasional rescue from kidnappers.

[Psyonico]

On 4/16/2025 at 8:16 PM, Steampunkette said:

My character has the weakness to magic flaw. That's why I only run Council missions at high end so I get all my perks and none of my flaws"

Ah, so *that’s* the reason I see so many level 50 council teams running!