Legendary 45% softcap... True/False/Sometimes/BS?

[shortguy on indom]

• LEGENDARY 45% SOFTCAP:
• THIS IS WHERE IT ALL BEGINS...
• Defense Effectiveness - Paragon Wiki Archive
• the whys and why nots...

[Troo]

but..

 

On 5/12/2025 at 5:15 PM, shortguy on indom said:

• 45% IS ABSOLUTELY NADA.

 

🙂 

[shortguy on indom]

19 minutes ago, Troo said:

but..

 

 

🙂 

 

• WILL GET TO THAT.
• THE SUSPENSE?  ☺️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arcane]

The soft cap is real but mostly a noob trap tbh

[Snarky]

This is a complex game.  Reducing the logic to a bumper sticker is like trying to explain all of Calculus in 5 words.  You are either a genius speaking to another incredibly intuitive genius.  Or...  

 

[Snokle]

45 minutes ago, arcane said:

The soft cap is real but mostly a noob trap tbh

 

It is a noob and a boob trap.

Edited yesterday at 03:29 PM by Snokle

[shortguy on indom]

• AGREE WITH THE TRAP COMMENTS MYSELF BUT MAYBE FOR OTHER REASONS.  HAS ITS PLACE AS A WAY AS AN ESTABLISHED WAY TO PLAY FOR SOME.  ONCE THE PERCIEVED BENIFITS ARE UNWRAPPED... MAYBE MORE OR MAYBE LESS WILL BUILD WITH THIS STRATEGY IN MIND.

[MoonSheep]

there was a similar thread recently, pasting below for visibility

 

my summary thoughts:

- the penalty for dying is so minimal that  it’s usually not worth going overboard building for defense unless you’re a tank

- inspirations are so easy to get hold of that unless you’re a roleplayer who wants to do a self survival challenge, just pop the insps

- wait for the tank or scrapper to take the aggro, then jump in

 

[Maelwys]

Planning a build is almost always an exercise in compromising (A, B, or C... pick any two!).

Pinpointing the level where adding "more recovery" or "more global recharge" becomes largely irrelevant is fairly straightforward. However the same isn't true for damage output or damage mitigation; as that'll depend on the content you're doing. If someone is choosing to chase Damage Resistance; then going over the hardcap for their AT (75%, 85% or 90%) largely won't matter unless they're up against resistance debuffs (in which case they'll want 100%). And if someone is choosing to chase Defense; then going over the softcap for the content they're doing (e.g. 45% or 59%) largely won't matter unless they're up against defense debuffs (in which case Debuff resistance and/or a sizable Defence buffer becomes useful).

For most toons; running at 45% Defence and/or 90% Resistance constantly is going to be major overkill. The vast majority of my own characters don't bother with either; although most will have a means of situationally temporarily raising their survivability via short-duration clicky powers. IMO the only ones that actually need maximum survivability will be toons that know they'll be up against lots of incoming damage and unable to take other steps to avoid/mitigate it... such as AE Farmers or dedicated self-sufficient "I don't need no stinking teammate assistance" Tankers.

[Championess]

30 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

- the penalty for dying is so minimal that  it’s usually not worth going overboard building for defense unless you’re a tank

 

And this is what makes you the 3rd best dommie.  The best know that when they log in they want to go into domination and never want to be out of it until they log off.  Dieing is antithetical to that.  Building in defenses on a dom can only be gravy young one.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

And this is what makes you the 3rd best dommie.  The best know that when they log in they want to go into domination and never want to be out of it until they log off.  Dieing is antithetical to that.  Building in defenses on a dom can only be gravy young one.

Eh. No. Having to rebuild Domination once or twice is waaay better than having anemic offenses. Especially if you have a Snipe you can interrupt to build Domination in 2 seconds.

[Championess]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

Eh. No. Having to rebuild Domination once or twice is waaay better than having anemic offenses. Especially if you have a Snipe you can interrupt to build Domination in 2 seconds.

 

Who says I'd sacrifice offense, control or recharge?  Cover those bases then scoop up some defenses since good ones are typically one more set bonus away.

Edited yesterday at 05:45 PM by Championess

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I think it's very easy to get hungup on a particular number whether it's the defense softcap, perma-hasten or most other terms that get thrown around. While there are a handful of exceptions (e.g. Perma-Dom) in many cases you don't need to worry to much about hitting some arbitrary number for general play. For team play in particular there tends to be so many buffs getting thrown around that you set bonuses start being irrelevant anyway but even for solo play you can still play and have fun with a "good enough" build.

 

At the end of the day build your character the way you want to and don't judge others for how they choose to build their character (or at least don't judge them out loud, if you make your Empath a pure healer I am going to judge you).

[TheMoneyMaker]

53 minutes ago, Championess said:

Building in defenses on a dom can only be gravy young one.

Gravy is good

[Mopery]

Always depends on what you want to do with it.

