Focused Feedback: Enemy Group - Blackwing Industries

[The Curator]

•  Critters with Excelsion armor given a new on-hit visual FX shield.

 

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New Enemy Group: Blackwing Industries

• Now available in Architect Entertainment!

 These men & women ensure that the Kallisti Wharf citizenry remain protected from super threats! 

Who Are They?

• Blackwing Industries is a private military company that has been contracted by Emil Christie to replace the Paragon Police in protecting Kallisti Wharf. The branch of their company that is responsible for this task is known as: P.E.A.C.E. (Police Emergency Action & Crisis Engagement).
• They've been specially-trained and armed with cutting-edge technology to excel in suppressing meta human threats! These men & women are dedicated to maintaining peace and order in the zone that is their jurisdiction.

 

What Can They Do?

• Most Blackwing Industries personnel are decked out in the group's trademarked Excelsion armor, nano-carbon kinetic dampening interlocking hex plates. This armor gives them resistance to conventional weaponry, but also leaves them vulnerable to Toxic!
• Most of the group gets access to more attacks when below 75% HP!

 

• The group deals a variety of damage types, however the most notable are:
  • Range: Cold/Toxic (major), Fire/Psionic (minor)
  • Melee: Smashing/Energy (major), Lethal/Fire/Toxic (minor)
  • AoE: Fire/Psionic (major), Cold (minor)

 

The following Blackwing Industries critters are noteworthy threats for their powers and behaviors! (Spoilers for those who wish to fight them blind!) This is only a partial list, detailing some parts of the enemy group's roster:

Spoiler

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P.E.A.C.E. Medic (Lieutenant)

Armed in red/white with warp packs, these teleporting medics keep Blackwing personnel healthy. Prone to dropping Triage Beacons and zipping away, they try to avoid direct combat while also keeping their allies supported.

 

Best to target them early!

 

 Target the white & red or you might end up black & blue! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Phantom (Lieutenant)

Armed in purple with impervium katanas, these operatives can see through stealth with specular implants in their eyes.

 

Watch out, they will utilize a particularly dangerous Assassin's Strike combo when cornered!

 

 You may not see them, but they can definitely see you! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Ballistier (Boss)

Boasting a pair of rocket boots and jet wings, these airborne agents will rain down a variety of grenades, creating damage and debuff patches players will have to avoid.

 

Counters melee threats with thruster-boosted kicks!

 

 Really putting the 'wing' in Blackwing! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Commander (Boss)

These armored tanks boast distinctive rounded shoulder pads and are fully decked out head-to-toe in Excelsion body armor. They utilize the only weaponized application of the Excelsion system, compressing kinetic energy into an array of deadly blows.

 

Commander's lead the charge and will zip into the fray with a Burst of Speed!

 

 These guys are straight-up fighters, tough with no tricks! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Coordinator (Boss)

The most enigmatic operatives amongst Blackwing's ranks, the Coordinators are bionic psychics who link P.E.A.C.E. squads together mentally, granting them shared senses mentally, creating their second-to-none coordination on the field.

 

These support units will prefer to stay in the back lines and buff their team. When engaged, they can direct nearby Blackwing personnel to target a specific player!

 

 Mentally-linked Blackwing agents? Dangerous! Take these guys out quick! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Neutralizer (Elite Boss)

These Elite Bosses are without a doubt, the most dangerous of Blackwing Industries' P.E.A.C.E. units. The Neutralizer carries back-mounted heavy weapons and suppressive cannons that are designed to (You guessed it!) neutralize superhuman targets.

 

Fortunately, due to prohibitive costs, these operatives are not widespread in deployment.

 

 If Blackwing is sending these guys into the field, you've been deemed a top level threat! 

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P.E.A.C.E. Keeper (???)

There are rumors that Blackwing Industries has an even more impressive mobile weapon platform, but details on it have been scarce. If the group feels like they're losing their control over Kallisti Wharf, they might be forced to deploy their secret weapon!

 

 

 

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[Vanden]

P.E.A.C.E. Neutralizer's feet hover a few inches off the ground for some reason.

[decomposey]

I am fighting a group.

My resist is down 66% from Sonic Grenade and Rib Cracker stacking

My Def is down 30% from Sting of the Wasp, Flashing Steel, Gamblers Cut

Something, I haven't been able to determine what yet, just made the incarnate heal I fired return no health to me.

And a second group from around the corner that isn't even in my line of sight just aggroed.

Their medic just healed the guy I was trying to focus down. I think. I can't tell, I just lost my target because I was hit with a confuse effect.

 

So if the goal was to design the new group as a difficult challenge for level 50+++ overbuilt post incarnate players with other challenge left in the game then it works. But anyone regular level 50 or lower is gonna have a bad time.

 

[KaizenSoze]

38 minutes ago, decomposey said:

I am fighting a group.

My resist is down 66% from Sonic Grenade and Rib Cracker stacking

My Def is down 30% from Sting of the Wasp, Flashing Steel, Gamblers Cut

Something, I haven't been able to determine what yet, just made the incarnate heal I fired return no health to me.

And a second group from around the corner that isn't even in my line of sight just aggroed.

Their medic just healed the guy I was trying to focus down. I think. I can't tell, I just lost my target because I was hit with a confuse effect.

 

So if the goal was to design the new group as a difficult challenge for level 50+++ overbuilt post incarnate players with other challenge left in the game then it works. But anyone regular level 50 or lower is gonna have a bad time.

 

BWI is rather nasty. It's was a bit of a shock when I first fought them. 

 

My guess is that you just took a bit hit just as you healed.
Forgot the Phantoms have a -heal debuff on some of their attacks.

What build are you using and what difficultly?

Edited Tuesday at 10:35 PM by KaizenSoze

[decomposey]

Electric armor tanker, full incarnates, multiple millions in IOs, hence why the massive res debuffs are a concern. Like 66% percent total debuff happens in +4x8, in +1 the smaller scaling reduces it to only 50%, which is still insanely high when you are also getting hit with stacking -def debuffs, stacking status resist debuffs, and status effects.

 

I didn't take a hit that did as much damage as I healed in one shot, because I'd have seen a chunk of damage that large in the combat log, it would have had to be at least 500+ damage if not more to cancel the entire heal.

[4th.survivor]

A tanker friend and I ran two back to back Khallisti bank heists at both high and mid difficulty.

The BWI/PEACE keepers are challenging, which I believe was a goal (check for that). The power FX on many of the powers are quite cool, I like the blue energy effects and those are reminiscent of Resistance tech. That's about where the fun ended for me.

I am not opposed to things being difficult for the sake of difficulty, but the things I disliked about them revolve around how the group feels to fight:

There is a lot of "random powers go!" at play here,

Spoiler

with bullets that are made of icicles and energy projecting forcefields and teleporting medics who are using both empathy and rally beacon and regular joes laying landmines (constantly, at their own feet) and kung fu grenadiers that also hang on to large grenade launchers while performing their jetpack kicks and psychics who break aggro and ninja cops

and and and...

It feels like they're almost there, but thematically they are a mess. Something that could have unified them would have been the cool hex-grid energy shields/armor and a few interesting mob types, something like a 50 version of the Praetorian Police combo'd with the resistance and how those units had tech that brought their looks together while also making players wish we could have energy melee that looked that cool or guns that shot cool blue blaster bolts like that (fighting both those groups -feels- very cohesive). But the energy panels on the PEACE keepers armor feels quickly lost as each mob type more or less does its own thing, instead serving as visual justification to explain how they're also super hard to kill/high resistance, despite looking flimsier in their skinny tactical gear and fashionable hairdos as opposed to the chunky looks of comparably tough/high resist critters (Crey Tanks, Freakshow). @Cobalt Arachne some of your stuff is great but these could look neater, imo, and the powersets they deploy against the player feel like they're using a smattering of random powersets that anything cohesive. The other tech/gadget groups may not offer the challenge these do, but they feel fun to fight where the PEACE keepers do not.

I know a lot of the looks of older CoX groups are dated by now and we have the means and tech here to add some cool new FX and make groups that challenge the modern incarnate, but these ones could desperately use a pass for something like verisimilitude. These guys will always be fanon, imo. But who knows, perhaps they will grow on the playerbase.