Almost all of my builds were made with Exemplar in mind, but they do alright on iTrials and 4-Star Aeon runs. Some builds run Scorpion Shield to get 45% to S/L/E(sometimes Ranged/E), because it's just that good and I'm lazy. Being lazy fits my playstyle, and with resistances you have to be sure you have enough health that you don't get one-shotted anyhow, so playing it takes more of my attention. Everybody, even Superman, faceplants every now and then in spite of their builtness.

Edited yesterday at 06:26 PM by Mopery
varmints...

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, Championess said:

 

And this is what makes you the 3rd best dommie.  The best know that when they log in they want to go into domination and never want to be out of it until they log off.  Dieing is antithetical to that.  Building in defenses on a dom can only be gravy young one.

 

3rd from last mate

 

building for defense is a waste of time unless you’re an RPer. isnps are so cheap and readily available that i’d prefer to min/max my build and focus on maximum output

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Championess said:

And this is what makes you the 3rd best dommie. 

 

And this is why you build your throne from the bones of the 1st and 2nd best dommies.

 

 

[Championess]

4 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

3rd from last mate

 

building for defense is a waste of time unless you’re an RPer. isnps are so cheap and readily available that i’d prefer to min/max my build and focus on maximum output

😛

[Snokle]

40 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

3rd from last mate

 

building for defense is a waste of time unless you’re an RPer. isnps are so cheap and readily available that i’d prefer to min/max my build and focus on maximum output

 

It is always true for most AT, but super true for Doms, while perma-dom is a goal for most people and easily achievable (one I usually recommend). I never recommend defence on doms, aside from Epic Res shield as defence is kinda blech, you should be locking everything down and beating stuff to a pulp.

 

This is coming from the advocate of Ice control for Dom, and classic C tier.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Personally I do try to build some defense on my squishy characters but that's because I like to yolo into spawns ahead of the tank so it's useful for keeping me alive.

[arcane]

3 hours ago, Championess said:

 

Who says I'd sacrifice offense, control or recharge?  Cover those bases then scoop up some defenses since good ones are typically one more set bonus away.

If you are pursuing defense bonuses you are inevitably making sacrifices…

[Championess]

52 minutes ago, arcane said:

If you are pursuing defense bonuses you are inevitably making sacrifices…

 

Dominators are pursuing defense powers to slot those Lotg's for their recharge.  Controls are well suited for purple sets since you need them anyways to build on their playstyle plus there's good defense bonuses in those sets. 

 

Your assaults are where you should be getting the offenses you were suggesting I'd be sacrificing on.  As an example my main 3 ST attack chain is proc'd out well along with my Dark Obliteration having 4 procs and my Soul Drain proc'd well.  You'd think I'd be sacrificing recharge/defenses I could build in these powers but no I'm going full offense on the powers I need to maintain offense.

 

Dominators are about being as efficient with your build as can be using an aggressive control offense paired with the defenses you're taking built on subtly with some targeted bonuses.

 

Seeing first hand how well I can do offensively/control wise while maintaining tippytop defenses its hard for me not to come to the conclusion of why not having your cake and eating it too?

Edited yesterday at 10:59 PM by Championess

[Uncle Shags]

17 minutes ago, Championess said:

Seeing first hand how well I can do

Hold on...  This, and the"3rd Best" thing is a joke, right? 

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

If you are pursuing defense bonuses you are inevitably making sacrifices…

Things like always and inevitably are almost always not true sometimes.

[Maelwys]

17 minutes ago, Championess said:

Seeing first hand how well I can do offensively/control wise while maintaining tippytop defenses its hard for me to come to the conclusion of why not having your cake and eating it too?

Let's try an explanation of sorts then...

So you've got a high-Defense Permadom with a procced out ST attack chain?

Great.

But you've stated above that this toon is sourcing at least some of their defense via set bonuses from using Purple sets in your Control Powerset abilities... which means that those abilities could potentially be dealing more damage with the same level of Control Duration if you had frankenslotted them with procs and HOs instead of using those sets. Possibly even whilst maintaining Permadom; depending on the sets in question. So by definition your Dominator build has sacrificed additional damage in exchange for additional defence.

I'm not saying that's not a worthwhile sacrifice (because I do exactly that sort of thing myself on many toons... and in many cases what I'm getting is far more valuable to me than whatever I'm giving up!) merely drawing attention to the fact that building an efficient powerful toon is a balancing act. Because to raise a toon's overall performance you will almost always have to give up some of its potential in more specific areas (and obviously the trick is to pick areas that you don't personally place much worth in - if you have a min/maxed ST attack chain already then more ST damage output will be mostly irrelevant to you!)

Most of my own Doms end up with at least ~15% Defense; because stuff like Combat Jumping and Maneuvers and the two +3% Def Globals are low hanging fruit... but I rarely intentionally push it higher (unless I opt for a Defense based Epic rather than a Resistance one; which is almost never!) because achieving Permadom + Strong Controls + Strong Single Target Damage Output + Strong AOE Damage output simply doesn't leave me enough wiggle room on most builds.