Edited Tuesday at 11:08 PM by 4th.survivor

[decomposey]

So there is a -heal debuff as well, I figured as much.  And since all these debuffs are coming from separate enemies its not like I can just target them like a Sapper. I get the idea of making it hard, and making it so people have to vary their targets according to their play style, but it seems like if that play style is 'be a tanker' over 'be a blaster' then there isn't really adjustment that can be done to mitigate the packs targeting every recourse you could take to survive.

 

Unless that is explicitly the goal, then its possible either the strength of the debuffs or the number of variations of them may need another pass.

[KaizenSoze]

Blackwing is available to look up on City of Data. Which is how I found the -heal debuff.
https://cod.uberguy.net/html/category.html?pcat=blackwingindustries

 

My priorities are shield drone, medic, phantom, then the bosses.

[ViridianDev]

2 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Blackwing is available to look up on City of Data. Which is how I found the -heal debuff.
https://cod.uberguy.net/html/category.html?pcat=blackwingindustries

 

Important caveat; the Blackwing numbers in City of Data are not reflective of the actual numbers on Open Beta/Brainstorm. A lot of mechanics are the same, but the values as seen in CoD should not be taken as gospel.

[KaizenSoze]

I have been testing against them for awhile. I only have 2-3 characters that can solo them at 4x8. Not easily, just possible.

 

Most people will need to drop difficultly to solo them. No shame in that, they are supposed to be very hard.

 

Once, you have fought them a few times they do get "easier". Waiting to see how a team does against them.

[Seed22]

I can solo them pretty well at +4×8 on a Pyro/Ice Dom, and probably would steamroll +1-3×8 on anything else save my 4 star kitted Cold/Ice and blasters(who are also 4 star kitted).

 

I will say just because I solo them well does not mean I am mindlessly running in. Not at all. With how spawns happen to be, pulling is your best option as the maps are very deceptive in KW. That one mob may look like a regular x8 mob but it's really 2 or even maybe 3!

 

Don't be ashamed to pull.  I usually pull one group of x8 at a time and mow em down pretty swiftly then move to pull another.

 

Also this is NOT HM. With that in mind, insp are your friend. Without insp, at +4×8 these mobs are very difficult to tackle head on, but with insp they are as trivial as the rest of the game. Barrier and melee core also will help.

 

The secret sauce to make this group as trivial as everything else in this game is to simply use your tools.

Edited Wednesday at 01:59 PM by Seed22

[Outback]

Feedback on BWI:

Setting aside opinions about their powers and debuffs and mechanics here. 
 

It has been made clear that the goal from the GMs for BWI is to harken to old school WoW tactics. Pull the mobs, select your targets based off what they do and how it affects your team comps. 
 

If that is the goal, then they need to be more visually identifiable and be able to be IDed quickly. It’s obvious the team knows this and have tried to do this. I think it was a good attempt but needs further work. 
 

The guys with the wings? Great. Those are obvious. The others? Not so much. At a glance, while fighting them, they all look like black armor wearing humanoids with blue or sometimes purple glowing energy. Some have guns. Some have swords. But in a team comp with all our own busy effects? It’s been tricky. The minions add to the clutter. 
 

I have experience working for an athletic clothing and equipment company where they trained us on color visualization and recognition. Not the same exact thing here, but it’s similar enough to be able to say this confidently. I think the different units of the BWI could be given cohesive looks while still giving specific enemies visual markers one can recognize at a glance. 
 

Yes, one could memorize all the names, and change their settings to have enemy name tags always on instead of hovering (like I do most of the time, to save clutter on my screen). Heck, we could all use targeting macros like people used to do (and still do) with Malta Sappers. However…

Research has shown that color identification helps many people with memorization. On top of that, this is City of Heroes. Not WoW. Writing macros like that is asking a bit much. 
 

I plan on capturing screenshots to help showcase my point when I can. Is anyone else feeling similarly about this? 

 
- @Outback / @Monster Truck (Main)

Edited Wednesday at 05:16 PM by Outback

[FupDup]

14 minutes ago, Outback said:

Feedback on BWI:

Setting aside opinions about their powers and debuffs and mechanics here. 
 

It has been made clear that the goal from the GMs for BWI is to harken to old school WoW tactics. Pull the mobs, select your targets based off what they do and how it affects your team comps. 
 

If that is the goal, then they need to be more visually identifiable and be able to be IDed quickly. It’s obvious the team knows this and have tried to do this. I think it was a good attempt but needs further work. 
 

The guys with the wings? Great. Those are obvious. The others? Not so much. At a glance, while fighting them, they all look like black armor wearing humanoids with blue glowing energy. Some have guns. Some have swords. But in a team comp with all our own busy effects? It’s been tricky. 
 

I have experience working for an athletic clothing and equipment company where they trained us on color visualization and recognition. Not the same exact thing here, but it’s similar enough to be able to say this confidently. I think the different units of the BWI could be given cohesive looks while still giving specific enemies visual markers one can recognize at a glance. 
 

Yes, one could memorize all the names, and change their settings to have enemy name tags always on instead of hovering (like I do most of the time, to save clutter on my screen). Heck, we could all use targeting macros like people used to do (and still do) with Malta Sappers. However…

Research has shown that color identification helps many people with memorization. On top of that, this is City of Heroes. Not WoW. Writing macros like that is asking a bit much. 
 

I plan on capturing screenshots to help showcase my point when I can. Is anyone else feeling similarly about this? 

 
- @Outback / @Monster Truck (Main)

Perhaps the blue glowy bits could be different colors on each type of agent to make them stand out more, while keeping black as the main uniform color to show that they’re organized. 

[Outback]

2 hours ago, FupDup said:

Perhaps the blue glowy bits could be different colors on each type of agent to make them stand out more, while keeping black as the main uniform color to show that they’re organized. 

 As long as it doesn’t look too sunshine and rainbows. Maybe a range from teal to dark blue? A few distinctive armor sets? Choosing black as and primary AND secondary color really makes things merge together. Which works well when you’re trying to look cohesive but is easy to overdo. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:06 PM by Outback

[Cobalt Arachne]

4 hours ago, Outback said:

 As long as it doesn’t look too sunshine and rainbows. Maybe a range from teal to dark blue? A few distinctive armor sets? Choosing black as and primary AND secondary color really makes things merge together. Which works well when you’re trying to look cohesive but is easy to overdo. 

Hmm... It's not hard to tweak them.
Which specific Blackwing enemies do you feel currently warrant immediate identification due to their threat level but currently don't have an outfit that makes it easy to do so?

The PEACE Phantom LT is the only one that immediately comes to mind... The bosses and medic should be easier to tell apart.

Otherwise, the single PEACE Engineer per spawn who looks like all the other minions was specifically designed to require ID'ing them before you pull, so their drone summon can be interrupted (works the exact same way as Sky Raider Engineers).

[Outback]

17 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

Hmm... It's not hard to tweak them.
Which specific Blackwing enemies do you feel currently warrant immediate identification due to their threat level but currently don't have an outfit that makes it easy to do so?

The PEACE Phantom LT is the only one that immediately comes to mind... The bosses and medic should be easier to tell apart.

Otherwise, the single PEACE Engineer per spawn who looks like all the other minions was specifically designed to require ID'ing them before you pull, so their drone summon can be interrupted (works the exact same way as Sky Raider Engineers).

 

First off, I think you need to focus on color recognition by theme, not mechanical difficulty. BWI already seem to have been designed for difficulty of mechanics first, the theme second.
Secondly, when considering color recognition, you should also take different lights and backgrounds into account. But, to answer your question:

The Medic has their teleport backpack, which is a visual recognition. It glows blue, which matches all the glowing blue goggles and hexes, and they are wearing dark red. Studies have shown that in the dark, red is the hardest color to see at a distance. It is called scotopic vision, with our eyes seeing bright greens, whites, and blues first. Up close, these guys stand out, but from a distance… such as the distance you want us to be when pulling these enemies for aggro… if you’re in a darker map or against a darker background, you won’t see these dark red wearing, blue glowing dot backed Medics until you are mid-fight. The Wharf, especially the hero side, has huge areas where the ground is bright white. When the ground and background go darker and the light is darker, things change.

But do you pick another color? Maybe. Or – don’t be afraid to go a shade or two brighter. Or better yet, go a shade or two brighter on certain aspects. Perhaps their gloves? Or change the glowing backpacks to a distinctive color, like… red? It doesn’t have to be everything. Give them something, one thing, that POPS from render distance.

A story that was shared with me once was a CIA training experiment in which agents were tasked with entering a room, talking to people, leaving, and not to have their appearance remembered. The best result was a man who looked plain, acted plain, and wore plain clothing except for a pair of white Converse sneakers he painted purple. All that could be remembered of him was his shoes, because people looked down at them and less at his face more often than others. Give the Medics, or all the key critters, something to help people remember, quickly, from a distance. Even if it’s that one thing. ESPECIALLY if it’s that one thing. You aren’t going to get as many different silhouettes like you did with the Freakloks.

The Phantom has a similar issue. The dark purple shows up great against the white backgrounds of the Crey Towers area, but it’s metallic sheen makes the angle matter too. I mean, sure, they’re invisible, but perhaps they can have their goggles glow more purple? The purple has the same issue as the red for the Medics, it turns black at specific angles and environments. Maybe a purple laser sword? I am always one for laser swords.

The Commanders have the bigger shoulder pauldrons, but they’re still black on black on black. Make them a badge of rank – blue, gold, gold-rimmed, or silver! Silver, polished metal, looks high tech – and if they’re the leaders, they’re going to need to be the ones most easily seen in a fight. Make those pauldron’s stand out! Special Forces officers sometimes wear radically different colored berets, like maroon against army greens.

Having the Engineer hidden amongst the others is… asking too much. We’re already going 0-60 here when it comes to difficulty and what you’re asking us to do compared to other minion groups. There is no need to make it go 0-100. Give them a marker. A backpack. Something!

Lastly, maybe most importantly, I love the fact that many of the minions for BWI wear shirts and not armor. Sunglasses, not goggles. I noticed that even some of the minions have debuffs, -heal debuffs right? Well, they are the ones that also wear the same glowing blue goggles that make them blend in with the others. Maybe you could make it more of a greenish blue glow? Or render those toxic firing guns with greenish tints? For those minions, in particular. In the light, our eyes see green better than any colors at an average range (orange overtakes it at a distance). In the dark, that preference switches to yellow. I really think the -heal debuffers should have a more clear indicator. Even if they are minions. Or especially if they’re minions. 
 

However, I get the sense you are going from a red to blue shift for the color scheme, with purples in-between. The Coordinators are a good starting point at least. Their tech stands out. Which is good, because psionic damage has always been tricky for many builds. I get the sense you were going for a colder color pallet, from reds to purples to blues? The pink fits. 

Overall, the pieces are there, but I think with THIS MANY DIFFERENT CRITICAL DEBUFFS AND TARGETS, you’re going to have to sacrifice absolute cohesiveness for making them more recognizable. The -heal, -def, and -res debuffs in particular are brutal.

 

- @Monster Truck (Main) / @Outback

 

Edited Thursday at 03:24 PM by Outback

[ExeErdna]

I like this whole theme that BWI are former Syndicate, IDF and some Seers wrapped into a new group. They're a brutal group you do not want to rush into even as a tanker

[Cobalt Arachne]

So! I'm thinking the following visuals for the most dangerous/high priority members of the Blackwing crew?

The Phantoms have had their purple-ness bulked up and given green eyes to make them stand out.
Then Medics, Phantoms, Ballistiers, Commanders, Coordinators, and Neutralizers will have distinct shoulder pad coloration to differentiate them more easily.

Take a look below, let me know if we're feeling like this is enough to make them feel more distinct for Build 3. 🙂 

Spoiler

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P.E.A.C.E. Phantom (Green) - Distinct green/green eyes because they see through stealth. Night vision! Or something!

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P.E.A.C.E. Coordinator (Violet) - Violet for psychic! With their data field FX and psychic bubble turned-on, they shouldn't be hard to identify.

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P.E.A.C.E. Commander (Blue) - Chrome + colored shoulder pads make them VERY noticeable now.

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P.E.A.C.E. Medic (Red) - More red for the red/white; With their warp packs, they are very identifiable I think.

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P.E.A.C.E. Ballistier (Yellow) - Bumble bee aerial attack units? With their wing packs and always-on jet boots, they shouldn't be hard to spot.

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P.E.A.C.E. Neutralizer (Orange) - The more subtle color, but their giant weapons pack is NOT subtle.

 

[Vanden]

Is it a big hassle to change the color of their glowing hex armor per mob?

[Cobalt Arachne]

19 hours ago, Vanden said:

Is it a big hassle to change the color of their glowing hex armor per mob?

No, but I don't want to change that part because it's a unifying visual element I like; If they all are very distinctly different colors they stop feeling like a uniformed unit of the same force.

I liked the suggestion somebody made for arm band coloration, so that's what I went with.

[StarkWhite]

Personally I really like the colored arm bands/shoulders idea, for some reason it's giving me a Starfleet uniform feel and I'm not quite sure why but I'm not mad about it.

[High_Beam]

Do the shield generators they deploy count for the badge like the Sky Raiders ones?

[StarkWhite]

@Cobalt Arachne

Having thought about it a bit more, suggestions for a bit more color coding, based on how the Phantom and Commander have their signature colors on their goggles and shoulder pads, respectively.

* Medic - as I mentioned on Discord, maybe a red glow for the teleport pack instead of white
* Ballistier - some yellow on the wings?
* Neutralizer - maybe some orange on the weapons pack if possible, or maybe orange weapon effects

The Coordinator is the least accessorized, but as you mention the FX already kind of make them stand out.

[Outback]

17 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

So! I'm thinking the following visuals for the most dangerous/high priority members of the Blackwing crew?

The Phantoms have had their purple-ness bulked up and given green eyes to make them stand out.
Then Medics, Phantoms, Ballistiers, Commanders, Coordinators, and Neutralizers will have distinct shoulder pad coloration to differentiate them more easily.

Take a look below, let me know if we're feeling like this is enough to make them feel more distinct for Build 3. 🙂 

  Hide contents

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P.E.A.C.E. Phantom (Green) - Distinct green/green eyes because they see through stealth. Night vision! Or something!

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P.E.A.C.E. Coordinator (Violet) - Violet for psychic! With their data field FX and psychic bubble turned-on, they shouldn't be hard to identify.

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P.E.A.C.E. Commander (Blue) - the colored shoulder pads make them VERY noticeable now.

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P.E.A.C.E. Medic (Red) - More red for the red/white; With their warp packs, they are very identifiable I think.

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P.E.A.C.E. Ballistier (Yellow) - Bumble bee aerial attack units? With their wing packs and always-on jet boots, they shouldn't be hard to spot.

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P.E.A.C.E. Neutralizer (Orange) - The more subtle color, but their giant weapons pack is NOT subtle.

 

This is a great direction, yes! Very reminiscent of Crey Power Tanks! I think the changes to the Phantoms and Commanders are the best so far. The Phantoms, especially, perfect change. If anything, I would look into the following:

 

Would making the blue pauldrons of the commander similar to, but not necessarily exact as, the more cyan tones of the hexagon tech? By themselves it might look better but in a group it might not. Could blend in and defeat the purpose. Try that out, see what you think?

 

Do you think the yellow of the Ballister is necessary? The wing and flying along are pretty tell tale, but I do like the intent there. Having assigned rank colors is good though, I like it.
 

Can the glowing of the teleport packs of the Medics also be red? If not, well, I think that change is better than before! 
 

The giant pack on the Neutralizers are definitely going to be a good visual aid. If I miss those then that’s a me problem. 

Edited yesterday at 03:10 PM by Outback

[ExeErdna]

A part of me likes them being uniform in a way. BWI are the best of some really tough groups. They clearly got some former Seers(Widows), IDF, and Syndicate members. They're uniform and super deadly to rush into like Malta. Seeing a group use teamwork and are more than simply reactive. Once they notice you and you're flatfooted it's over even for Tankers.

Are we gonna see a BWI version of Praetorian Duray in the future? If he's not dead but still that would be a nice call back.